China/Pakistan/India - Was Nehru smarter than Modi?

[Jf Thunder]

Where is this "joining another camp" coming from?

We are doing neither of this. No making our camp and no joining any camp.

China has little or no role to play in South Asia. It should mind it's own business in East Asia where it has issues with all neighbors and claiming entire seas.

well do deal with South Asia, you need good relations with Pakistan, which is a route to south Asia, and i dont see our relations getting very good

 

[Winchester]

The target of Modi's assertiveness will be Pakistan or rather Pakistani civilians living on the border to please his hinduvta fanatic supporters
China is too strong for India unless it is joined by both the U.S and Japan

 

[navtrek]

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.
Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.
Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.
Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.
Read this from Reuters:
"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.

Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.

Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.

Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.

Read this from Reuters:

"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters

Read it again. Military officers in both countries, AND officials in New Delhi, say the violence is escalating because of Modi's "new assertive posture". They agree on that.

And this new assertive posture led to the recent border clash between China and India, as well as India recently killing over 20 civilians in Pakistan, by firing on civilian villages across the Pakistani border with mortar shells.

Is this new attitude the start of a new Forward Policy.... by Modi instead of Nehru? But while Nehru was smart to attack us at our weakest point, when we were collapsing from famine, Modi is now choosing to be assertive at our strongest point (the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day.")

Does that mean Nehru was smarter than Modi? Nehru also managed to keep Pakistan out of the 1962 war, which may not happen this time around. Leading to the two-front conflict that the Indian army has been talking about for the past few years.

Firstly What is Forward policy ?
A policy of creating outposts behind the Chinese troops so as to cut off their supplies and force their return to China.

To be honest i don't consider this as an attack on China because the boundary was not properly demarcated. However this was a very stupid move trying to do this on a disputed boundary without adequate preparation.

Secondly: The Forward Policy was based on an assumption that Chinese would not react with force.

If you read this article you will realize that the Indian side did not feel that they had established outposts in Chinese territory so basically we had not intruded in to China. But there is a disagreement because the boundary is not demarcated.

Ref: The China-India Border War

A statement like India attacked China is very naive because of the following reasons:

1. Indian Army was not even prepared for a war, there were no winter clothing, weapons were outdated, Soldiers who fought were not even acclimatized to the area.
2. The Indian Air Force was never used.
3. The Indian Army was in a complete disarray and lacked coordination.

My understanding is simple this war was more political than anything else. Comparing 1962 with what is happening today is not correct they are two different issues.

Forward policy was debacle but the Chinese side used to their advantage by treating it as an attack on their sovereignty. But in reality we all know that India had no ambitions of attacking a third country and eventually the political system wanted to completely negate the Indian armed forced believing India did not require an Army.

1962 was a political war more than anything else.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

No..... Modi is shifting towards US-Israel-Japan group

Please don't spoil my baniya manoeuvres.

 

[Kompromat]

@Chinese-Dragon - We have discussed it in detail. Modi has to satisfy the extremists who voted for him and want a war with Pakistan at least and want to 'man up' to China at the same time.

We can expect his bravado to repeat when he fails in economics and all of them fancy promises he has made. He cannot win a war against either state , let alone a two front war. His room to maneuver at this particular moment in history is limited to border skirmishes for which he will get a befitting response which won't again be in his favour as he won't be looking the tough prick he promises his extremist right wing supporters to be. Nehru didn't have hundreds of Nuclear and Thermonuclear warheads from China and Pakistan hanging over his head...Modi does!

 

[Gijoe]

Modi is smart that Indian loves him, he mass murder and Indian call Democracy. He a strong beggar that Indian love him to represent the whole Indian. British poured lots of money to develops Indian from starving and avoid begging for some bucks. But don't know why they too dumb to accepted the British help, they like Modi to represent the whole Indian beggar.

 

[monkeynam2]

This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors.～～～～what's the reason

 

[Kaniska]

I am not sure what is aggressiveness mean by you...You occupied Tibet and made your own country...No one questioned...Not because you are morally right...It is because, ultimately, in this power play of international politics, ultimately the land of Tiber is yours as you captured...
In the same vein, India is building roads, schools and infra for the land withing territory which in in India's control( That land may not disputed, and i do not deny it)...But that does not mean India do not have the right to build infra within its own territory as like no one is questioning China to build anything within Tibet...

There can be argument of legalities, UN resolution or Past history but the bottom line is that every one has right to develop area under their control....If China feels its aggressiveness then i do not agree with it.Rather i would see, China is just too much aggressive to all of its neighbor because of its money and power and clout in the Global world...

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.

Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.

Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.

Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.

Read this from Reuters:

"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters

Read it again. Military officers in both countries, AND officials in New Delhi, say the violence is escalating because of Modi's "new assertive posture". They agree on that.

And this new assertive posture led to the recent border clash between China and India, as well as India recently killing over 20 civilians in Pakistan, by firing on civilian villages across the Pakistani border with mortar shells.

Is this new attitude the start of a new Forward Policy.... by Modi instead of Nehru? But while Nehru was smart to attack us at our weakest point, when we were collapsing from famine, Modi is now choosing to be assertive at our strongest point (the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day.")

Does that mean Nehru was smarter than Modi? Nehru also managed to keep Pakistan out of the 1962 war, which may not happen this time around. Leading to the two-front conflict that the Indian army has been talking about for the past few years.

 

[greatone]

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.

Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.
Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.
.

This time the mighty US empire(+Japan)is devoting all the resources in its formidable arsenal to contain China and offering India substantial technological,strategic and economic benefits to join in.

It is upto you to dissuade India by offering us more, by friendship or hostility or both.

US has finally realized it can not indulge Pakistan's irrational behaviour against India and be India's friend at the same time.
China will do its own cost benefit calculation and arrive at the same conclusion in due time.Of that I have no doubt.

 

[Yogijaat]

@Horus, @Developereo, what do you think of the geopolitics at play here?
How far will Modi's "new assertive posture" go, and if he conducts another Forward Policy what do you think will happen?
Note that it doesn't have to be an actual Forward Policy, the thing that matters is whether or not we perceive one of his "new assertive" policies to be a threat on par with the Forward Policy.

sky is the limit

 

[Vinod2070]

Much as some Pakistanis like to think that Modi supporters want "war with Pakistan", in fact nobody wants anything to do with Pakistan. Pakistan is doing a mighty fine job itself and just needs to be left alone. To be managed when the nuisance level goes up a bit. It is just because it is just not worth it to spend any more than the minimum energy on it.

All the while, our relations in the rest of the neighborhood and the key nations around the world are improving all the time and Indian economy is coming back on track.

About China, we will let them invest in our infrastructure. Let them be useful you know.

 

[Vinod2070]

In fact, this almost desperation of some people to see an Indian attack on Pakistan is nothing new.

The Pakistani leaders just after independence, in their desperation to sound useful to the Americans as "anti communists, most allied ally" played up the Russian communist threat to themselves in the same way. They would almost be apologetic when no such real threat ever materialized.

But then facts can't change people's minds, minds that are brainwashed from a very impressionable age.

 

[Brickwall]

When modi came to power , he was very pro china, maybe more than anyone before him.He spoke highly of china.But for whatever reasons Chinese instead of accepting friendship , intruded india at chumur.

Not sure that is plan of the china as whole or some faction of military going gung-ho.But whatever reasons it has surely left bad taste and most probably pushed towards US-Japan camp.

Regarding Nehru or modi smarter only time will tell, We all know nehru legacy but modi its still being scripted.

 

[AshishDelhi]

Most of the Chinese might oppose democracy but minority ethnic groups and groups from hong Kong will prefer democracy.
What would be the best answer to not have democracy. I believe external threats - actual or assumed. i believe china will continue to portray these threats...off topic there is a news of violence in Xinjiang. Was this broadcasted by Chinese govt

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.

Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.

Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.

Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.

Read this from Reuters:

"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters

Read it again. Military officers in both countries, AND officials in New Delhi, say the violence is escalating because of Modi's "new assertive posture". They agree on that.

And this new assertive posture led to the recent border clash between China and India, as well as India recently killing over 20 civilians in Pakistan, by firing on civilian villages across the Pakistani border with mortar shells.

Is this new attitude the start of a new Forward Policy.... by Modi instead of Nehru? But while Nehru was smart to attack us at our weakest point, when we were collapsing from famine, Modi is now choosing to be assertive at our strongest point (the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day.")

Does that mean Nehru was smarter than Modi? Nehru also managed to keep Pakistan out of the 1962 war, which may not happen this time around. Leading to the two-front conflict that the Indian army has been talking about for the past few years.

I possible believe, that war is not possible between China and India now. Read the recent interview by Modi? War will be less, but we will have invisible enemies?
He is right. China knows too well, that it wont interfere in any war btw India and Pakistan . Its too sensitive regarding its PR now. For all the push over in Indo-China boundary, no bullets have been fired for 3 decades, and ground commanders on many sectors have become friends . I doubt both of the countries will kill the goodwill and go for the war, which might put India permanently in Japan's camp.