China/Pakistan/India - Was Nehru smarter than Modi?

[Chinese-Dragon]

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.

Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.

Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.

Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.

Read this from Reuters:

"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters

Read it again. Military officers in both countries, AND officials in New Delhi, say the violence is escalating because of Modi's "new assertive posture". They agree on that.

And this new assertive posture led to the recent border clash between China and India, as well as India recently killing over 20 civilians in Pakistan, by firing on civilian villages across the Pakistani border with mortar shells.

Is this new attitude the start of a new Forward Policy.... by Modi instead of Nehru? But while Nehru was smart to attack us at our weakest point, when we were collapsing from famine, Modi is now choosing to be assertive at our strongest point (the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day.")

Does that mean Nehru was smarter than Modi? Nehru also managed to keep Pakistan out of the 1962 war, which may not happen this time around. Leading to the two-front conflict that the Indian army has been talking about for the past few years.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Hi @Chinese-Dragon ; you're back after a while. Are you done with your "Occupy Central" aka Preserve Democracy in Hong Kong campaign?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Hi @Chinese-Dragon ; you're back after a while. Are you done with your "Occupy Central" aka Preserve Democracy in Hong Kong campaign?

No, like the vast majority of Hong Kongers, I voted for the pro-Beijing camp.

And the pro-Beijing camp dominates the HK elections, we grabbed the vast majority of the votes, and therefore control pretty much every politician of influence, up to and including our HK Chief Executive CY Leung.

The pro-democracy camp are protesting, because that's all they can do. They received such a pitiful amount of votes during our last election, that they have no chance of winning by elections. So they do this instead.

Anyway, that is all "off topic".

So if you would comment on the topic, I would be grateful sir.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

No, like the vast majority of Hong Kongers, I voted for the pro-Beijing camp.

And the pro-Beijing camp dominates the HK elections, we grabbed the vast majority of the votes, and therefore control pretty much every politician of influence, up to and including our HK Chief Executive CY Leung.

The pro-democracy camp are protesting, because that's all they can do. They received such a pitiful amount of votes during our last election, that they have no chance of winning by elections. So they do this instead.

Anyway, that is all "off topic".

So if you would comment on the topic, I would be grateful sir.

Oh well; Democracy comes at a price after all.......not all are willing to pay.

About the topic; while it is imaginative it has "not covered all bases". There is a great deal of difference between Nehru and Modi just as there are tremendous differences between their times and circumstances (or even the people across the border respectively).
Modi (love him or hate him) has all the instincts of a good business-man, he never seems to lose sight of the 'final deal'. That is where he trumps Nehru.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.
Read this from Reuters:
"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."
Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters
Read it again. Military officers in both countries, AND officials in New Delhi, say the violence is escalating because of Modi's "new assertive posture". They agree on that.
And this new assertive posture led to the recent border clash between China and India, as well as India recently killing over 20 civilians in Pakistan, by firing on civilian villages across the Pakistani border with mortar shells.

Where is the 'assertive posture against China'? I see the '20 civilians killed' in Pakistan repeated though but no proof of China getting hurt. Unless Pakistani damage is also damaging to China. In that case, yes, Nehru was smarter than Modi and Rahul is the smartest guy in the world.

 

[The Great One]

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.

Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.

Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.

Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.

Read this from Reuters:

"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters

Read it again. Military officers in both countries, AND officials in New Delhi, say the violence is escalating because of Modi's "new assertive posture". They agree on that.

And this new assertive posture led to the recent border clash between China and India, as well as India recently killing over 20 civilians in Pakistan, by firing on civilian villages across the Pakistani border with mortar shells.

Is this new attitude the start of a new Forward Policy.... by Modi instead of Nehru? But while Nehru was smart to attack us at our weakest point, when we were collapsing from famine, Modi is now choosing to be assertive at our strongest point (the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day.")

Does that mean Nehru was smarter than Modi? Nehru also managed to keep Pakistan out of the 1962 war, which may not happen this time around. Leading to the two-front conflict that the Indian army has been talking about for the past few years.

The assertive posture refers to a more assertive response to Pakistani violations of ceasefire, not committing such violations ourselves. The violence increases because we believe that every unprovoked firing from the other side deserves a disproportionately massive response to which they then respond.

As for China, that shouldn't have been surprising, after all you cross over into our territory and then expect us to do what exactly.
Modi is also trying to establish peace and friendly relations, which is why he invited Pakistani PM to his oath ceremony.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Where is the 'assertive posture against China'? I see the '20 civilians killed' in Pakistan repeated though but no proof of China getting hurt. Unless Pakistani damage is also damaging to China. In that case, yes, Nehru was smarter than Modi and Rahul is the smartest guy in the world.

Did you really miss the news about the recent China-India border clash during the visit of Xi Jinping to India? Or miss me mentioning it in the first post of this thread?

Modi has a "new assertive posture", everyone agrees. That's what many Indians wanted. Obviously it affects the Sino-Indian border too, as we have seen.

But what if it leads to another Forward Policy? Or the perception of another Forward Policy?

 

[Yogijaat]

nehru attacked china?

Modi has a "new assertive posture", everyone agrees. That's what many Indians wanted.

non chinese and non pakistani people do exists in this world.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

non chinese and non pakistani people do exists in this world.

You disagree?

So do you think Modi has a weaker and less assertive stance than Manmohan Singh?

 

[ni8mare]

you know very well they were killing indians on the indian side of border but you just conveniently ignore it to make your point ..

and about china india clash that what you call it .......why pla is intruding while their pm is in host country ? is it not assertive posture from chinese side....

Just a random thought. Comment if you like.

Nehru was smart, when he launched his Forward Policy against China, we were at the weakest period of our history, not to mention in the middle of the worst famine in our history, the Great leap forward. We were literally collapsing with starvation, the Great leap forward alone dropped China's GDP by over 1/3, making us significantly poorer than India at that time as well.

Which meant Nehru was smart, because if you want to start a Forward Policy against a country like China, you'd better be damn sure we are at the weakest point imaginable, collapsing from famine for example.

Modi on the other hand, is now pressing forward with his "new assertive posture", against both China AND Pakistan.

Read this from Reuters:

"(Reuters) - However, military officers in both countries and officials in New Delhi say the violence that has killed nearly 20 civilians escalated because of a more assertive Indian posture under the new government of nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi."

Modi's bravado ups the ante in India-Pakistan fighting | Reuters

Read it again. Military officers in both countries, AND officials in New Delhi, say the violence is escalating because of Modi's "new assertive posture". They agree on that.

And this new assertive posture led to the recent border clash between China and India, as well as India recently killing over 20 civilians in Pakistan, by firing on civilian villages across the Pakistani border with mortar shells.

Is this new attitude the start of a new Forward Policy.... by Modi instead of Nehru? But while Nehru was smart to attack us at our weakest point, when we were collapsing from famine, Modi is now choosing to be assertive at our strongest point (the Indian Army itself has admitted that "India cannot match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day.")

Does that mean Nehru was smarter than Modi? Nehru also managed to keep Pakistan out of the 1962 war, which may not happen this time around. Leading to the two-front conflict that the Indian army has been talking about for the past few years.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

perception of another Forward Policy

If China perceives the existence of Indian defensive positions that have existed all along as a new Forward Policy, there is nothing India can peacefully do, other than raise their hands up and surrender all territory.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

is it not assertive posture from chinese side....

No, read the Reuters article.

Even officials in New Delhi have told Reuters that it is the "new assertive posture" of the Modi government that is escalating the situation on the borders.

nehru attacked china?

Yes. That is according to India's own internal military report:

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

I guess you have heard of the Henderson-Brooks report, compiled internally by the Indian Army back in 1962.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

is it not assertive posture from chinese side

Perhaps PLA 'perceives' it as tourism. But I am not aware of any 'clash' yet.

 

[Yogijaat]

You disagree?
So do you think Modi has a weaker and less assertive stance than Manmohan Singh?

nope chinese were more aggressive this time, we were at the receiving side

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Yes, according to India's own internal military report, the Henderson-Brooks report:

Nope. Nehru provoked China to initiate hostilities. Nehru did not start the war himself. He made it impossible for you to NOT start it.