China Must Reform or Die.

[Solomon2]

I don't understand why the western world needs to discriminate.

So another country has a different economic system and government.

Big deal, so why the pressure for China to change?

I do not see China forcing their government model on other countries.

So why does the western world justify trying to force their government on China?

There is such a thing as morality and human rights. Not something Chinese officials (or French-educated ones, for that matter) think very important. But I am very unsure if the past thirty years would have been much better if China was a Western-style democracy. Chinese thinking is a bit different, individuals and officials have some ideas of limits to their actions, if not accountability. Yet I do not think the situation can last forever; the officials are too rich and powerful, the powerless too weak and the moment the populace feels too alienated the ruling regime becomes an empty shell and China fractures or succumbs to invasion. That is the pattern of Chinese history, and I see no reason why today is any different.

 

[below_freezing]

it's really overhyped, about how "unfree" we are. indeed, those that claim they are free, never know how brainwashed they really are.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

There is such a thing as morality and human rights. Not something Chinese officials (or French-educated ones, for that matter) think very important. But I am very unsure if the past thirty years would have been much better if China was a Western-style democracy. Chinese thinking is a bit different, individuals and officials have some ideas of limits to their actions, if not accountability. Yet I do not think the situation can last forever; the officials are too rich and powerful, the powerless too weak and the moment the populace feels too alienated the ruling regime becomes an empty shell and China fractures or succumbs to invasion. That is the pattern of Chinese history, and I see no reason why today is any different.

Your description only applies to MONARCHIES, China is not a monarchy, china is a meritocracy/technocracy/democracy.

The closest governmental system that is similar to China's is the government of Singapore or Hong Kong. Singapore is authoritarian and regularly violates human rights while keeping a deathgrip on the media.

Yet Singapore enjoys one of the highest standards of living and the people have no desire for democracy. The population of Singapore is 75% han chinese.


You are so certain that democracy has no flaws? USA is the only country where politicians that get caught in corruption get reelected over and over again

5 Blatantly Corrupt Politicians America Reelected Anyways | Cracked.com

Thanks to campaign funding and media spins even someone like Bernie Madoff could be a senator someday provided that he has enough cash to burn!

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Your description only applies to MONARCHIES, China is not a monarchy, china is a meritocracy/technocracy/democracy.

The closest governmental system that is similar to China's is the government of Singapore or Hong Kong. Singapore is authoritarian and regularly violates human rights while keeping a deathgrip on the media.

Yet Singapore enjoys one of the highest standards of living and the people have no desire for democracy. The population of Singapore is 75% han chinese.


You are so certain that democracy has no flaws? USA is the only country where politicians that get caught in corruption get reelected over and over again

5 Blatantly Corrupt Politicians America Reelected Anyways | Cracked.com

Thanks to campaign funding and media spins even someone like Bernie Madoff could be a senator someday provided that he has enough cash to burn!

Singapore is at least partly free and was part of the British Empire.
To qualify as an "electoral democracy", a state must have satisfied the following criteria:

1.A competitive, multiparty political system;
2.Universal adult suffrage for all citizens (with exceptions for restrictions that states may legitimately place on citizens as sanctions for criminal offenses);
3.Regularly contested elections conducted in conditions of ballot secrecy, reasonable ballot security, and the absence of massive voter fraud that yields results that are unrepresentative of the public will;
4.Significant public access of major political parties to the electorate through the media and through generally open political campaigning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_(report)

Year Under Review Free Partly Free Not Free
2010 89 (46%) 58 (30%) 47 (24%)

and yes democracy has flaws, plenty of them, but its much much better then the alternatives.

 

[below_freezing]

Thus it doesn't matter if a politician steals 10 million dollars and gets away with it, as long as he gets reelected in a "free election" the system works.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Singapore is at least partly free and was part of the British Empire.
To qualify as an "electoral democracy", a state must have satisfied the following criteria:

1.A competitive, multiparty political system;
2.Universal adult suffrage for all citizens (with exceptions for restrictions that states may legitimately place on citizens as sanctions for criminal offenses);
3.Regularly contested elections conducted in conditions of ballot secrecy, reasonable ballot security, and the absence of massive voter fraud that yields results that are unrepresentative of the public will;
4.Significant public access of major political parties to the electorate through the media and through generally open political campaigning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_(report)

Year Under Review Free Partly Free Not Free
2010 89 (46%) 58 (30%) 47 (24%)

You know nothing about Singapore, while they do elect a president the president is POWERLESS

Essential Background: Overview of human rights issues in Singapore (Human Rights Watch World Report 2008, 31-1-2008)

HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH REPORT 2008

Singapore remains an authoritarian state with strict curbs on freedom of expression, assembly, and association. All political activities are tightly controlled.

State laws and political repression effectively prevent the establishment of human rights organizations and deter individuals from speaking out publicly against government policies.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Also so more regarding Captain Americas ignorance

Parliament of Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Out of 94 seats held these are the distributions

People's Action Party (82)
Workers' Party (1+1 NCMP)
SPP (1)
Nominated Members (9)

Singapore is essentially ruled by ONE PARTY, the People's Action Party. The president is just a People's Action Party stooge and if the president ever does act up the party just overides him.

Even if the SPP and Worker's Party manages to win all of their contested seats they still will never get the majority needed to do anything, the workers party and SPP are only allowed to contest for 20 seats each while the People's action party contests all 84 seats

Singaporean general election, 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People's Action Party Lee Hsien Loong 84 82† 747,860 66.60 -8.69
Workers' Party Low Thia Khiang 20 1 183,604 16.34 +13.30
Singapore Democratic Alliance
National Solidarity Party
Pertubuhan Kebangsaan Melayu Singapura
Singapore Justice Party
Singapore People's Party
Chiam See Tong 20 1 145,902 12.99 +0.96
Singapore Democratic Party Chee Soon Juan 7 0 45,634 4.07 -4.04

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

You know nothing about Singapore, while they do elect a president the president is POWERLESS

Essential Background: Overview of human rights issues in Singapore (Human Rights Watch World Report 2008, 31-1-2008)

HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH REPORT 2008

Singapore remains an authoritarian state with strict curbs on freedom of expression, assembly, and association. All political activities are tightly controlled.

State laws and political repression effectively prevent the establishment of human rights organizations and deter individuals from speaking out publicly against government policies.

I cant tell if your bragging or complaining,, though how some could be proud of living in "authoritarian state with strict curbs on freedom of expression, assembly, and association. All political activities are tightly controlled." with
"State laws and political repression effectively prevent the establishment of human rights organizations and deter individuals from speaking out publicly against government policies[/quote]"
though how some one want to live under such a system is beyond my understanding, and I am the one thats suppose to be ignorant.

Well the way I see it, if General Liu Yazhou says China is screwed. I will take his word for it.

A Chinese two-star general has warned his conservative Communist Party masters and firebrand People's Liberation Army colleagues that China must either embrace US-style democracy or accept Soviet-style collapse.

As officers of similar rank rattle their sabres against US aircraft carriers in the Yellow and South China seas, General Liu Yazhou says China's rise depends on adopting America's system of government rather than challenging its dominance off China's eastern coast.

''If a system fails to let its citizens breathe freely and release their creativity to the maximum extent, and fails to place those who best represent the system and its people into leadership positions, it is certain to perish,'' writes General Liu Yazhou in Hong Kong's Phoenix magazine, which is widely available on news stands and on the internet throughout China;

Your screwed

 

[Brotherhood]

I cant tell if your bragging or complaining,, though how some could be proud of living in "authoritarian state with strict curbs on freedom of expression, assembly, and association. All political activities are tightly controlled." with
"State laws and political repression effectively prevent the establishment of human rights organizations and deter individuals from speaking out publicly against government policies

"
though how some one want to live under such a system is beyond my understanding, and I am the one thats suppose to be ignorant.

Well the way I see if General Liu Yazhou says China is screwed.

Your screwed[/QUOTE]


Your screwed? do you mean you are screwed? something like this?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Your screwed? do you mean you are screwed? something like this?

I think Captain America is trying to say "You're screwed"... or "You are screwed".

The problem with that assessment, is that China is rising, and America is declining. So it's the other way around.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

I cant tell if your bragging or complaining,, though how some could be proud of living in "authoritarian state with strict curbs on freedom of expression, assembly, and association. All political activities are tightly controlled." with
"State laws and political repression effectively prevent the establishment of human rights organizations and deter individuals from speaking out publicly against government policies

"
though how some one want to live under such a system is beyond my understanding, and I am the one thats suppose to be ignorant.

Well the way I see it, if General Liu Yazhou says China is screwed. I will take his word for it.

Your screwed

[/QUOTE]

You are a complete hypocrite, just like your entire country

You immediately dismiss the fact that a non democratic regime can survive and prosper when there are two perfectly good examples right in front of you.

Singapore and hong kong have extremely high HDI and authoritarian governments.

You claim that a non democratic government cannot have creativity? A democratic government cannot have creativity because it is MOB RULE. Anybody that suggests that Stem Cells could help people, that selective breeding could make children smarter, that global warming is a lie all get thrown out and ignored because of MOB RULE.

While China, the government gives indviduals more freedom.

Ideas that people say are impossible, the chinese AlWAYS give it a shot.

Chinese Say They’re Building ‘Impossible’ Space Drive | Danger Room | Wired.com

Chinese researchers claim they’ve confirmed the theory behind an "impossible" space drive, and are proceeding to build a demonstration version. If they’re right, this might transform the economics of satellites, open up new possibilities for space exploration –- and give the Chinese a decisive military advantage in space.

China is not afraid to support science that the west deems immoral

BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Chinese scientists back eugenics

A survey of Chinese scientists working in the field of genetics suggests they overwhelmingly support eugenics to improve public health.

Almost unanimously - by 91% - the scientists said that couples who carried the same disease-causing genetic mutation should not be allowed to have children.

This man was laughed at because his ideas were stupid, but he prove them wrong

http://www.china.org.cn/english/congress/228000.htm
Great scientific achievements usually come from bold thinking. Tokamak devices had always been circular. After years of theoretical study and numerous experiments, Wan Yuanxi and his colleagues felt that a non-circular Tokamak device might perform better for the deuterium-tritium fusion reaction. In 1997, Wan together with a group of outstanding scientific colleagues, drew up a plan for building a non-circular experimental superconducting Tokamak.

Its very novelty in the field meant that a non-circular Tokamak device would require state-of-the-art technologies. As the initiator of the plan, Wan Yuanxi would face huge personal embarrassment if he failed. However Wan said, "What is more important is that failure would mean that our nation would not only incur a significant financial loss but would also see its scientific reputation suffer."

20 YEARS AGO THEY TELL THE CHINESE THAT CONNECTING TIBET BY RAIL WAS IMPOSSIBLE

But the chinese did it, a engineering marvel worlds highest railway

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Hu opens world's highest railway

Hu opens world's highest railway

You say that we are screwed? You are the ones that are screwed, enjoy your corrupt politicians and you creation theories

5 Blatantly Corrupt Politicians America Reelected Anyways | Cracked.com

 

[Brotherhood]

I think Captain America is trying to say "You're screwed"... or "You are screwed".

The problem with that assessment, is that China is rising, and America is declining. So it's the other way around.

I have a hard time to deal with a so-called American (文&#30450, a rare species in the 21 century.

 

[Nomenclature]

I see no evidence nationalism combined with democracy will necessarily result in a more aggressive foreign policy posture. Take South Korea for example, it has a very nationalistic public with a vibrant democracy yet I think most of its actions are quite rational.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

You are a complete hypocrite, just like your entire country

You immediately dismiss the fact that a non democratic regime can survive and prosper when there are two perfectly good examples right in front of you.

Singapore and hong kong have extremely high HDI and authoritarian governments.

You claim that a non democratic government cannot have creativity? A democratic government cannot have creativity because it is MOB RULE. Anybody that suggests that Stem Cells could help people, that selective breeding could make children smarter, that global warming is a lie all get thrown out and ignored because of MOB RULE.

While China, the government gives indviduals more freedom.

Ideas that people say are impossible, the chinese AlWAYS give it a shot.



China is not afraid to support science that the west deems immoral




This man was laughed at because his ideas were stupid, but he prove them wrong



20 YEARS AGO THEY TELL THE CHINESE THAT CONNECTING TIBET BY RAIL WAS IMPOSSIBLE

But the chinese did it, a engineering marvel worlds highest railway



You say that we are screwed? You are the ones that are screwed, enjoy your corrupt politicians and you creation theories

5 Blatantly Corrupt Politicians America Reelected Anyways | Cracked.com[/QUOTE]

In an 110 years with 1.3 billion Chinese, China has never won a Nobel Prize, not one.. Thats proof enough.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

I think Captain America is trying to say "You're screwed"... or "You are screwed".

The problem with that assessment, is that China is rising, and America is declining. So it's the other way around.

Thats not what this fellow is saying:::

A Chinese two-star general has warned his conservative Communist Party masters and firebrand People's Liberation Army colleagues that China must either embrace US-style democracy or accept Soviet-style collapse.

As officers of similar rank rattle their sabres against US aircraft carriers in the Yellow and South China seas, General Liu Yazhou says China's rise depends on adopting America's system of government rather than challenging its dominance off China's eastern coast.

''If a system fails to let its citizens breathe freely and release their creativity to the maximum extent, and fails to place those who best represent the system and its people into leadership positions, it is certain to perish,'' writes General Liu Yazhou in Hong Kong's Phoenix magazine, which is widely available on news stands and on the internet throughout China;