China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military technology

[LeGenD]

China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military technology​

• Former Soviet republic supplied the PLA Navy’s first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype
• ‘Beijing wants technologies, and Ukraine … successfully cooperated in this direction,’ ex-defence official says

China bought an unfinished Soviet warship from Ukraine in 1998. It went into service in 2012 as the country’s first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. Photo: AFP

China has become a close ally of Russia, and is seen by some as tacitly backing Moscow’s war in Ukraine. But China also has strong economic and defence ties with Ukraine – it is the eastern European nation’s biggest trading partner, and Kyiv helped Beijing to modernise its military.

In recent decades, the former Soviet republic has sold key military equipment and technology to China, including its first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype. According to a former Ukrainian defence official, those transactions helped ease the country’s financial troubles.

It started with the biggest and most significant deal – for an unfinished Soviet aircraft carrier called the Varyag. The vessel was about two-thirds built at a Black Sea shipyard when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

Konstantin Khivrenko was a spokesman for Ukraine’s defence ministry in the early 2000s. Photo: Handout

Konstantin Khivrenko, who served in the Ukrainian defence ministry from 1993 to 2004, said the government had to sell the vessel to help the cash-strapped shipbuilder.

The US$25 million deal for the Varyag was sealed in 1998 by a Hong Kong businessman who had been sent by the Chinese navy – with a cover story that he would turn the vessel into a floating casino in Macau.

According to Khivrenko, now a Ukrainian reserve colonel, the government was convinced at the time that it would be used as a casino and “would not contribute to the militarisation of the region”.

It also provided a much-needed cash injection for Ukraine.

“It would have taken at least US$10 million to US$15 million from the Ukrainian budget to complete [the vessel] – the young country simply did not have this money,” he said.

“By selling the aircraft carrier … Ukraine replenished its budget by US$25 million. This amount was quite large for the country at that period of time,” Khivrenko said, adding that the vessel did not suit Ukraine’s defence needs.

The warship was eventually completed in China, renamed the Liaoning, and became the centrepiece of the PLA Navy.

China’s military modernisation benefited from other Ukrainian deals in the decades to follow – including the T-10K prototype of the Su-33 fighter jet, UGT 25000 naval gas turbine engine technology, and Zubr-class hovercraft.

That technology helped China develop its J-15 carrier-based fighter jets, and the QC 280 gas turbines that power the navy’s most advanced stealth guided-missile destroyers, the Type 055s. Chinese shipbuilders have also developed their own Zubr air-cushion landing craft under the guidance of Ukrainian experts.

But Khivrenko denied reports that the West, especially the US, had tried to intervene and stop the transfer of military technology to China. “No one has ever tied the hands of Ukraine to prevent any military-technical trade deals” with Beijing, he said.

“There has not been a single case of industrial espionage by the Chinese side recorded in Ukraine over the past seven or eight years – that also says a lot,” he added.

“China is no longer interested in buying goods,” Khivrenko said. “Beijing wants technologies, and Ukraine didn’t only understand this, but also successfully cooperated in this direction.”

However, not all of the investments have been successful.

Last year, Kyiv blocked Chinese aerospace firm Skyrizon’s takeover bid for Ukrainian aircraft engine maker Motor Sich, amid US concerns about key technology being transferred. Kyiv said Motor Sich would be nationalised, and Skyrizon is seeking US$4.5 billion in compensation from the Ukrainian government at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague.

Still, Khivrenko pointed to strong ties in areas such as manufacturing, agriculture, science and culture.

China is now Ukraine’s largest single trading partner, overtaking Russia in 2020 with trade turnover of US$15.4 billion, including US$7.1 billion in Ukrainian exports, according to the State Statistics Service in Kyiv.

But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has put China in a difficult position. Beijing has said it opposes the war but has not condemned Moscow’s aggression. It has said it respects the territorial integrity of both countries and has called for a diplomatic solution.

“I think the Ukrainian government also did not expect Beijing officials to start criticising Moscow heavily,” Khivrenko said. “Beijing has almost never made quick and sharp statements regarding any geopolitical topics.”

However, he said Chinese President Xi Jinping could use his influence with Russian leader Vladimir Putin to make a “historical contribution to the cause of peace”.

“It is important for Xi Jinping to use not only political instruments, but also to get involved in the process of ending the war on a personal level,” he said. “China could become a convenient moderator for Russia in future negotiations to end the war and expand its diplomatic participation in other forms.”

China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military tech

Former Soviet republic supplied the PLA Navy’s first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype.

www.scmp.com

 

[MultaniGuy]

Chinese are smart people to buy technology from Ukraine.

Well done I must say.

 

[applesauce]

Meh.

china looked everywhere for tech and goods.

its just that some places, ie US and EU refuse to sell

 

[jaybird]

China was close to Ukraine more than Russia in the past, because Ukraine is willing to sell anything that's worth of value to anyone as long as you have the money. The technology and weapons Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union still valuable to China especially in the 90s to 00s. It was a good partnership as both got what they needed at the time.

But the relationship deteriorated after the 2014 Maiden Revolution that turn Ukraine into a pro-west government. Ukraine started to support some of the U.S lead anti-China rhetoric in international arena. And the move of nationalized Ukrainian aircraft engine maker Motor Sich after the agreement under the pressure by the U.S fractured the relation. Ukraine still owe China 4.5 billion from the deal and not paying back the money. The 2 paragraphs from the article is contradictory itself.

Example from this article.

"But Khivrenko denied reports that the West, especially the US, had tried to intervene and stop the transfer of military technology to China. “No one has ever tied the hands of Ukraine to prevent any military-technical trade deals” with Beijing, he said.

Kyiv blocked Chinese aerospace firm Skyrizon’s takeover bid for Ukrainian aircraft engine maker Motor Sich, amid US concerns about key technology being transferred. Kyiv said Motor Sich would be nationalised, and Skyrizon is seeking US$4.5 billion in compensation from the Ukrainian government at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague."



Also, Turkey blocked the passage of Varyag from passing the Bosphorus Strait for 3 years on the grounds of safe passage. The trip Start from Black sea on June-1999, only make it to China until March 3, 2002. China could've have an aircraft carrier 3 years earlier if not for the the Turkish blockade.

The reason Turkey given was Varyag was too big too dangerous to be towed through the strategic waterways was obviously B.S. The real reason was U.S government influence, the rest was just excuse as proven the Varyag could be towed through the Bosporus without incident. Turkey has put forward dozens of conditions and got many concession out of China including technology transfer in certain military equipments. Also one of the condition was to pay a security deposit of 1 billion US dollars.

The 1 billion US dollar deposit is not required to be paid, provided that a third-party country has to provide guarantee. It's actually easier for China to guarantee it her self because it's difficult to find a country who would do this for China at the displeasure of the U.S government. And Greece step up in this case to help China. Chinese people will always remember the Greeks for the help.

 

[Beast]

Typical western journalism. Talk as if Ukraine and China still share or cooperate in a lot of crucial military tech. Those times are long over. Besides the jet engine used on L-15 imported from Ukraine. I don't think there is much we want from Ukraine now.

 

[beijingwalker]

Typical western journalism. Talk as if Ukraine and China still share or cooperate in a lot of crucial military tech. Those times are long over. Besides the jet engine used on L-15 imported from Ukraine. I don't think there is much we want from Ukraine now.

It's true in the past, but not now, western media's common trick to twist the truth.

 

[Song Hong]

Ukraine need Chinese monies also.

 

[beijingwalker]

China is now Ukraine’s largest single trading partner, overtaking Russia in 2020 with trade turnover of US$15.4 billion, including US$7.1 billion in Ukrainian exports, according to the State Statistics Service in Kyiv.

Yes, China still believes Ukraine a friend, but its recent pro west stance worries China.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military technology​

• Former Soviet republic supplied the PLA Navy’s first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype
• ‘Beijing wants technologies, and Ukraine … successfully cooperated in this direction,’ ex-defence official says

China bought an unfinished Soviet warship from Ukraine in 1998. It went into service in 2012 as the country’s first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. Photo: AFP

China has become a close ally of Russia, and is seen by some as tacitly backing Moscow’s war in Ukraine. But China also has strong economic and defence ties with Ukraine – it is the eastern European nation’s biggest trading partner, and Kyiv helped Beijing to modernise its military.

In recent decades, the former Soviet republic has sold key military equipment and technology to China, including its first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype. According to a former Ukrainian defence official, those transactions helped ease the country’s financial troubles.

It started with the biggest and most significant deal – for an unfinished Soviet aircraft carrier called the Varyag. The vessel was about two-thirds built at a Black Sea shipyard when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

Konstantin Khivrenko was a spokesman for Ukraine’s defence ministry in the early 2000s. Photo: Handout

Konstantin Khivrenko, who served in the Ukrainian defence ministry from 1993 to 2004, said the government had to sell the vessel to help the cash-strapped shipbuilder.

The US$25 million deal for the Varyag was sealed in 1998 by a Hong Kong businessman who had been sent by the Chinese navy – with a cover story that he would turn the vessel into a floating casino in Macau.

According to Khivrenko, now a Ukrainian reserve colonel, the government was convinced at the time that it would be used as a casino and “would not contribute to the militarisation of the region”.

It also provided a much-needed cash injection for Ukraine.

“It would have taken at least US$10 million to US$15 million from the Ukrainian budget to complete [the vessel] – the young country simply did not have this money,” he said.

“By selling the aircraft carrier … Ukraine replenished its budget by US$25 million. This amount was quite large for the country at that period of time,” Khivrenko said, adding that the vessel did not suit Ukraine’s defence needs.

The warship was eventually completed in China, renamed the Liaoning, and became the centrepiece of the PLA Navy.

China’s military modernisation benefited from other Ukrainian deals in the decades to follow – including the T-10K prototype of the Su-33 fighter jet, UGT 25000 naval gas turbine engine technology, and Zubr-class hovercraft.

That technology helped China develop its J-15 carrier-based fighter jets, and the QC 280 gas turbines that power the navy’s most advanced stealth guided-missile destroyers, the Type 055s. Chinese shipbuilders have also developed their own Zubr air-cushion landing craft under the guidance of Ukrainian experts.

But Khivrenko denied reports that the West, especially the US, had tried to intervene and stop the transfer of military technology to China. “No one has ever tied the hands of Ukraine to prevent any military-technical trade deals” with Beijing, he said.

“There has not been a single case of industrial espionage by the Chinese side recorded in Ukraine over the past seven or eight years – that also says a lot,” he added.

“China is no longer interested in buying goods,” Khivrenko said. “Beijing wants technologies, and Ukraine didn’t only understand this, but also successfully cooperated in this direction.”

However, not all of the investments have been successful.

Last year, Kyiv blocked Chinese aerospace firm Skyrizon’s takeover bid for Ukrainian aircraft engine maker Motor Sich, amid US concerns about key technology being transferred. Kyiv said Motor Sich would be nationalised, and Skyrizon is seeking US$4.5 billion in compensation from the Ukrainian government at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague.

Still, Khivrenko pointed to strong ties in areas such as manufacturing, agriculture, science and culture.

China is now Ukraine’s largest single trading partner, overtaking Russia in 2020 with trade turnover of US$15.4 billion, including US$7.1 billion in Ukrainian exports, according to the State Statistics Service in Kyiv.

But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has put China in a difficult position. Beijing has said it opposes the war but has not condemned Moscow’s aggression. It has said it respects the territorial integrity of both countries and has called for a diplomatic solution.

“I think the Ukrainian government also did not expect Beijing officials to start criticising Moscow heavily,” Khivrenko said. “Beijing has almost never made quick and sharp statements regarding any geopolitical topics.”

However, he said Chinese President Xi Jinping could use his influence with Russian leader Vladimir Putin to make a “historical contribution to the cause of peace”.

“It is important for Xi Jinping to use not only political instruments, but also to get involved in the process of ending the war on a personal level,” he said. “China could become a convenient moderator for Russia in future negotiations to end the war and expand its diplomatic participation in other forms.”

China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military tech

Former Soviet republic supplied the PLA Navy’s first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype.

www.scmp.com

That was history back then in 1990.
No more.
No advanced Western nations will ever transfers their technologies to any developing nation esp. China.

The Varyag was just an empty rust bucket and China has to develop the Aircraft Carrier practically from scratch.
Russia then quote an unusually high price for the arresting system while SU-33 was already out of production.

China was only interested to take a close peek at T10K prototype in Ukraine in order to understand how tbe folding wing works and later created their own version based on the analysis of the leaked photographs of both systems.

The giant hovercrafts used in 071 were built in Crimea now a part of Russia.

Under the Soviet Unions, all the important technical blueprints are safely kept in Moscow.

The only exception was Motor Sich which was later purchased by Beijing Skyrizon in 2017 but was illegally nationalised by Ukraine at the behest of the US.

Beijing Skyrizon is suing Motor Sich for the billions they paid for the acquisition.
The Ukrainian refused to allow any of the equipment at Motor Sich to be transfer to China.

But China was not interested in Ukrainian obsolete manufacturing equipment technology but instead her pool of talented milling machinists, engineers.

They were very quickly transport and now living in Chengdu in an Ukrainian village together with their families.

Their contribution I suspects is in the Minshan engines for L-15.

 

[WotTen]

Chinese are smart people to buy technology from Ukraine.

Well done I must say.

Getting advanced technology at firesale prices? Smart move!

The US is probably kicking themselves for not moving fast enough and snapping them up so China couldn't get to them.

 

[beijingwalker]

The US is probably kicking themselves for not moving fast enough and snapping them up so China couldn't get to them.

You underestimate cunny Americans, they actually promised to buy those Ukraine legacy weapons so China can't get them, but they didn't in the end.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Most Americans are naive and ignorant but not her.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Most Americans are naive and ignorant but not her.

Brilliant analysis...

 

[dBSPL]

Also, Turkey blocked the passage of Varyag from passing the Bosphorus Strait for 3 years on the grounds of safe passage. The trip Start from Black sea on June-1999, only make it to China until March 3, 2002. China could've have an aircraft carrier 3 years earlier if not for the the Turkish blockade.

The reason Turkey given was Varyag was too big too dangerous to be towed through the strategic waterways was obviously B.S. The real reason was U.S government influence, the rest was just excuse as proven the Varyag could be towed through the Bosporus without incident. Turkey has put forward dozens of conditions and got many concession out of China including technology transfer in certain military equipments. Also one of the condition was to pay a security deposit of 1 billion US dollars.

Turkey did not allow the use of the straits for the passage from the Black Sea to the Aegean, citing the Montreux Convention, as the ship was both an aircraft carrier/warship and had no engine and rudder.

The General Staff and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed the opinion that the ship should be allowed to pass in order to develop relations with China, and worked on the legal infrastructure.

The biggest concern in the Turkish public was an accident possibility, such an incident could halt traffic in the strait for months. China managed to overcome this problem by giving a letter of guarantee of 1 Billion USD against the possibility of any accident.

At the same time, it was announced that the ship would not be used for military purposes, so as not to violate the Montreux convention; Also, with the promise that a considerable number of tourists would be sent to Turkey, the Turkish government allowed the ship to pass on the condition that it was completely empty.

As a result of the passage made under great security measures, no accidents were experienced and the guarantee amount given by China was not used. After a while, China removed the front company and announced that it would use the ship for military purposes. Varyag, which was promised to be used for tourism purposes during its transportation, was announced by the Chinese Ministry of Defense in 2011, that there was no harm in using as a warship. And the aforementioned Chinese tourists never showed up either.

Trying to present all these events as if Turkey blocked China for 3 years is an extremely unfortunate and deficient perspective. Because Turkey approached China as positively as possible despite all the pressure.

 

[lcloo]

Those were the days when Ukraine was broke and not constricted by US and NATO, their political leaders at the time period were friendly with China, and even with Russia. Ukraine needed money and they sell to China as business deals, not because of friendship.

Those days are bygone since the political change in Ukraine.