China economy boost the Navy, 6th 052C DDG finished next 055

[Brainsucker]

5 AB without a carrier around ?

yep. Without a carrier around. Remember the Syria Chemical Weapon Crisis when US sent 5 of their Arleigh Burke to "punish" Syria? I remember following the discussion in SDF. One of American Military Expert there said that he believed that those 60 fighters won't be able to handle the burkes. And that Expert is working to US Navy or something.

Sorry, This is his job :

He worked as a designer, manager, director, and consultant for over twenty-five years in the defense, nuclear power, and computer industries where he was involved in various engineering, support, and management capacities. Projects he has been involed with have included the A-7 attack aircraft program, the MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System) program, the San Onofre Nuclear Power Project, the South Texas Nuclear Power Project, the Theater High Altitude Air Defense System (THAADS), and the NSSN Virginia Class nuclear attack submarines.

So as a civilian who is ignorant in military technology, I believe what he said.

 

[BoQ77]

Hi. I think the most important thing is : what the type of air to surface missile, those aircrafts bringing.
Not the quantity of aircrafts.

AB has advanced intercept missiles, better than specs of Type 055, but a Chinese guys here said that 1 Type 055 could handle hundreds Brahmos missiles. LOL.

Based on his logic, an AB could handle 60 aircrafts, mention that there's not aircraft armed with more advanced missiles than Brahmos missiles.

But it's unlikely 60 aircrafts to surround an AB or Type 055.

I wonder how an AB handle with Brahmos missiles. It's very interesting.

 

[Brainsucker]

Hi. I think the most important thing is : what the type of air to surface missile, those aircrafts bringing.
Not the quantity of aircrafts.

AB has advanced intercept missiles, better than specs of Type 055, but a Chinese guys here said that 1 Type 055 could handle hundreds Brahmos missiles. LOL.

Based on his logic, an AB could handle 60 aircrafts, mention that there's not aircraft armed with more advanced missiles than Brahmos missiles.

But it's unlikely 60 aircrafts to surround an AB or Type 055.

I wonder how an AB handle with Brahmos missiles. It's very interesting.

You should go to AB specific thread if you want to discuss that further.

But still, China has more option than Vietnam when the war ever happen. So they have huge advantage compared to you. Brasmos and Club S are only missiles. They are dangerous weapon. But with SAT and AWACs at Chinese disposal, their missiles will be deadlier than yours. It's not because Chinese AShM is better than Club S or Brasmos. But because they have more eyes to guide their missiles than yours.

 

[Jlaw]

You don't know flappy bird and swing copters?

They are Vietnamese games that indicates that Vietnam is a powerhouse that will become a developed economy soon with sophisticated military weapons.

It's familiar to you cause it's copied from Super Mario. Give the dev some more time and he can copy tetris.

Seriously the game was so impressive to the VCP that one of their member visited the game developer.

My guess is by 2070 vietnam will be able to make games that will compete with western games from 2000. A true powerhouse indeed.

 

[Genesis]

Hi. I think the most important thing is : what the type of air to surface missile, those aircrafts bringing.
Not the quantity of aircrafts.

AB has advanced intercept missiles, better than specs of Type 055, but a Chinese guys here said that 1 Type 055 could handle hundreds Brahmos missiles. LOL.

Based on his logic, an AB could handle 60 aircrafts, mention that there's not aircraft armed with more advanced missiles than Brahmos missiles.

But it's unlikely 60 aircrafts to surround an AB or Type 055.

I wonder how an AB handle with Brahmos missiles. It's very interesting.

What you failed to realize isn't that the Brahmos is impotent, it is just a small piece of the puzzle. Modern warfare is all about a system, not just Naval, Ground and Air, now outer space also play a massive role.

even if Brahmos has a million miles radius, how would you target, where is the target, finding and locking on targets, precision strike is China's warfare of the 21st century.

Type 55 is just one piece of the puzzle, it's not more or less important than other pieces.

This isn't the Falklands and we are not the UK.

We can detect your launch sites, planes, and air fields and much more from a far further distance due to our AEW, and be able to precision target it far greater than than you due to satellites, and be able to data link target/enemy data to all our combatants, and distribute tasks to each individual missile and round.

All our systems are domestically designed and built, even if some parts are imported, the overall functions are completely home grown. The key to this is all our systems can be integrated seamlessly, because they are being built based on the same systems that came before it, and built exclusively to be used with other systems we have built.

We are not just an armory with weapons from a million nations, and how they all fit together is questionable at best.



Overall, you think a missile, a fighter, a tank, or just a single weapon comparison is good enough, it's certainly fun, but to get a real ideal of a country's ability to deal the hurt, you need to look at everything, from satellites of outer space, to the walky talkies in everyone's hands, they all affect the effectiveness of every single weapon.

 

[BoQ77]

genesis, I love your posts when they come to nowhere near nationalism, exaggeration.
Almost things are fine.

To be frank, Chinese is too optimistic when talk about under development equipments.
It's better to base on sure things.

It's believed that, Chinese also dare not to face the negative aspect.

 

[Genesis]

genesis, I love your posts when they come to nowhere near nationalism, exaggeration.
Almost things are fine.

To be frank, Chinese is too optimistic when talk about under development equipments.
It's better to base on sure things.

It's believed that, Chinese also dare not to face the negative aspect.

we are optimistic yes, but you might be a bit too skeptical. Like the J-15 and Liaoning, regardless of how good they are, they are our first step, and it's not like operating a ship like Liaoning has no precedent, the Russian's AC is the sister ship, and not as good as this one, due to it being made earlier and they made improvements on the Liaoning.

The Indian carrier wasn't even a full fledged carrier at first, and it's certainly much smaller.

Yes, we are facing an uphill battle for the Liaoning, but it's not like we are going into this head first, we done our research, and we do have about 20 years of building and operating 4th gen fighters, so it's not like we are raw.

The thing to keep in mind yes we exaggerate sometimes, even Americans do with their weapons, but most of the time it's within reason. Like the 055, it is about 10,000-12000 tons, and being that it can carry such and such, and seeing the developments of the 52D it's reasonable to conclude a few things.



As to the can't face negative aspects, recently Chinese exercises were targeted at the elites troops, they were all badly defeated by the newly made blue army. Head to head air battles happens often, and all new exercises are all about mobility and real combat situations. For example exercises are conducted between regions, so someone from Yunnan could go to Mongolia, while Beijing may go to Tibet, this is done to increase experience with moving troops at high speed and in combat formation.

You can say failures have been well published, and changes are still ongoing, though the mobilizations are getting better, though it's still a work in progress.

 

[hans]

Right
The military system of China is much advanced than VN.
Even VN has some modern aircraft, it can be solved easily.
AWACs can change quite a lot on air fight.

You should go to AB specific thread if you want to discuss that further.

But still, China has more option than Vietnam when the war ever happen. So they have huge advantage compared to you. Brasmos and Club S are only missiles. They are dangerous weapon. But with SAT and AWACs at Chinese disposal, their missiles will be deadlier than yours. It's not because Chinese AShM is better than Club S or Brasmos. But because they have more eyes to guide their missiles than yours.

 

[Beidou2020]

YJ-12 is more advanced than the Brahmos (Yakhont variant).

 

[BoQ77]

Right
The military system of China is much advanced than VN.
Even VN has some modern aircraft, it can be solved easily.
AWACs can change quite a lot on air fight.

They used to use "much advanced" to call USA during Vietnam war, or France during Indochina war.
So Vietnam will never try to overpass China in military system or 1vs1 tactic.

AWAC is 1 item in the purchase list of Vietnam, actually, there's some acted like mini-AWACs in Vietnam AF.

 

[hans]

Without China and Russia support, VN is no match for US.
VN fight with SAM from Russia and weapon from China..
Without these weapon, how could you defeat US???

AWACs is very expensive, Hope poor VN people can save some money for such an expensive toy..

They used to use "much advanced" to call USA during Vietnam war, or France during Indochina war.
So Vietnam will never try to overpass China in military system or 1vs1 tactic.

AWAC is 1 item in the purchase list of Vietnam, actually, there's some acted like mini-AWACs in Vietnam AF.

 

[BoQ77]

AWACs is very expensive, Hope poor VN people can save some money for such an expensive toy..

When we begin fighting with electronic warfare, AWAC. China still doesn't have knowledge on it.
Do you know how much for AWAC ?
EB-66
EB-57
EC121
SR-71
U2
UAV
was used during Vietnam War in 1960s

The E-2A entered U.S. Navy service on January 1964, and in April 1964 with VAW-11 at NAS North Island.[5] The first deployment was aboard the USS Kitty Hawk (CVA-63) during 1965.[24]

Since entering combat during the Vietnam War, the E-2 has served the US Navy around the world, acting as the electronic "eyes of the fleet".

---------------------------
U.S. Air Force Fact Sheet
BLINDING THE ENEMY: EB-66 ELECTRONIC WARFARE OVER NORTH VIETNAM

The first electronic warfare B-66 version sent to Southeast Asia was the RB-66C (later called the EB-66C). (U.S. Air Force photo)

Unarmed Douglas EB-66 electronic warfare aircraft detected and jammed enemy air defense radars. Though small in number, EB-66s and their crews remained in high demand as part of the total strike package in bombing missions against North Vietnam.
The North Vietnamese used radar signals to detect incoming aircraft, guide their MiG fighters, and aim surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) and antiaircraft guns. U.S. Air Force EB-66s conducted "electronic warfare" against these radars to render them useless.

The first USAF electronic warfare B-66s went to Southeast Asia in the spring of 1965. EB-66 crews detected and gathered information about enemy radar locations and frequencies. They also used jamming equipment to interrupt enemy radar signals.

USAF bombing missions deep into North Vietnam always required EB-66 support, even though there were relatively few EB-66s. Moreover, the B-66 was out of production, so repair and shortages of spare parts made it difficult to keep aircraft flying.

Losses further reduced the number of available aircraft. EB-66s were so successful that the enemy specifically targeted them. MiG fighters shot down one EB-66 and SAMs shot down five. Eleven more EB-66s were lost to accidents.

Despite these problems, EB-66 crews continued flying and providing essential support to strike aircraft to the end of the war in 1973.

 

[xunzi]

I don't even want to discuss with our delusional Vietnamese friend. They think they got Kilo, a couple missile, Brahmo or whatever that is, is going to defeat us. Let be honest here, a few EMP pop and couple cyber attack will knock all their guiding system out and make their electronic equipment becomes junk.

 

[hans]

I mean early warning aircraft with radar on it..
It can detect enemy aircraft at long distance and guide aircraft to intercept it.
What you list is only small plane used to scout.

When we begin fighting with electronic warfare, AWAC. China still doesn't have knowledge on it.
Do you know how much for AWAC ?
EB-66
SR-71
U2
UAV
was used during Vietnam War in 1960s

 

[BoQ77]

I mean early warning aircraft with radar on it..
It can detect enemy aircraft at long distance and guide aircraft to intercept it.
What you list is only small plane used to scout.

I add some pictures for your reference. Some of them still in service. Like U2, E2, SR-71 Blackbird ( one of the fastest aircraft so far. China never has any aircraft could race with SR-71 )

EC121, E2 ... EB-66 let find out more about them. All happen during 1960s - a half of a century ago.
-----------------------------------------
Look at this, Vietnam ordered them