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China backing out on power project

I hardly post article. Articles are bound to be bias. I present story, it is more your job to go and see what your favorite media has to say about it. Finally, it's not my fault that people are too lazy to click on the article and read it.

Someone in thread already posted article and I've wuoted article in posts as well.

Technically viable lol. Couldn't they figure it out 2 years ago? Now they've to make many changes to accommodate the new plan. So China HAS backed out. Don't try to sugar coat it by saying it's only 4 or of 10 that they'll make or it's technically viable (which article doesn't discuss and rather says that Pakistani gov't wanted all 10 plants).

And I'm in no way makings people want to people in my "bullshit." Look in the thread, everyone is saying that China and Pakistan friendship is the way US and pakistans were, self interest.

Here, read this: Federal govt all set to abandon flagship 6,600MW Gadani Coal Power projects

Gadani power project is impracticable, China refuses to invest: sources | Pakistan | Dunya News
Oh please, read the damn details before you post shit replies. It is neither financially viable for Pakistan, nor technically viable for China, which is why they've reduced the plants to 4. This can grow in the future, there is no one saying that 4 is the only amount being made, and none will be added in the future. 2 years is not a long time, things change, new realities emerge, how about you use critical thinking skills.

This isn't sugar coating anything, you're just taking a shit on a perfectly good piece of pie.

Self interest is every nation's priority, and it is in everyone's self interest to make this project happen.

[Edit]: By the way, if China wanted to abandon the project, they would have done so completely, but they're not. So much for your bullshit. Also, it's no surprise to me that a majority of the people who you say agree with you, they're almost exclusively Indian.
 
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6,600MW Gadani power project put on back burner - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

China is here for self interest. This "Deeper than deepest ocean" blah blah is only because if Chinese interest in region. If US was our neighbour, it'd be same story.

China isn't doing us any favor, rather we're doing them a favor due to the amount of concessions they get.

First lesson of economics class: There is no free lunch and there only exists self interest. The sooner my fellow majority Pakistanis realize this, the sooner Pakistan can grow stronger. Until then, it's a third world country and a puppet state. It has to dance to the tunes of international aid. "We give you X, if you do X for us, even if it means going against your religion or cultural values."


Interesting to see some many thanks given 22 & counting , mostly and all indian this is what we can just expect from most of them and nothing more so much hate unreal makes me sick and this about energy projects mind you not even regarding anything to do with defense . Coming back to the subject well yes every nation looks out for its interest Pakistan is not a safe country I hate to say and that being said is more then enough to even stop a best friend / all weather friend and etc etc to think twice its like putting your money close to fire and hoping that you get your return back and the money does not go to shit ..... " May ALLAH help us for the children of tomorrow " .
 
My takeaway from the article is this.

First this powerplant is just one of many projects that China is involved in in Pakistan. There are many other Chinese led projects across Pakistan that are going ahead just fine.

Secondly if there are technical and financial concerns with a project like this then is better to cancel the current plans and go back to the drawing board. Because if you push ahead with a project like this despite the financial and technical concerns it could potentially lead to a lot of economic and financial headaches for both China and Pakistan down the road. So cancelling this powerplant may have saved both China and Pakistan from a huge white elephant.

I'm rather disappointed by the fecklessness of some of the Pakistani members here about China Pakistan relations. China is just "out there to take advantage of Pakistan" or "China is just out there for profits". All because of a few setbacks in a few projects. China Pakistan relations is long standing and goes beyond just a few powerplants here and there. There is a very strong political and strategic element in it and lets not forget that China is not only selling Pakistan weapons but is also helping Pakistan build an entire defense industry with tech transfers for very little money. The know how that China is giving to Pakistan is worth many times more than the weapons itself. And no one else in the world will sell this know how to you and help you build your own defense industry but China.
 
Persons makes nation, Mindset of people in Pakistan is that only one who keeps showering goodies and ready to support you in your fights is your friend. This kind of relationship doesn't last long unless it's two-way street and it's applicable on personal level as well as national level. If you are so incompetent and corrupt to fix your nation than why blame others? Does "Deeper than Ocean and Higher than Mountain Friendship" means that China should take all responsibility of solving your problems while you keep yourself busy in looting & plundering?

As the thread is related to money and your first line in post is questing China's intention (And this is your 2nd such thread) rather than find out the reason what the hell is wrong with us that no-investor is coming to country and now even closest friend is also deferring plans.
China doesn't own Pakistan, so they need not to take all responsibility of solving our problems. But to say China has no self interest in projects and back out where they don't find much profits for themselves isn't a bright move.

US supported Pakistan despite us supporting the "good Taliban." These very people would take shelter in Pakistan and attack US, Afghanistan and India. So lets change the words around, "If US does not see profits to be returned, it still gives aid/help with projects. Meanwhile, China, Pakistan's closest ally backs out on projects because it doesn't see proftits to be made." This brings it to a point, US is a deeper than deepest ocean and blah blah for Pakistan. It gives her aid, military stuff and so forth and in the end, we're fighting a common enemy. They found Osama in Pakistan, yet they continue to support us. US can simply withdraw and leave us in ruins, no more aid, development fund and whatnot, but it gives free lunch (albeit with conditions, such as eliminating good Taliban too, even though at times Pakistan refused).

Finally, we've so many projects that if we have open bidding will we get some actual stuff happening. Do you remember the cheap train engines we bought from China in PPP? They were useless engines. So we're doing China a favor and China isn't doing us any favor. We give them real money. If India sold us such engines, we'd have taken them to international court for damages.

My takeaway from the article is this.

First this powerplant is just one of many projects that China is involved in in Pakistan. There are many other Chinese led projects across Pakistan that are going ahead just fine.

Secondly if there are technical and financial concerns with a project like this then is better to cancel the current plans and go back to the drawing board. Because if you push ahead with a project like this despite the financial and technical concerns it could potentially lead to a lot of economic and financial headaches for both China and Pakistan down the road. So cancelling this powerplant may have saved both China and Pakistan from a huge white elephant.

I'm rather disappointed by the fecklessness of some of the Pakistani members here about China Pakistan relations. China is just "out there to take advantage of Pakistan" or "China is just out there for profits". All because of a few setbacks in a few projects. China Pakistan relations is long standing and goes beyond just a few powerplants here and there. There is a very strong political and strategic element in it and lets not forget that China is not only selling Pakistan weapons but is also helping Pakistan build an entire defense industry with tech transfers for very little money. The know how that China is giving to Pakistan is worth many times more than the weapons itself. And no one else in the world will sell this know how to you and help you build your own defense industry but China.
There was money to be made. Before China actually agreed to project, Nawaz already inaugurated the project (some ceremony). The deal's condition were also not made public. This whole project was in a rush and the gov't pleased China (concessions), itself (kickbacks) and hoped that electricity problem will be solved too. Everyone is happy in the end. But it didn't work out in the end.

Oh please, read the damn details before you post shit replies. It is neither financially viable for Pakistan, nor technically viable for China, which is why they've reduced the plants to 4. This can grow in the future, there is no one saying that 4 is the only amount being made, and none will be added in the future. 2 years is not a long time, things change, new realities emerge, how about you use critical thinking skills.

This isn't sugar coating anything, you're just taking a shit on a perfectly good piece of pie.

Self interest is every nation's priority, and it is in everyone's self interest to make this project happen.

[Edit]: By the way, if China wanted to abandon the project, they would have done so completely, but they're not. So much for your bullshit. Also, it's no surprise to me that a majority of the people who you say agree with you, they're almost exclusively Indian.
Um, why don't you read the article again? It clearly states that Pakistan wanted to pursue this project and even gave concessions to China (guarantees and letting them change from DC to AC). Certainly Pakistan found this project "financially viable" but Chinese investors didn't. They were worried they wouldn't get the electricity sales. Now Pakistan have to spend more money redesigning the entire project.

This project took 2 years of time and was meant to come online in 2017. Don't ignore the fact that because this project won't be coming online sooner, Pakistan will continue to face load shedding problem and it'll harm our industries. The amount of productivity of 5000w in a given year or two can easily run into billions of rupees.

"
The committee was told that memorandums of understanding were also signed with China under China-Pakistan Economic Corridor Project for 10 Gadani Power Projects, but later Beijing scaled down its priority over financial and technical apprehensions. For example, the Chinese had concerns over payment issues against electricity sales after the completion of projects and suggested AC, instead of DC, circuit transmission line.

The parliamentary panel was informed Pakistan had even agreed to set up a revolving fund to facilitate direct payments to power producers against electricity sales and was ready to set up AC circuit transmission line, but China reduced the number of projects to four from 10.

As a consequence, Pakistan had to redesign the entire project because transmission line and port facilities also needed to be in consonance with 2,600MW, instead of 6,600MW, but the Chinese side reduced Gwadar Power Park on its priority order."

For your edit, take a closer look. It isn't just Indians that say China is looking out for its self interest. It isn't "almost," it's quite more than that. Even 2jungibaaz agreed :P
 
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China doesn't own Pakistan, so they need not to take all responsibility of solving our problems. But to say China has no self interest in projects and back out where they don't find much profits for themselves isn't a bright move.

US supported Pakistan despite us supporting the "good Taliban." These very people would take shelter in Pakistan and attack US, Afghanistan and India. So lets change the words around, "If US does not see profits to be returned, it still gives aid/help with projects. Meanwhile, China, Pakistan's closest ally backs out on projects because it doesn't see proftits to be made." This brings it to a point, US is a deeper than deepest ocean and blah blah for Pakistan. It gives her aid, military stuff and so forth and in the end, we're fighting a common enemy. They found Osama in Pakistan, yet they continue to support us. US can simply withdraw and leave us in ruins, no more aid, development fund and whatnot, but it gives free lunch (albeit with conditions, such as eliminating good Taliban too, even though at times Pakistan refused).

Finally, we've so many projects that if we have open bidding will we get some actual stuff happening. Do you remember the cheap train engines we bought from China in PPP? They were useless engines. So we're doing China a favor and China isn't doing us any favor. We give them real money. If India sold us such engines, we'd have taken them to international court for damages.

Flawed comparisons and examples - USAID is bribe specifically meant for US's strategic interests while the project you are basing to bash China is an investment project / business deal. And only fools like think that US spent over trillion dollar on Afghan war just to go back. US is giving free lunch? LOL!!! You forget the your own first lesson of economic class?

Re: Railway engine - does Chinese govt. sold you those engines to Pakistan? If your own people are corrupt and bought the cheapest things and stashed money in their piggy banks than what's fault of China as country in it?
 
Flawed comparisons and examples - USAID is bribe specifically meant for US's strategic interests while the project you are basing to bash China is an investment project / business deal. And only fools like think that US spent over trillion dollar on Afghan war just to go back. US is giving free lunch? LOL!!! You forget the your own first lesson of economic class?

Re: Railway engine - does Chinese govt. sold you those engines to Pakistan? If your own people are corrupt and bought the cheapest things and stashed money in their piggy banks than what's fault of China as country in it?
1) LOL you forgot to read in the bracket where I did say there were conditions attached to the free lunch (my point was, US's free lunch carries less strings than China in recent times).

2) Pakistan | Energy | U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID helping Pakistan with power generation and not backing out even though there are no profits here)

3) China looked at its self interest. Let's use your example, even though it is flawed. Will you sell your friend a laptop that you know is going to break after few months and you refuse to tell him?
 
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LOL you forgot to read in the bracket where I did say there were conditions

How it's free lunch than? It's simple the price of wishlist of US but even if for argument sake i consider it free money than the way you are praising US for giving money in your post is exactly the mindset i mentioned in my earlier post. i.e. Only one who can keep showering money is friend. Quit the begging bowl mentality and fix your home first before taking jibe over others.
 
How it's free lunch than? It's simple the price of wishlist of US but even if for argument sake i consider it free money than the way you are praising US for giving money in your post is exactly the mindset i mentioned in my earlier post. i.e. Only one who can keep showering money is friend. Quit the begging bowl mentality and fix your home first before taking jibe over others.
Read my post again, I edited it.

It is freer lunch than China. US expects Pakistan to eliminate good Taliban. China wants Pakistan to keep the Taliban away from China and also gain profits in projects.

My point was, US's friendship is deeper than ocean etc because they look for "less" self interest than China. I'm not saying that whoever gives us free money is our best friend (which is what you claimed multiple times), which goes against what I said in OP that there are no free lunch. US doesn't say "hey, we won't get our profits back so we aint going ahead with this project, bye bye"

Want to help and get something in return? Cool, that's true friendship. But to be so selfish and not look out for your friend (sell cheap engines knownlingly they won't last) is not true friendship. It's funny you failed to discuss this analogy.
 
china may not back out due to their politcal muscle in pakistan but international companies will due to pakistan multiple times defaulting in power sector
Hehe! Central Committee can always order state owned companies to build these for Pakistan with the backing of China EXIM or CDB.

:D
 
China has got some very good weapons and though yes chinese dont care about any one but their own interests , still i think we need china on our side strategically

Chill out . They will sign during Xi Jinping visit for pakistan day . This what they do . Just to make his trip most important for pakistan . I guess

They will need some one to junk their cheep goods.
First time something cool coming out of your mouth for Pakistan
 
China doesn't own Pakistan, so they need not to take all responsibility of solving our problems. But to say China has no self interest in projects and back out where they don't find much profits for themselves isn't a bright move.

US supported Pakistan despite us supporting the "good Taliban." These very people would take shelter in Pakistan and attack US, Afghanistan and India. So lets change the words around, "If US does not see profits to be returned, it still gives aid/help with projects. Meanwhile, China, Pakistan's closest ally backs out on projects because it doesn't see proftits to be made." This brings it to a point, US is a deeper than deepest ocean and blah blah for Pakistan. It gives her aid, military stuff and so forth and in the end, we're fighting a common enemy. They found Osama in Pakistan, yet they continue to support us. US can simply withdraw and leave us in ruins, no more aid, development fund and whatnot, but it gives free lunch (albeit with conditions, such as eliminating good Taliban too, even though at times Pakistan refused).

Finally, we've so many projects that if we have open bidding will we get some actual stuff happening. Do you remember the cheap train engines we bought from China in PPP? They were useless engines. So we're doing China a favor and China isn't doing us any favor. We give them real money. If India sold us such engines, we'd have taken them to international court for damages.


There was money to be made. Before China actually agreed to project, Nawaz already inaugurated the project (some ceremony). The deal's condition were also not made public. This whole project was in a rush and the gov't pleased China (concessions), itself (kickbacks) and hoped that electricity problem will be solved too. Everyone is happy in the end. But it didn't work out in the end.


Um, why don't you read the article again? It clearly states that Pakistan wanted to pursue this project and even gave concessions to China (guarantees and letting them change from DC to AC). Certainly Pakistan found this project "financially viable" but Chinese investors didn't. They were worried they wouldn't get the electricity sales. Now Pakistan have to spend more money redesigning the entire project.

This project took 2 years of time and was meant to come online in 2017. Don't ignore the fact that because this project won't be coming online sooner, Pakistan will continue to face load shedding problem and it'll harm our industries. The amount of productivity of 5000w in a given year or two can easily run into billions of rupees.

"
The committee was told that memorandums of understanding were also signed with China under China-Pakistan Economic Corridor Project for 10 Gadani Power Projects, but later Beijing scaled down its priority over financial and technical apprehensions. For example, the Chinese had concerns over payment issues against electricity sales after the completion of projects and suggested AC, instead of DC, circuit transmission line.

The parliamentary panel was informed Pakistan had even agreed to set up a revolving fund to facilitate direct payments to power producers against electricity sales and was ready to set up AC circuit transmission line, but China reduced the number of projects to four from 10.

As a consequence, Pakistan had to redesign the entire project because transmission line and port facilities also needed to be in consonance with 2,600MW, instead of 6,600MW, but the Chinese side reduced Gwadar Power Park on its priority order."

For your edit, take a closer look. It isn't just Indians that say China is looking out for its self interest. It isn't "almost," it's quite more than that. Even 2jungibaaz agreed :P





US billions dollars aids paid off as the collateral damage for the drone strike inside Pakistan territories. How many innocent Pakistan lost their lives because of the US fought a war in Afghanistan? You can't compare the amount of aids US provided to Pakistan as the payment for access Pakistan road to deliver logistic support to the ?US troop in Afghan, no Pakistanis died directly or indirectly caused by China involves in a war against Taliban and terrorist, for China to make a good investment in Pakistan will benefit Pakistan the most in the long run and China future will reap the reward in their investment in Pakistan, Pakistan can't expect China to invest 10 billions dollars in the Pakistan power plant and not carefully study how much of their invest can generate profit with the operating of the 10 power plant, if China to lose billions dollars in investment of 10 power plant, you should expect any investor to scale down their investment to minimize the lost. China didn't completely cancel the construction of all 10 power plant, China simply stated let start build 4 power plant 1st and in the future China can help Pakistan to build more if the power plant bring more return to the investment.
 
US billions dollars aids paid off as the collateral damage for the drone strike inside Pakistan territories. How many innocent Pakistan lost their lives because of the US fought a war in Afghanistan? You can't compare the amount of aids US provided to Pakistan as the payment for access Pakistan road to deliver logistic support to the ?US troop in Afghan, no Pakistanis died directly or indirectly caused by China involves in a war against Taliban and terrorist, for China to make a good investment in Pakistan will benefit Pakistan the most in the long run and China future will reap the reward in their investment in Pakistan, Pakistan can't expect China to invest 10 billions dollars in the Pakistan power plant and not carefully study how much of their invest can generate profit with the operating of the 10 power plant, if China to lose billions dollars in investment of 10 power plant, you should expect any investor to scale down their investment to minimize the lost. China didn't completely cancel the construction of all 10 power plant, China simply stated let start build 4 power plant 1st and in the future China can help Pakistan to build more if the power plant bring more return to the investment.
USAID is a global thing. Does US drones every country?

US provides aids (even when we stop the supply route unless I'm wrong) and also pays for transportation of goods. Plus, as they leave Afghanistan, they'll be giving many goodies free or at la little cost to Pakistan. It wasn't a 10 billion dollar project, rather 6-8. Don't just randomly add 2 billion dollars to it. Mind you, they could've made it cheaper, but there are a lot of kick backs happening. Why is China building it? Why not US, French or some other country helping out? And lets not forget the current gov't must be enjoying kickbacks, since the deal wasn't made public.

And how exactly will china lose billions of dollars of investment? Pakistan is giving guarantees. If they think it's risky to invest, then why even go with 4 power plants. This doesn't add up.
 
My takeaway from the article is this.

First this powerplant is just one of many projects that China is involved in in Pakistan. There are many other Chinese led projects across Pakistan that are going ahead just fine.

Secondly if there are technical and financial concerns with a project like this then is better to cancel the current plans and go back to the drawing board. Because if you push ahead with a project like this despite the financial and technical concerns it could potentially lead to a lot of economic and financial headaches for both China and Pakistan down the road. So cancelling this powerplant may have saved both China and Pakistan from a huge white elephant.

I'm rather disappointed by the fecklessness of some of the Pakistani members here about China Pakistan relations. China is just "out there to take advantage of Pakistan" or "China is just out there for profits". All because of a few setbacks in a few projects. China Pakistan relations is long standing and goes beyond just a few powerplants here and there. There is a very strong political and strategic element in it and lets not forget that China is not only selling Pakistan weapons but is also helping Pakistan build an entire defense industry with tech transfers for very little money. The know how that China is giving to Pakistan is worth many times more than the weapons itself. And no one else in the world will sell this know how to you and help you build your own defense industry but China.
I agree with many facts, but Pakistan has operated western defense weapons for 6+ decades including US, British, French aircraft, submarines, ships etc.. and many of China's defense products today had input from Pakistan. Pakistan Air Force even today maintains the largest inventory of French Mirages after the French Air Force.
 
USAID is a global thing. Does US drones every country?

US provides aids (even when we stop the supply route unless I'm wrong) and also pays for transportation of goods. Plus, as they leave Afghanistan, they'll be giving many goodies free or at la little cost to Pakistan. It wasn't a 10 billion dollar project, rather 6-8. Don't just randomly add 2 billion dollars to it. Mind you, they could've made it cheaper, but there are a lot of kick backs happening. Why is China building it? Why not US, French or some other country helping out? And lets not forget the current gov't must be enjoying kickbacks, since the deal wasn't made public.

And how exactly will china lose billions of dollars of investment? Pakistan is giving guarantees. If they think it's risky to invest, then why even go with 4 power plants. This doesn't add up.
I



Pakistan doesn't have the fund to pay either US or French to build the power plant, China is the only nation willing to fund the project and build the power plant.
 
How can china want to invest in delhi- chennai bullet train but not interested in Pakistan power projects. Deeper than ocean, higher than Himalaya, sweater than honey....China know that they will not get their money back as big customers like railway, govt department, army, madarsa hardly pay for electricity.
 
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