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China backing out on power project

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Pakistan doesn't have the fund to pay either US or French to build the power plant, China is the only nation willing to fund the project and build the power plant.




US don't operate their drone strike with a high frequency to killed the Alquida in Africa. Taliban were endanger US military in Afghanistan so US increase the numbers of drone strike to cut off the Taliban in Pakistan, the more drones strike, more of the collateral damage it incurred.
 
Um, why don't you read the article again? It clearly states that Pakistan wanted to pursue this project and even gave concessions to China (guarantees and letting them change from DC to AC). Certainly Pakistan found this project "financially viable" but Chinese investors didn't. They were worried they wouldn't get the electricity sales. Now Pakistan have to spend more money redesigning the entire project.
The design process isn't that expensive, and now you're changing the entire argument. You forgot to mention that Pakistan was hoping to pay for all of this using Chinese investments that they hoped would top $40 billion dollars, don't tell me to read the article when all you do is nitpick.

This project took 2 years of time and was meant to come online in 2017. Don't ignore the fact that because this project won't be coming online sooner, Pakistan will continue to face load shedding problem and it'll harm our industries. The amount of productivity of 5000w in a given year or two can easily run into billions of rupees.

Delays happen when it comes to large projects. The larger the project, the higher the chance of time and cost overruns. That's basic project management 101. Of course Pakistan is going to continue facing loadshedding, this will continue until the power projects are completed, and guess what, this isn't the only project in progress. This is just one of many.

The committee was told that memorandums of understanding were also signed with China under China-Pakistan Economic Corridor Project for 10 Gadani Power Projects, but later Beijing scaled down its priority over financial and technical apprehensions. For example, the Chinese had concerns over payment issues against electricity sales after the completion of projects and suggested AC, instead of DC, circuit transmission line.
a MoU is not a treaty, it is simply a declaration of intent and is not legally binding. Beijing had every right to present it's views and downscale as it saw fit.

The parliamentary panel was informed Pakistan had even agreed to set up a revolving fund to facilitate direct payments to power producers against electricity sales and was ready to set up AC circuit transmission line, but China reduced the number of projects to four from 10.

As a consequence, Pakistan had to redesign the entire project because transmission line and port facilities also needed to be in consonance with 2,600MW, instead of 6,600MW, but the Chinese side reduced Gwadar Power Park on its priority order."

Already been addressed multiple times. Read the quote you copied yourself, it completely contradicts your claim of China backing out of the project. Downsizing is not the same as backing out, like you seem to pretend it means.

For your edit, take a closer look. It isn't just Indians that say China is looking out for its self interest. It isn't "almost," it's quite more than that. Even 2jungibaaz agreed :P
Looking through the comment, yeah, it pretty much is mostly Indians. Out side of maybe 3 Pakistanis, everyone else is Indian.

Jungibaaz may be a mod, but he's still a guy with his own opinion, that doesn't automatically make what you say any more relevant or true for that matter.

And this proves what? Deals occur and can collapse at any time. Pakistan and China has hundreds of projects that they're working on, with most of them on track. You've posted a few exceptions, not the rule itself.
 
The design process isn't that expensive, and now you're changing the entire argument. You forgot to mention that Pakistan was hoping to pay for all of this using Chinese investments that they hoped would top $40 billion dollars, don't tell me to read the article when all you do is nitpick.



Delays happen when it comes to large projects. The larger the project, the higher the chance of time and cost overruns. That's basic project management 101. Of course Pakistan is going to continue facing loadshedding, this will continue until the power projects are completed, and guess what, this isn't the only project in progress. This is just one of many.


a MoU is not a treaty, it is simply a declaration of intent and is not legally binding. Beijing had every right to present it's views and downscale as it saw fit.



Already been addressed multiple times. Read the quote you copied yourself, it completely contradicts your claim of China backing out of the project. Downsizing is not the same as backing out, like you seem to pretend it means.


Looking through the comment, yeah, it pretty much is mostly Indians. Out side of maybe 3 Pakistanis, everyone else is Indian.

Jungibaaz may be a mod, but he's still a guy with his own opinion, that doesn't automatically make what you say any more relevant or true for that matter.


And this proves what? Deals occur and can collapse at any time. Pakistan and China has hundreds of projects that they're working on, with most of them on track. You've posted a few exceptions, not the rule itself.


Do you have source to tell that the design process isn't expensive?

Al though it is one of many, it is still nonetheless loss of some 5000w that we were going to get slowly done by 2017.

Yeah, China went for its self interest. It withdrew from part of the project when its interests were not satisfactory.

My quote was referring to something else. Go read it again. It wasn't in reply to whether they were backing our or not. You're trying to make new stuff out of the quotes to fit your opinions.

I referred jungibaaz to as Pakistani. Just because webmaster agrees with me doesn't mean the opinion triumps everyone else. The point was, there are far more pakistans than "3."

How can china want to invest in delhi- chennai bullet train but not interested in Pakistan power projects. Deeper than ocean, higher than Himalaya, sweater than honey....China know that they will not get their money back as big customers like railway, govt department, army, madarsa hardly pay for electricity.
Don't forget 100 of billions of dollars of trade between india and china.

I guess higher than mount Everest for you guys.
 
Interesting to see some many thanks given 22 & counting , mostly and all indian this is what we can just expect from most of them and nothing more so much hate unreal makes me sick and this about energy projects mind you not even regarding anything to do with defense . Coming back to the subject well yes every nation looks out for its interest Pakistan is not a safe country I hate to say and that being said is more then enough to even stop a best friend / all weather friend and etc etc to think twice its like putting your money close to fire and hoping that you get your return back and the money does not go to shit ..... " May ALLAH help us for the children of tomorrow " .
What is even funnier is how they(indians) all came running to this thread lol. First page is flooded with them. Seriously, these people have no life at all. Spending every minute here hoping to find something negative about Pakistan and rushing in to comment. Hilarious.
 
Maybe it was not just commercially viable and they decided it was not worth investing in, business is business at the end of the day it is not personal.
 
I agree & this is where Gen. Musharraf was successful he was limited with every country & did not allow unlimited access to any country.
 
Do you have source to tell that the design process isn't expensive
It's common sense. Design documentation does not require massive labor, nor a large material cost. The designing process is simply to see if a certain design is viable, so a proof of concept is the most that occurs, thus the low cost. Logical thinking.

Al though it is one of many, it is still nonetheless loss of some 5000w that we were going to get slowly done by 2017.
It is not a loss, as Pakistan didn't have it in the first place. This is not what the term "loss" means.

Yeah, China went for its self interest. It withdrew from part of the project when its interests were not satisfactory.
It hasn't withdrawn, how many times do I have to tell you this. You even quoted the damn source that you posted that proved it was not withdrawing. Downsizing does not equate to withdrawing. Why is this concept so hard for you to understand?

My quote was referring to something else. Go read it again. It wasn't in reply to whether they were backing our or not. You're trying to make new stuff out of the quotes to fit your opinions.
What, pray tell, did you mean? What was it in reply to? I'm not bringing anything new to this discussion, don't make shit up because you have no way to counter my argument.

I referred jungibaaz to as Pakistani. Just because webmaster agrees with me doesn't mean the opinion triumps everyone else. The point was, there are far more pakistans than "3."
A few does not equate to a lot. Out of the 24 people that agreed with your original post, I count 19 of them as Indians, with 2 people who's background I do not know, and at least 3 people who're Pakistani. The rest of your posts, I've skimmed over as many as I could find, and it's the same people (mainly Indians) who agreed with your original post, agreeing with your other ones. You're clearly a self-loathing Pakistani, that much is clear.

Don't lie to me, when the evidence is there for the world to see.
 
There, I spotted one overly nationalist.

Tell me, why is it a problem to give "MFN" status to India? Because it says "Most favorite nation" (or whatever is called)? They had to change the name in order to give to India (still haven't given yet) because it sounded so wrong to Pakistanis. India and most favorite? ewww

Meanwhile india has given us MFN status long long time ago.

India will never get mfn because three major groups are opposed to it. The business community, remittance sending overseas Pakistanis, and even the army.
 
There was money to be made. Before China actually agreed to project, Nawaz already inaugurated the project (some ceremony). The deal's condition were also not made public. This whole project was in a rush and the gov't pleased China (concessions), itself (kickbacks) and hoped that electricity problem will be solved too. Everyone is happy in the end. But it didn't work out in the end.
That's the point. The entire project was rushed and the technical and financial aspects haven't been fully thought through. And when the details became clear and that the plans on the table isn't financially and technically viable China pulled out saving both China and Pakistan from a white elephant. I'll leave it in the middle rather it is China or Pakistan that is to blame for this situation, probably both.
I agree with many facts, but Pakistan has operated western defense weapons for 6+ decades including US, British, French aircraft, submarines, ships etc.. and many of China's defense products today had input from Pakistan. Pakistan Air Force even today maintains the largest inventory of French Mirages after the French Air Force.
The relationship between Pakistan and China has been mutually beneficial and has been ongoing for more than 50 years. So a few collapsed deal means nothing.
 
the issue is with the commissions and the level of corruption and mismanagement of the successive "democratic" governments. Chinese have their limits. Iran's gas pipeline was cancelled, Sherifs got $1.5 billion reward from the Saudis for breaking and sabotaging it .. we got power crises and Irma n and Operation Zarb e azab stands blamed and now Khawaja Asif and Abid Sher Ali will blame the Chinese for the crises.
well done.
@Leader wonder where $1.5 Billion hallal dollars went?

Nawaz business profits increased 150%, while national institutions are doomed, pmln has failed to initiate a single project, gave IPPs circular debt money without audit.. Im looking to a total collapse of the system this summer..
 
That's the point. The entire project was rushed and the technical and financial aspects haven't been fully thought through. And when the details became clear and that the plans on the table isn't financially and technically viable China pulled out saving both China and Pakistan from a white elephant. I'll leave it in the middle rather it is China or Pakistan that is to blame for this situation, probably both.

The relationship between Pakistan and China has been mutually beneficial and has been ongoing for more than 50 years. So a few collapsed deal means nothing.
I think Pakistan would've pursued it despite the financial implication, if they raised any. There is a lot of money to be made while doing the project too. Hint: Look at Islamabad airport. It was started by Musharraf, and it has been delayed at least 3 times. It'd probably complete by 2017/2018, when there will be a new gov't. So a simple airport in the middle of nowhere takes concludes after 4 gov'ts change.

Assuming if another corrupt gov't comes in 2018, it may be delayed even further!
 
Doesn't matter, because the 2x660 MW HUBCO coal power project is already in the execution phase with Chinese and Hubco having 51% and 49% share respectively....it is just a few Km from Gadani.....It is better to do joint ventures.
 
Nawaz business profits increased 150%, while national institutions are doomed, pmln has failed to initiate a single project, gave IPPs circular debt money without audit.. Im looking to a total collapse of the system this summer..
System won't collapse. They'll take in more loans.

They rather dry out Pakistan through 2018 rather than all at once. You can make more money slowly in 5 years instead of making it in one year.

Look at Islamabad airport, 10+ years its going to take to build it.

Doesn't matter, because the 2x660 MW HUBCO coal power project is already in the execution phase with Chinese and Hubco having 51% and 49% share respectively....it is just a few Km from Gadani.....It is better to do joint ventures.
Do you know what is our current production (if we're able to run everything at capacity).

I want to know if gov't has added extra MW or it is still the same amount as before and only plants are being replaced etc.
 
System won't collapse. They'll take in more loans.

They rather dry out Pakistan through 2018 rather than all at once. You can make more money slowly in 5 years instead of making it in one year.

Look at Islamabad airport, 10+ years its going to take to build it.


Do you know what is our current production (if we're able to run everything at capacity).

I want to know if gov't has added extra MW or it is still the same amount as before and only plants are being replaced etc.

It's pretty much more or less same in the past 3-4 years. However, with new projects coming online in the next 4 years (coal, Chashma Nuclear, hydro, solar, wind) expect a marginal increase. Our actual installed capacity is already more than 20,000 MW, however it barely produces that much due to fuel shortage, water shortage, maintenance etc.
 
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