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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

While we all know that J-10B will have a rampless inlet and the new DSI, other changes are being talked about in Pakistan Air Force Circles. Change to DSI has resulted in reducing weight by 180 kg.

Others changes they have mentioned and I cannot confirm them besides the known DSI include, an
Active Phased Array radar,
Super Cruise (work started couple of years ago)-that means the engine may be WS-10B
RCS cut down ro 0.3m2 (But is that empty or with weapons. It cannot be that low with stores hanging to the body).
Appearance is also said to be different than a J-10A
Let us wait. If Pakistan is to receive this aircraft, these changes are no minor one.
 
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Sir, Could it be typhoonized, "canard delta wing" with extensive use of composites to reduce weight.

Bhai! I really do not know about the canards. But I know for fact that China acquired one of the leading composite manufactuting company. Having access to it, we may see it in future as this aircraft further evolves.
 
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Bhai! I really do not know about the canards. But I know for fact that China acquired one of the leading composite manufactuting company. Having access to it, we may see it in future as this aircraft further evolves.
I was reading an article which mentioned sensor fusion as well, it was mentioned that the weight loss by composite was made up adding AESA and newer avionics, so for super cruise, may a limited one like Grippen but not a typical SC such as F-22A. The article also mentioned the possibility DAS and CIP. but given rumor that Chinese will test their EO DAS on J-20 (2003), I have doubts on that, yet top speed is increased to Mach 2+.
 
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Some people say, J-10 is a light machine, J-11 is a heavy-duty machine, J-10 J-11 air combat performance compared to, not a grade. The fact that this ruthless answer: in 2006 at the J-10 and SU-27SK confrontation, a J-10 face four SU-27SK, before the enemy discovered, before the enemy opened fire, made a 4:0 impressive record.
In fact, J-10 is not a light machine, its empty weight about 8.6 tonnes maximum take-off weight of about 19.2 tons, belonging to medium-sized machine; FC-1, JAS-39 is the light machine (J-10 the maximum speed 2.2MH, maximum static or limit close to 21,000 meters, the largest mobile service ceiling greater than 2.2 meters and maximum range of 3,500 km, the maximum combat radius of 1350 km, the maximum payload of 7 tons). If in 90 years, SU-27SK is a good fighter, but the 21st century, its avionics, weapons, has lagged behind. J-11 is the Chinese SU-27SK production version of its 00,01,02,03,04 total of five batches of about 100, increasing degree of localization. 00-02 is basically the original batch of SU-27SK; 03,04 gradually switched to homemade batch of radar and other avionics, some capable of firing homemade PL-12 missile, greatly increased combat capability. At present most of the old J-11 avionics have been upgraded, previously only semi-active launch of R-27, launched the initiative to upgrade the R-77, enhanced operational capability. But whether it is switched to the new avionics domestic J-11, or upgrade the old J-11, several times in recent years, the confrontation are not the J-10 opponent.
Heavy machine on the body side, large payload, range far, combat radius, stayed in the air for a long time; on the avionics side said, because more space, you can use a larger and more complex devices (such as larger diameter radar etc.), more powerful, more versatile. So the same level of technology, heavy-duty machine is stronger than the light air performance machine - but the premise is the same technology.
Pneumatic design three generations of such a development process: the energy of the 1970s era of the instantaneous motor → 80 → 90 years of motor stall maneuver (ultra-mobile). SU-27SK fighter maneuver is typical of the energy, the instantaneous motor theory of the birth of a typhoon gust, Gripen and other European 3.5 generation. Emphasis on air combat maneuvering instantaneous change in an instant the nose point, with large off-axis angle can launch missiles on the enemy attack. Instantaneous motor theory in our product is J-10. J-10 engine thrust is not as big push than not high, according to the energy motor theory, the stable set of SU-27SK is not dominant, but he has a lot more than the SU-27SK excellent instantaneous plate (31 °), often given priority in fighting locked SU-27SK. Conventional wisdom is that, canard stall angle of attack of 35 degrees, which is proposed by the Israelis, and later the importance for countries, the maximum angle of attack, the French Rafale will be limited to 28 degrees, the Chinese J-10 is limited to 26 degrees (SU-27 to 28 degrees), so that at high angles of attack aviation general performance, as good as conventional canard layout, because duck wing stall angle of attack limits the canard of the high angle of attack performance. However, in-stall flight, the Chinese test pilot indeed found another phenomenon, namely the F-10 high angle of attack control performance is far more than the Su-27 (ie, J-10 Cobra maneuver in the flight than the Su-27's perspective ). This information was first disclosed by the mine strong, but the traditional values held by users of the widely questioned. Research into the flight, that's mine strong argument.
J-10 not only has excellent instantaneous plate, all-digital fax (J-11 is the analog fax), flying fire crosslinking technology to significantly relax the static instability (11%) and integrated pneumatic control technology ( 90) brought back to its superior agility and flying qualities. J-10's air combat performance in all of China's active fighters, you can use the "tough" words to describe.
Advantage of the J-10 supersonic motor is still in its outstanding performance. If the emphasis on high-altitude high-speed second-generation fighter, three generations of machine stress in the low-altitude, sub-transonic combat performance, the fourth generation machine part to emphasize that the supersonic motor performance (super patrol, ultra-mobility). SU-27SK Although the maximum speed than the J-10 large (SU-27 largest 2.35MH, J-10 largest 2.2MH), but the standard aerial mounted under the (4 2 near) its maximum speed will drop to 1.7MH the following, and J-10 (2 of 2 past) is greater than 1.9MH, and in the supersonic phase has better mobility. In the SU-27SK and J-10's confrontation, but often there playing, running captive situation.
J-10 is a full airspace, air superiority fighter full speed, before 2010, J-10 has long been a king in the air.
J-10 just in 2004, while serving the avionics system is not perfect; 2005 started perfect follow-up each batch has a new and improved, the old batch were also upgraded. Forum commonly known as J-10A.
J-11 and not at a standstill, the use of Western design standards, our avionics technology, J-11B first flight in 2003 (reportedly still using analog fax), finalized in 2007 and served. J-11B made of the original plan to use the Taihang engine, but because the line performance is not too stable, the first batch of a group of J-11B is still used in AL-31F. The first half of 2008-2009, the line continues not to force too, J-11B accumulate a lot of body but no engine available. Second half of 2009, the line is too basic to solve the problem, J-11B in late 2009 or early 2010, high-volume service. The current production of about 80 aircraft.
The first batch of equipment AL-31F performance of the J-11B is not stable, a few problems, 2010 has not been an effective fighting formation. 2010 and J-10A is carried out against the unknown, there have been rumors of fight, but the result is not very satisfactory. Taihang version of the J-11B, and this may be against the J-10A, is very much looking forward to individuals.
J-10A of the 1473 radar diameter of about 700mm, the target of 3 m ² effective detection distance of about 120 kilometers, J-11B's 1493 radar diameter 960 mm, the target of 3 m ² effective detection range of about 150 km. J-11B over the horizon looks like the attack on the J-10A enjoy the advantage. But the reality did not so simple.
In modern air combat, air combat are the two sides began a silent flight, to provide early warning of enemy targets by the general direction. About 80 km away from both sides to open the radar search and track targets, about 40 km in the missile attacks began. J-11B radar so far away from the benefits are not obvious, and its RCS has a larger offset this advantage.


J-10 first flew in 1998, 2004, setting service, the number more than 200 aircraft currently in production. J-10 has just made public, the official media have called 3.5 generation, and later renamed the third generation. The reason is, J-10, though they have advanced design concepts, but the lack of engine thrust, avionics, weapons performance, advanced enough, and and J-11B, is currently mainly used for air superiority operations, the ground is not strong.
In 2008, J-10B first flight, China's first generation of a true fighter 3.5 was born. 2011 F-10B to the new equipment gradually complete its flight performance of an order to "Jane's Defense" as the representative of British and American experts together, said it was an accident, because the F-10B and F-10A demonstrated by the performance is greatly different.
Two, J-10B
J-10B, compared with the J-10A, shape has been changed:
1, the inlet into DSI ("clam" type) inlet. J-10 to high-altitude high-speed performance, the use of a complex three-wave system Adjustable dual inlet, weight increased. DSI is the latest emerging technologies, he applied in the United States on the latest F-35. Compared with conventional inlet, DSI canceled boundary compartment, greatly reducing the weight. U.S. F-16 on the test results, DSI complex inlet lower than 182KG. Inlet total pressure recovery coefficient is an important indicator of the total pressure recovery coefficient decreased by 1%, thrust down by 1.1% to 1.6%. DSI will help improve the inlet total pressure recovery coefficient, the actual increase engine thrust. These two advantages make the push than the J-10B has been effectively improved. Another advantage of DSI is to remove the boundary layer separated Road, this large source of radar reflection, significantly reduces the RCS. In addition, DSI can reduce costs and improve reliability.
The assertion that DSI before high-speed performance is relatively poor. U.S. F-16 on the test that, DSI in the 0.6-1.2MH, the total pressure recovery coefficient of 0.98, but 2.0MH when only 0.74. Because some people worry that the use of significantly lower DSI J-10 high-altitude high-speed performance. The worry is unnecessary, technology is always in development. Our test results a certain type of inlet is in 1.8MH total pressure recovery coefficient is 0.91, when in 2.0MH 0.87, better than an average three-wave system inlet.
2, from the conical nose into a flat circle, to play into the inlet air before the pre-compression effect. Head slightly downward, to improve vision. The nose radome and the junction for the backward tilt of the slash, it is learned that that it is equipped with AESA (active phased array radar).
Radar development process are: mechanical radar → PESA (passive phased array radar) → AESA (active phased array radar). AESA is the same period in the development of four generations of machines and technology, in addition to the current 4th generation machines and equipment, but also for the 3.5-generation equipment and to upgrade or even three generations of machines. Compared with mechanical radar, AESA longer detection range, higher accuracy, reflecting the faster, more multi-target attack capability, more features, anti-interference ability, and higher reliability. Using some of the technology, stealth capable.


Compared with mechanical radar, AESA significant increase in detection range, and even the United States can claim a 100% increase. Stealth is now gradually entering the era of conventional radar stealth aircraft, cruise missiles, stealth RCS reflection of such a small target detection range is very short, such as J-10 is 0.03 in RCS (such as F-22) dropped to 30 from the discovery of km, electromagnetic interference environment in the shorter distances. AESA greater detection range, higher detection accuracy, enabled him to detect such small targets have a great advantage. Multi-target attack capability is three generations of machines began to claims, usually 8-10 months while tracking the target, and 2-4 against them. However, the actual capacity of the three-generation machine that is not practical. As the aircraft with high maneuverability, the conventional radar lock a target, it is difficult to lock another target, so a third generation machine is generally only attack a target, unless faced with a low maneuvering target. AESA fighter truly make this capability. 3 generations of machines began to be used in combat in silent flight, because of its search radar has been opened, like the night of the flashlight, the other early warning systems can easily be found. This issue is more important for stealth aircraft. Modern wars are accompanied by strong electromagnetic interference, making radar detection range significantly shortened. F-22 AESA radar and effective solution to both problems, through the use of radio frequency management technology, the other more difficult to find its radar electromagnetic radiation, is more difficult to be interference. AESA is the foundation to achieve this function. AESA also makes fighter planes with more features such as electronic warfare, with more to reliability.
U.S. equipment AESA earlier, its first in 2000, began as a modified F-15C AESA, radar transmitter unit only when a large, heavy and power powerful. New types of smaller units of various types of emission AESA radar equipment / modification began in 2004, F-22, F-16block60 (away), 2005 F-18E / F and 2010 F-15C. The U.S. is considering for his F-16C facelift AESA. Europe's 3.5 generation, gust 2013 facelift AESA, Typhoon program in 2015, JAS-39NG currently only demonstrator. Russia in 2014, serving SU-35BM (SU-27SM2) equipment is PESA; MiG-35 touches owns its own AESA, but "600mm diameter, 680 transceiver unit, 130 km detection range" configuration has been more tragic. Japan in 2000, serving F-2 is also equipped with AESA, but the radar performance is very tragic, of space exploration is only 40 km away, often missing the target. . It is said that the problem has been resolved, return to normal.
J-10B by the end of the small batch production, the radar uses 1000-1200 a transceiver unit, the target of 3 m ² effective detection distance of 160-180 km can be to have caught up with the trend of world development.
3, switched to diffraction HUD, head installation IRST (infrared search and track system). Diffraction HUD, which is commonly referred to as the wide-angle holographic HUD. HUD and the refraction than its larger field of view (with help of weapons targeting and night flying), the rate location perspective, the character reflectivity higher. Diffraction HUD 3.5 generation fighter technology in the application of the more common, first used in China's J-11B. Although an effective solution to the AESA radar, radiation and interference problems, but can not be completely avoided. IRST passive detection is not only difficult to be found in the detection of stealth aircraft also has the good effect. And are more functional. F-22 is a passive receiver system through the implementation of this function. As noted in that, J-10B of the IRST can track stealth aircraft at 60KM, 30KM to 50KM away from identification with the enemy on, show the enemy formation, the number of enemy statistics, to provide guidance to the missile's capabilities.
4, the installation of e-tail and wing cabin electronics pod. Aircraft electronic warfare capability is very important and critical ability. This machine for light heavy-duty machines generally have certain advantages. J-10B to increase the wing of a pair of hanging points, to add a pair of electronic pod (allegedly removable pod down), with the vertical tail electronic module, which greatly enhanced electronic warfare capabilities.
5, J-10B tail, fins were cut sharp handling, which will help improve high-speed performance, shows remains of its high-altitude high-speed pursuit. J-10B has improved wing structure (the same airfoil), add a pair of hanging points (for electronic warfare equipment), increasing the wing's oil reserves. Use composite wing skins, wing structure to reduce the weight while also strengthening the wing strength.
J-10 is the first domestic full-authority digital fax canard aircraft, the canard trim complex, for fear of oval cross-section of the front fuselage and canard at high angle of attack induced by coupling the vertical divergence, so with a circular cross-section of the forward fuselage. Also, because a J-8II 3-wave system inlet of technologies, so the use of abdominal 3-wave system inlet. After 2000 domestic DSI intake due to start in depth, then there are the FC-1 DSI intake to practice hands on DSI intake have a more in-depth study. Since the successful development of the J-10 and the troops, the domestic full authority digital fax canard aerodynamic characteristics of the study into a deeper level, has overcome the oval before the body coupled with the canard aerodynamic problems. On this basis, the lower part of the development of a body repair body level before half-oval coupled with the canard a more excellent aerodynamic layout of the forward fuselage to improve lift and angle of attack available.
J10B overall aerodynamic shape of the transonic and supersonic area ratio area ratio for the depth of the optimization (to improve the performance of supersonic key), redesigned forward fuselage, vertical fin, pelvic fins, the replacement of a new wing (wing base is not change, using more composite materials), a new generation of high-speed inlet design point of DSI 2.0MH, 2 times the speed of sound in the available total pressure better than 3-wave system inlet, the total time in 2.2MH (2.2 Mach)pressure recovery remained at a high level; low design point of 1.2MH. Optimized aerodynamic shape in subsonic, transonic, supersonic envelope within the drag effect is obvious, Asia / cross / supersonic lift-drag ratio improved acceleration performance is improved. Canard fly-in 4-generation system an excellent balance of high / low-speed performance. Actual flight test results show that, J-10B high-altitude high-speed better than the J-10A, motor better quality, in full flight envelope (0 ~ 2.3MH) better at every stage of acceleration, maximum speed and practical, practical ceiling and climb rate is better than J10A. Case of high altitude with a bomb (bomb simulation) and static maximum speed and ceiling were higher, and stable hovering performance is gratifying, digital flight control limits the maximum angle of attack up to about 30 °.


J-10B to enhance the aerodynamic performance of surprise, but the real highlight is its avionics and weapons upgrade. Someone said: "In fact, even if the 10B on AESA is not worth very excited - other avionics equipment, the pace of change and significance of the aircraft can be much greater than one is installed AESA. 10B avionics architecture and performance of a extent with reference to the F-22 Po columns standards, such as an independent flight control, fire control, etc. replaced by a new generation of integrated CIP (Common information processor). "J10B with a new generation of avionics systems, including improved flight control system, the latest supporting airborne phased array radar (active / passive) electronic warfare systems, new optical radar, the system updates no less than 70%.
J-10B significant increase in the use of composite materials, tried to reduce the RCS process, in addition to DSI intake, body modification, but also to minimize the appearance of the prominence body, the navigation light to a semi-buried, will cooling air inlet from the convex-type change possessed embedded. . . J-10B in the process of raising large, RCS reduced an order of magnitude, similar to the Typhoon, Rafale and F-18E / F. RCS of J-10B is less than 1m ², is a military aircraft in service in the RCS has the smallest models.
611 and 601 have been together four generations of our competition machine, start the voice of the larger 601, 611 was to back up, J-10 本 There are many variants. But after four generations of machines Whispering 611,611 main force began to shift to four generations on. After 2008, J-10's other programs are suspended, complete the transition to the DSI 10 to change single program, have discussed the possibility of the ship, and finally air-driven equipment, to strengthen the performance of air superiority, the ability to expand multi-purpose, completely abandon the ship direction. 10 change was identified as a 3.5 generation production machines, technology and 4th generation part of the verification, the fourth-generation avionics into (of course including the AESA).
J-10B-board equipment, radar, avionics although the 4th generation of the air with heavy-duty machine is not the same, but J10B on-board equipment, radar, avionics is the standard developed by four generations, four generations can be considered the standard first version of the practice. No practical experience of the first edition, 4th generation of the air heavy machine-board equipment, radar, avionics value there may be mutual interference or non-compliance, and this will lead to heavy-duty machine developed four generations of the air exceeded the budget, the development period extended , setting delay. So take J10B as four generations of the air machine airborne equipment, radar, avionics, weapons facilities, structures technology, new materials technology, production process exercises an object, the accumulation of experience. J10 of the modification will always exist, one is to increase (re-4 before serving) Air Force air power needs, and second, to solve ahead of fourth-generation heavy-duty air machine for possible obstacles, to share some of the risk of re-developed 4 . Re 4 is an independent research funding, J10 variant is independent of the funding. J10 of the modified approach to the fourth generation, to share research and test some of the risk of re-4, 4 on the re-development play a multiplier effect, improved version of its ultimate vest will spend four generations in the standard single machine supporting avionics .
In 2009 J-10B first performance analysis written articles, I'm still guessing a new generation of combat missiles PL-10 status. 2 years later, we see that our long-range air to air missiles in development, such as PL-12 of various modifications and PL-21 long-range missile punch. We can imagine with the new J-10B far, the short-range missiles, air combat capability will become more powerful. After 2006, China's precision ground attack munitions also has been considerable development, variety has been greatly enriched. J-10B itself the ability to expand the multi-purpose, with the new ammunition, and ground attack capability has been greatly improved.
J-10B is currently the biggest problem is the engine. J-10 engine thrust is not involved in large, performance is limited, Taihang engine has been unstable. In 2009 J-10B first performance analysis written article, I worry too much line on the J-10B engine will delay progress. Now 2 years later, things did not find the nature of the change, although a large number of Taihang J-11B is equipped with service, but the J-10 on the test is still ongoing. J-10B will begin to install AL-31FN service, probably at the end of small batch production. It is said that two groups has received orders.
Heard the aircraft prepared to spend a lot of money to develop the engine level, and how will boast how fast development. . We do not care about these boast, but also be able to see, although now a little depressed, but the outlook is still good.
We envy SU-35, SU-37, MiG-1.44, S-37, envy gust, typhoon, Gripen, envy MiG -35, SU-35BM, F-22 and more envious of F-35. Now we finally have a catch up with the advanced world level fighter, although there is a big gap from F-22/F-35, but has other 3.5 generation fighter aircraft in the same grade. With the J-10B, we are no longer the envy of double wind. We even began to think, JAS-39C / D as J-10A, and began to explore the FC-1 and JAS-39 comparison. .
The U.S. aircraft carrier on the 3.5-generation F-18E / F, stationed in Japan, the F-15C has also been upgraded to the 3.5 generation. South Korea, Japan, India is planning to buy 3.5 generation fighter, Singapore has been equipped with a small 3.5-generation F-15SG. Four generations of the F-22 in service in 2004, a total of more than 180 aircraft, will be the end of the escalation, has often military in Okinawa, Japan. F-35 is a lot of flight, the next few years will be served. After 2017, F-35 will gradually into neighboring countries such as Japan, Korea, and Australia. China's J-20 first flight was in January. J-20 appearance marked by China's aviation industry began to catch up with Europe, the Air Force into a world-class threshold. But involvement in the engine, J-20 is currently only at the first stage. Facelift later generation of WS-15, the body re-modification, continue to test until the equipment. WS-15 plans to deliver about 2016, so that J-20 sound version of the service time is about 2018-2020 years. So in the eight years, who defend the country's airspace?
Production of J-11B is part of 3 generations, 2007 for the first flight of the J-11BS J-11B two-seater machine, has started to equip; first flight in 2009, is a test of the J-15 carrier aircraft, performance similar to J -11B; may first flight in the second half of the J-16 is similar to the SU-30MKK fighter-bomber (avionics, weapons, increased dramatically). Therefore, this important task was referred to the J-10B of the body. J-10B can be effective against the surrounding 3.5-generation fighter aircraft; in the system against defensive, you can fight F-35.
Three, J-10B in his country.

Pakistan has been rumored ready to buy my 36 J-10, arrival time is about 2014. According to arrival time, the real model should be the J-10B. J-10A domestic prices close to $ 30 million, J-11B about 54 million, about 24 million A Flying Leopard. FC-1 take-away prices 1500-2000 Wan, J-10A current export price of about 40 million, J-10B about 55 million. The current international market price of the 3.5 generation are: Typhoon 120 million, gusts 110 million, F-15SG 1 亿, F-18E / F 9000 万, F-16E / F 8000 万, JAS-39NG 8000 million, the MiG- -355 000 million; three generations of SU-30MKK 6000 million. Compared with the same aircraft grade, J-10B can be described as inexpensive.
Pakistan's existing 34 F-16Block15OCU, now other countries to avionics upgrade F-16Block50 state, the upgrade is completed in 2014. Pakistan's newly purchased 18 F-16Block50/52, by the end of all of arrival. Pakistan may also be expected to buy 18 F-16Block50/52. This to 2014, Pakistan will have 70 F-16Block50/52 state fighters. Since 2007, receiving the first eight JF-17, 2009 began to receive the second batch of 40 JF-17, currently General of Pakistan has received about 30 aircraft. JF-17 after delivery is estimated to be stable at 20 / year rate. In 2014, Pakistan will be about 100 JF-17. After that batch, is expected to make large improvements, such as stealth modification, facelift AESA, IRST and other installation. In this way, to 2014, Pakistan will have 170 three generations of modern fighter aircraft.
India in 1997-1999 purchased 18 SU-30K; 2002-2004 was purchased 32 SU-30MKI. India's HAL 2004, the company began assembling the production SU-30MKI, a total of 2014 to produce 90, the current total production of nearly 70. India in 2007 ordered 40 SU-30MKI ,2011-2012 for delivery; 2009 ordered 50 SU-30MKI, 2013-2014 is expected to deliver. 2010 ordered 42 SU-30MKI, in 2014 the company began assembling the production by the HAL, the production is completed in 2018. India currently has a total of 16 MiG-29K, plan to buy 29. India began the 63 old MiG-29 upgrade MiG-29UPG (15 million cost of upgrading / frame), the 51 old Mirage-2000H upgraded Mirage -2000-5 (40 million cost of upgrading / frame). India made light aircraft in service in January 2011, yield about 10 / year. So that by 2014, India will have 230 SU-30MKI, 60 MiG-29UPG, 50 Mirage -2000-5,40 MiG-29K, 40 架 LCA, a total of 420 three generations of modern fighter aircraft.
India is not satisfied with these, it is in full swing preparing to buy 126 3.5 generation fighter aircraft. Is currently finalizing the purchase of double the wind or F-18E / F. . After 2014, India is ready to SU-30MKI fleet for another upgrade.
Several times in the face of their enemies, especially the more modern face of the future 126-plus 3.5-generation fighter aircraft, Pakistan Air Force, both F-16 Block50/52, or JF-17, all appeared to be inadequate. Pakistan plans to buy more second-hand one F-16A / B and make improvements, to supplement the quantity; the other hand, think Pakistan, China, think of the Chinese J-10B. In fact, there are rumors that Pakistan has been involved in the development of J-10B. .
J-10B can be effective against the 3.5 generation fighter for India's future, and the rest of India's third generation machine of repression on the formation of performance. If the FC-1 to Pakistan, the F-16 Block50/52 is located after the second machine, then to Pakistan after the J-10B is located in F-16 Block50/52 before the high-end machine.
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Some tid bids from EagleHannan

Our dealing with China is more of a Strategic Partner than just a neighbor and in that sense of you think, you will know that many things too good to be true are on the table. Before we say it takes times for such things to develop, lets look at the situation in strategic terms. The region is becoming hot bed of activity for super powers, everyone is active as this area is of vital importance as a future energy corridor. China is facing loss of grip in South China seas and its other shipping routes. Moreover these routes Can not sustain China's current growth and China can not depend on them for its future with US and other stooges hell bent to disrupt Chinese military and economic ambitions. I am saying it with 100% confidence. How do I know, lets just say I am a witness of such views expressed from people in Chinese labor party. I can not share the material but I was amazed to attend a presentation where the Chinese expressed the importance of Gawadar in China's future strategy and importance of Pakistan as its strategic partner. It is the reason why China is more than forth coming and inshallah will have to stay this way in the future too that it wants to make sure, Pakistan's security needs are more than met. It is the reason why the are making sure, we do not see any other but Chinese way. Question is, do they want us to be dependant? Answer is both yes and no. The importance of Gawadar and Arabian Sea in Chinese economy and defense strategy is immense. We can discuss it at other time.

Coming to topic at hand, things are progressing faster than we anticipated but like all military acquisitions, there are delays and hiccups. While I agree with you on that normally such radical developments take time. But 8 years to develop and put in operation a fighter which many thought could be no more than an F7 replacement has already shocked the world. Then it was always planned to manufacture in batches not because of changes that might need to be made on the platform itself. China and Pakistan took a lot of time, freezing this air frame in the present condition. The whole focus is on the avionics and weapons development at the moment. At least for JFT.

The current political situation has dictated that while we can incorporate some sub systems in JFT, the major components like radars and EW suits are not available from the west and seems like they wont be. If you remember the news, Pakistan always stated that it is looking for a western radar and avionics suit for JFT and many names appeared on the horizon as candidates. Because of the urgency (replacement of Fantans and F7s) Pakistan agreed to induct KLJ7 radar over all western radars because it fulfilled the BASIC requirement @ decent cost. I never commented but I always thought that KLJ7 was not something PAF would want to settle for a long time. Moreover, while as you said, radars and avionic suits development takes a lot of time, so does replacement of a full system from an aircraft and replace it with something else totally. Imagine the cost of replacing sensors suits + radar of 50 JFTs already in service specially when there is only one facility to do it all. CAC obviously wont be helping us with western radars and avionic suits.

Original plan was that PAC will have a joint venture for avionics and radar for the block2 aircraft with some western company. The block 2 radar and avionics suit would then be acquired with ToT and Pakistan will make all the western avionics with license of production. This will be the last bock for at least 200 production untis + export units. Then 2 things happened. 1) Because of geo political reasons, no supplier came forward with ToT and license production except those which PAF had already rejected as not being better than KLJ7. 2) China came forward with a new radar that incorporates and adds to existing sensor suit enhancing capability many folds with ToT (sharing than transfer). The new radar proved to be better in economic terms and is a viable solution for foreseeable future. Add to this, the close cooperation between PAC and CAC. Resulting is even faster production rate for aircrafts. Now if you add this to the geo policitcal situation of the region and Pakistan's immediate and dire need to beef up its defenses with modern air arm, the situation becomes clear.

I suspect and am hopeful about silence on JFT front from PAF means something good is going on. I am also now speculative of radar type but like I confirmed before from reliable sources, the swash plat based AESA radar for JFT was ready before PMs visit to China. I tried to find out many times if there is any prototype of JFT is flying with the new avionic suits but couldnt confirm it. Unlike FC20, about which I could squeeze out information like 2 prototypes are flying and both Chinese and Pakistani teams are testing both the air frame and avionics.
Soon enough new pictures of FC20 also surfaced to confirm reports. As you know defense acquisitions often have certain conditions associated. While I reported that 4 FC20 inshallah are to join PAF by year's end (the confirmation was from a responsible person) I was not told nor I asked the conditions associated. You and me can only report from our contacts (for sheer patriotism and love of PAF to know about it) and can make sure that we do get info from reliable people. But we know mostly one side of the story and are totally unaware of the other conditions associated in defense deals. Like for instance its economic terms, and fall back plans.

What PAF contacts in our family and circle of friends can tell us is "whats going on now" but of course they can never reveal to us the fall back plans if the present fails either on technical bases or if policy is like; if A is at X condition now, previously was at Y condition and B is at XX condition. We will not invest in A any more, leave it as it is and try to update A platform's Y condition while we'll focus more on B platform with XX condition. I hope you catch my drift.

We report here on the bases of what we find out. Definitely at one point A could have been and was to be at X condition and we reported it here while PAF exercised the fall back policy and kept it at Y. This is how things work and this is what forums and think tanks do. Speculate on the bases of solid information of present and its translation into the future. No think tank has power over players.

I am very hopeful that all is a go ahead with JFTs new radar + avionics and no news indeed is good news Inshallah.
 
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Pardon my ignorance but what is a swash based AESA radar? Never heard of the term?
 
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Basicly an AESA radar that can Rotate 360 degree to increase its feield of view


Not 360, Because a a radar can not move in nose completely 360. The Swash Plate Aesa Radar Saab Gripen is getting offers 100 Degree of bore sight. So A Swash Radar offers increase field of view which increases RCS too. But not a 360 field of view
 
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Basicly an AESA radar that can Rotate 360 degree to increase its feield of view

By mounting an AESA radar on a swashplate, the swashplate angle is added to the electronic scan angle. The typical swashplate angle chosen for this application is 40 degrees so the radar can scan a total angle of 200 degrees out of 360

Swashplate_anim_metal.gif
 
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