Can't fight India over Kashmir: Gilani

[Windjammer]

You dream too much

In a faint hope that it may turn out to be a reality.

Better than imprisoning and executing the political leadership and then becoming the corrupt king for a decade.. Innit?

Perhaps the need of the hour .....in any case more realistic than conducting fake encounters to gain incentives and prove the macho man.

 

[MilSpec]

If you couldn't/never had the capability to attack , then dont say that you never wanted to ...
1965 ... One third of Indian airforce lost , Pakistan successful in defending Lahore and Sialkot ... Despite being 5 times smaller in size ...

The 1965 war with India proved that Pakistan could neither break the formidable Indian defenses in a blitzkrieg fashion nor could she sustain an all-out conflict for long, Pakistan was the aggressor force in 1965, and ended up being responsible for defending its cities fro Indian retaliation. It was a all round loss of Pakistan.

1971 ... A part of our country which was almost 2000 km away from us ... A local rebellion helped by the Indians ... 2 million IA troops and 50k Mukti Bahini + the hostile population manage to take surrender of 43k PA regulars ... Proud again are you ?

Ahem .... 43K PA regulars.. lets make that
Army 54,154
Navy 1,381
Air Force 833
Paramilitary including police 22,000
Civilian personnel 12,000
Total: 90,368
Hamoodur Rahman Commission (sounds familiar?)
The Report's findings accuse the Pakistani Army of carrying out senseless and wanton arson, killings in the countryside, killing of intellectuals and professionals and burying them in mass graves, killing of Bengali Officers and soldiers on the pretence of quelling their rebellion, killing East Pakistani civilian officers, businessmen and industrialists, raping a large number of East Pakistani women as a deliberate act of revenge, retaliation and torture, and deliberate killing of members of the Hindu minority. The report accused the generals of what it called a premature surrender and said the military's continued involvement in running the government after 1958 was one reason for the corruption and ineffectiveness of senior officers. 'Even responsible service officers,' the report said, 'have asserted before us that because of corruption resulting from such involvement, the lust for wine and women and greed for lands and houses, a large number of senior army officers, particularly those occupying the highest positions, had lost not only their will to fight but also their professional competence.

1984 ... Whom did we lost Siachin to ? Did we ever control it ? It was a no man's land even though we had claims to that ... IA reached there first and cant come down now ... A total logistical nightmare for your country which spends almost 2 million / day to maintain troops on harsh Glacier Wasn't your PM too anxious to make it a mountain of peace ? ... IA cant back from it despite wanting to because it will lost its face in the public ...

read about siachen ,, you will know how PA failed

1999 ... Some 25k NLI and Freedom fighters engage 30 Regiments size IA ... Manage to inflict more causalities and end up taking control of the most strategic peak in the area + some other areas SO ?

that was just funny... I guess the rest of the world ushered you guys with praises and honors for the dastardly event?

I think proud Indians should get off their high horses now

buddy, you just fell off yourr donkey.....

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

As we develop more and more, greater number of Pakistanis will eventually accept that their dream of laying their hands on Indian Kashmir will ever remain, uh well, just a dream.

It's time to accept the harsh reality and move on and works for a better future instead.

 

[Secur]

As we develop more and more, greater number of Pakistanis will eventually accept that their dream of laying their hands on Indian Kashmir will ever remain, uh well, just a dream.

It's time to accept the harsh reality and move on and works for a better future instead.

I haven't heard of Kashmiri Muslims ceasing resistance and accepting Indian rule , have you ?

BTW how much troops do you have deployed in the valley ?

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

I haven't heard of Kashmiri Muslims ceasing resistance and accepting Indian rule , have you ?

It's gone down.

It's going further down with each passing day.

..and as people see that they have better future in BPO's and MNC's, they will further realise that blowing themselves up for some fanatics is not worth it. It's human nature and no amount of your 'hoo haa' can change it.

It's human nature to see and settle for better opportunities and our growing economy will provide them far better opportunities than your sinking ship ever can.

It might take time, but this is what will happen eventually.

Besides, time is something we have aplenty.

 

[Splurgenxs]

:

I haven't heard of Kashmiri Muslims ceasing resistance and accepting Indian rule , have you ?

BTW how much troops do you have deployed in the valley ?

Dont u love it when ur Leaders finally make good Right Honest statements.... finally im hopeful for Pakistan will have a good future after all

 

[Secur]

It's gone down.

It's going further down with each passing day.

..and as people see that they have better future in BPO's and MNC's, they will further realise that blowing themselves up for some fanatics is not worth it. It's human nature and no amount of your 'hoo haa' can change it.

It's human nature to see and settle for better opportunities and our growing economy will provide them far better opportunities than your sinking ship ever can.

Sure we will talk when it finally ceases to exist

I am sure people have realized/shown for the past 60 years that development/opportunities are no
substitute for freedom ... The reason for the mass demonstrations/protests in the valley ... While nothing that sort happening in our Kashmir despite us being as you say " the sinking ship "

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

:

Dont u love it when ur Leaders finally make good Right Honest statements.... finally im hopeful for Pakistan will have a good future after all

I do , I just dont like people twisting things to fit their needs ... That is the reason i have posted the real statement ...
Even I am So TY for that

 

[MilSpec]

Suddenly the statement by a Pakistani leader floats the Indian's boat.

Isn't this something like MMS saying, "India wants to settle all issues including Kashmir with Pakistan amicably". !!

On the contrary, Indian General postures about opening two front war, hence Gillani's comment is the usual diplomatic niceties.

not posturing, Just gearing up for the worst case scenario, have enough mighty deterrence, so that we see extended peacetime. Atleast our punjab regiment is not fighting in pakistani administered part of kashmir, under the pretext of local uprising?
Our military is a highly responsible outfit and wont do anything which makes our country stupid in front of world (like kargil).

 

[Secur]

Atleast our punjab regiment is not fighting in pakistani administered part of kashmir, under the pretext of local uprising?

So those NLI's soldiers are from Punjab ? What about the AJK Regiment ? ... I can tell you one thing , our army isn't deployed in every nook and corner of Pakistani held Kashmir ... People do want to live with us and hence no protests/demonstrations ... Ever heard of any human rights violation or some mass graves in AJK or NA ? Can i say the same about you ?

 

[buddyboyyash]

If you couldn't/never had the capability to attack , then dont say that you never wanted to ...

1947 Pakistan managed to take control of Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir and gains the most strategically important strip connecting it to China ...

1965 ... One third of Indian airforce lost , Pakistan successful in defending Lahore and Sialkot ... Despite being 5 times smaller in size ...

1971 ... A part of our country which was almost 2000 km away from us ... A local rebellion helped by the Indians ... 2 million IA troops and 50k Mukti Bahini + the hostile population manage to take surrender of 43k PA regulars ... Proud again are you ?

1984 ... Whom did we lost Siachin to ? Did we ever control it ? It was a no man's land even though we had claims to that ... IA reached there first and cant come down now ... A total logistical nightmare for your country which spends almost 2 million / day to maintain troops on harsh Glacier Wasn't your PM too anxious to make it a mountain of peace ? ... IA cant back from it despite wanting to because it will lost its face in the public ...

1999 ... Some 25k NLI and Freedom fighters engage 2 million IA troops ... Manage to inflict more causalities and end up taking control of the most strategic peak in the area + some other areas SO ?

As for the Chinese argument , I was merely pointing out that you cant even defend the part of Kashmir which you have ... No need to get all worked up

I think proud Indians should get off their high horses now

rofl...brainwashed...

1947: no indian armed forces present in kashmir when pakistan attacked it (for absolutely NO reason other than greed for territory)....it was much later that indian armed forces intervened and since and still a larger part was retained by india

1965: operation gibraltar and grand slam failed...approx 2000 sq miles of pak land lost...operation dwarka failed....80% ammunition depleted...yes ur air force had more hits...i admit...lahore was not SUCCESSFULLY defended....the cease fire was enforced before army could attack in full force...lahore was defended only against minor skirmishes

1971: that 2000 km away of "OUR" land got LIBERATED.90k SURRENDER..yes we are proud...no1 surrenders for no reason..operation to sink ins vikrant failed..pns ghazi sunk..east pak navy destroyed...west pak operation trident and python...battle of longewala...complete air superiority..YES WE ARE PROUD..going by your logic...america will not be able to defend hawaii ever ryt??

1984: read urself...if it was no mans land who the hell gave pak govt permission to issue licenses for mountaineering expeditions??...pak tried hard and FAILED...our PM is anxious to even make the indo pak border peaceful...

1999: betrayal and backstabbing at its best...indian army still gained back all the land (except for one useless peak...useless coz it is surrounded by indian peaks)...in an almost impossible mission when ur pm was running to usa for help...after failing there calling up indian pm and begging to end the war...even china dint come forward and help u guys

as for aksai chin...yes india lost it...1962 no army on indo china border...no logistics or proper roads...country struggling with poverty with almost no air force in that region was attacked....

learn to admit failures gracefully and learn from them...

ps: i do not mean to offend any1 except this guy whom ive quoted

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Sure we will talk when it finally ceases to exist

Done deal bud!

Like I said, time is something we're not short of, not at all.

My son will be telling the same thing to your son as well.

 

[foxbat]

If you couldn't/never had the capability to attack , then dont say that you never wanted to ...

Better to have not attacked at all than to have attacked and lost .. (like Pakistan )

1947 Pakistan managed to take control of Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir and gains the most strategically important strip connecting it to China ...

From Maharaja of Kashmir and not from India. India's entry stopped you cold and pushed you back from Srinagar airport..

Do you see India Tom Toming victories in Hyd, Junagarh, Goa etc?? But then there are no other Military victories for Pakistan in all of its history, so I can understand that a victory over a princely state will have to do for you

1965 ... One third of Indian airforce lost , Pakistan successful in defending Lahore and Sialkot ... Despite being 5 times smaller in size ...

Pakistan attacked and had to end up having defending Lahore and Sialkot.. Proud.. Are you ??

1971 ... A part of our country which was almost 2000 km away from us ... A local rebellion helped by the Indians ... 2 million IA troops and 50k Mukti Bahini + the hostile population manage to take surrender of 43k PA regulars ... Proud again are you ?

Yes.. Liberated Bangladesh, cut you in 2 and permanently damaged the psych of generations of Pakistan.. I say very proud.. And it was 93 K PA regulars..The largest ever after world war II

1984 ... Whom did we lost Siachin to ? Did we ever control it ? It was a no man's land even though we had claims to that ... IA reached there first and cant come down now ... A total logistical nightmare for your country which spends almost 2 million / day to maintain troops on harsh Glacier Wasn't your PM too anxious to make it a mountain of peace ?... IA cant back from it despite wanting to because it will lost its face in the public ...

humko maaloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin
dil ko khusH rakHne ko 'GHalib' ye khayaal achcha hai

1999 ... Some 25k NLI and Freedom fighters engage 2 million IA troops ... Manage to inflict more causalities and end up taking control of the most strategic peak in the area + some other areas SO ?

As per your Prime minister at the time, Pakistan Army lost in excess of 4000 men.. Pakistan lost all credibility on Kashmir after that.. Your PM was summoned to USA and given a tongue lashing by your then masters.. Actually this was Mushy's attempt to avenge Siachen (he was the senior Army Brigadier who got his butt handed to him by Indian Army).. So repeat..

humko maaloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin
dil ko khusH rakHne ko 'GHalib' ye khayaal achcha hai

As for the Chinese argument , I was merely pointing out that you cant even defend the part of Kashmir which you have ... No need to get all worked up

Not getting worked up.. Am used to some Pakistanis compensating Pakistan's lack of successes by feeling proud of successes of their new fairy godfathers

I think proud Indians should get off their high horses now

Nah! You think wrong

 

[foxbat]

Perhaps the need of the hour

Standard excuse of a criminal..

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

I haven't heard of Kashmiri Muslims ceasing resistance and accepting Indian rule , have you ?

BTW how much troops do you have deployed in the valley ?

Omar Abdullah is a Kashmiri Muslim.. No??

 

[World_Peace]

"An army marches on its stomach". -Napoleon Bonaparte
I think that says it all.

 

[foxbat]

Sure we will talk when it finally ceases to exist

I am sure people have realized/shown for the past 60 years that development/opportunities are no
substitute for freedom ... The reason for the mass demonstrations/protests in the valley ... While nothing that sort happening in our Kashmir despite us being as you say " the sinking ship "

Probably Kashmir is the only place in Pakistan where it doesnt happen..

btw, here is what a Pakistani Kashmiri says about Pakistan and Kashmir

Dr Shabir Choudhry's blog: Kashmir, Pakistan and the Empowerment of the People, by Khurshid Khan

exerpts..

All AK governments are either an extension or installed and implanted by the politics and establishment in Islamabad. We have reached a level of bankruptcy in Pakistan due to our Kashmir policy and misplaced priorities.

Invasion of Kashmir after partition divided the state and put Pakistan on a course to disintegration on the same day. Pakistan was a very poor new born country and it needed to put all its resources in health education and infrastructure building. Instead we were hijacked by vested interests of minority feudal elite rulers and we sank our resources in building a huge military complex.

We lost half of our country but did not learn anything.....instead of fixing our priorities, abandoning a policy of hypocrisy and deceit, we again embarked on a biggest lie of being born again MUSLIMS and created a business out of fake Jihad, where our military failed we tried to exploit the youth of the nation to win a proxy war for us from India.

Kashmir issue was again exploited to keep the budget and brain washing the youth, to be cannon fodder.

We invaded Kashmir with the help of tribes (which I admire for many other reasons) and gave an excuse to the Maharaja to invite Indian forces in Kashmir. The rest is history. The second mistake in my view was made after we had UNO resolutions when we did not give any real autonomy to the *** and in fact created a ghetto for the people with a section officer in charge with real powers in Islamabad.

Chanting the mantra of “Kashmir bunay ga Pakistan” yet asking the whole world to help secure the rights of self determination of Kashmiri people is the biggest contradiction in itself and no moral grounds to stand on