Can Pakistan produce/acquire these kinds of subs?

[Safriz]

Don't know about the invincible part , But Shaurya is the land version of K15 .

Shaurya is said to be a QBM which will make K15 also a QBM. Maybe a first of it's kind SLQBM .

Hello,
Whats QBM?

 

[PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER]

Like u always say about LCA,first make,then talk...the same goes for your nuclear submarine too

 

[Hyperion]

At least he speak honestly and wise thinking. He doesn't say not to build submarines but to expands our fleets first before it. Our Agostas must stay in his primarily role of mouse-cat games but you prefer to add nuclear megaton yields will make little difficult on Agostas due to more weights and less effectives in mouse-cat games. I would stick with it, our history successed with previous wars experiments with India's huge fleets. By inducting with Qing Class submarines along with nuclear Babur Missiles is more sense combined support with Agostas submarines , more deadly.

Don't mess with heavy noise submarines or AIP submarines.

Kid, are you kidding me -- or is this the depth of your strategic thought?

 

[kurup]

Hello,
Whats QBM?

Quasi Ballistic Missile .

http://www.google.co.in/url?url=htt...SrNUJyNDMzOrQeq1oGwCg&ved=0CDkQygQwAA&cad=rja

 

[Penguin]

Agosta-Khalid can carry Nuclear cruise missiles right now,if the missiles are ready,so yes Pakistan has a nuclear weapon 'ready' submarine as we speak.
The probles is the submarine is too small to carry enough numbers of Babur missiles,may be 4-8 at maximum.

The chinese option is Qing class submarines,which at 6000 tons are large enough to carry 20+ Babur missiles in addition to ballistic missiles.
The sub can be efficiently operated with diesel propulsion,and can be fitted with nuclear reactor.
But for the moment Pakistsn hasnt asked china for the submarine in any official status.

For now probably all Agosta-Khalid class subs may carry 4-8 Babur missiles each,acting as nuclear second strike deterrant collectively.

Nonsense!

Qing is conventionally powered, has at best 3 VL tubes for launching CJ-10K cruise missiles. The double hull boats of the "Qing"-Class are to have a displacement of some 3.600t submerged, and are to have an air independent propulsion system based on the Sterling motor.

Pakistan Navy To Get 6 QING Class Submarines And 2 Typ 054A FFGs From China | ASIAN DEFENSE

They are marginally larger than Yuan and Kilo, which carry an estimated total of 18 torpedoes (6 in tubes and 12 reloads. For Qing to carry 20+ Baburs, it would have to go without any other submarine weapons such as torpedoes and would, essentially, not be able to defend herself against other subs and surface vessels.

on the other hand same cannot be said about india.
Their only cruise missile Brahmos is 23 inches wide,and their sindhgosh class subs have the standard 21 inch torpedo tubes which cannot carry Brahmos.
So at this time,in this field Pakistan is ahead of India.
We have the subs,we have the missiles,just need an underwater launching system.
Indua will need totally new missiles and new subs.

Brahmos would not be launched by torpedo tube but rather by VLS. Just like you can upgrade an SSK with AIP by cutting it in half and adding in a new hull section complete with that propulsion unit, so can you upgrade an SSK with a hull section containing VLS tubes. Your limiting factor would be hull diameter relative to missile/vlu length.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/BrahMos_missie_on_Lada_class_non-nuclear_submarine_maqette.jpg

 

[Penguin]

Harpoon can be launched from Submarine?if yes?

than if i am nt wrong there were rumours that pak had modified harpoon for LACM role

may be we dnt knw and we already had nuclear tipped harpoon in service

Most modern SSMs these days have some limited land attack capability in the littoral zone. That is not the same a using Harpoon for Land Attack. You'ld need something like the Harpoon derived SLAM.

The SM39 Exocet was test-fired from a Khalid-class submarine in 2001

So what? What is your point?

 

[KRAIT]

Hello,
Whats QBM?

Quasi Ballistic Missile.

A quasi ballistic missile (also called a semi ballistic missile) is a category of missile that has a low trajectory and/or is largely ballistic but can perform maneuvers in flight or make unexpected changes in direction and range

Ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Penguin]

Can't Pakistan purchase some technology from Iranian Navy! It will be good cause Iranians already got the know how and they can strike the Aim point with 100% accuracy. It will be good purchase. If India can look for Israel to build drones and Air force, Pakistan should, I will say 'must' go to Iranian Technology.

Which is essentially tweaked Chinese technology. Pakistan would be more efficient dealing with the Chinese directly.

*Because one is SLCM and the other is SLBM
*Babur payload is 450kg if i am nt wrong

COrrect, it is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Sedqal]

We can use this sub for cross border infiltration.

 

[Safriz]

Posetd by sir @pshamim on another website...

Pakistan to use Chinese submarine deal







According to Russian media reports, the "clear" class submarines China to improve the development of models on the basis of the 041 type "meta" class diesel-electric submarines, the "meta" level from the development in Russia 636 diesel-powered submarines based on the .
It is said that 043 "clear" class diesel-powered submarines, the performance is very advanced, it is about 92 meters, a surface displacement of 3600 tons, submerged displacement of nearly 5200 tons. The class submarines equipped with AIP developed by Sweden Stirling engine on the basis of air-independent propulsion (not) power plant, a substantial increase of the submarine navigating underwater continuous.
According to Pakistani sources said the Pakistani Army has ordered a total 6 "clear" class submarines, of which four will be built in China, and the remaining two will be under the technical assistance in China, using Chinese parts in Karachi, Pakistan, shipyard construction .
"Times of India," the article disclosed as early as April 2011, when India is hesitant to develop new submarine project, Pakistan has been "quietly" and China signed an agreement from China to buy 6 equipped with air-independent Improved propulsion (AIP) system "class submarines. The article said that it will make undersea warfare in Pakistan was further enhanced.
Pakistan's local newspaper "Express", the defense minister of Pakistan that Pakistan is facing the growing threat of the rise of the Pakistan Navy submarines and ships, is facing a "critical military imbalance. There is also a Navy official said that over time, this strength, the gap will expand exponentially. Pakistan Navy has repeatedly asked the Cabinet approved a program to buy China's conventional submarines. Pakistani military officials said, which will Pakistan Joint development of conventional submarines pave the way ". In March 2011, the Pakistan Navy and the relevant departments on this sign a draft, as the two sides in the joint development of conventional submarines, the "first step".
The most advanced submarine of Pakistan Navy equipment purchased from France for three Agosta-90B type. Pakistan and France signed an agreement to build three of the submarines for the Pakistani Army and related technologies (the total value of $ 950 million) in 1994. The first ship Kahalid "by the French DCN construction and delivery in December 1999. The second ship, "Sada" was delivered in December 2003, and equipment from time to rely on the third ship of the air-propelled autonomous submarine power plant (MESMA) "Hamza" Pakistani Army equipment in 2008.Through 6 upgrade version purchased from China with AIP system, new submarines, underwater warfare capability of Pakistan will be further enhanced.
In fact, the issue of the Pakistan Navy has long had the procurement of submarines and a number of countries negotiated the object of its Buying French-made "fish" level and the German-made Type 214 submarines.
Pakistani Army headquarters had announced in 2009, with Germany close to reaching a procurement contract of at least three Type 214 submarines. However, due to the attitude of the funding problems and the domestic political forces in Germany, leading to the final contract has not been signed.
Reported that, in contrast, India's submarine program has not been much progress, code-named "75 Project" submarine development plan up to now not yet finalized, and India want to get one equipped with AIP system The submarine then there is still a long way to go.

 

[Safriz]

Nonsense!

Qing is conventionally powered, has at best 3 VL tubes for launching CJ-10K cruise missiles. The double hull boats of the "Qing"-Class are to have a displacement of some 3.600t submerged, and are to have an air independent propulsion system based on the Sterling motor.

Pakistan Navy To Get 6 QING Class Submarines And 2 Typ 054A FFGs From China | ASIAN DEFENSE

They are marginally larger than Yuan and Kilo, which carry an estimated total of 18 torpedoes (6 in tubes and 12 reloads. For Qing to carry 20+ Baburs, it would have to go without any other submarine weapons such as torpedoes and would, essentially, not be able to defend herself against other subs and surface vessels.

Hello,

Qing are said to be based on later models of Golf class,and Golf II did carry three Ballistic missile silos,holding 16 tonner in each.
The matter of Qing's SLBM capabiity was discussed here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...bm-testing-vehicle-confirmed.html#post2537285

and an interesting Picture was posted by a chinese member Showing a large belly under the Qing class similar to the Golf Class's Belly...

Now Pakistan does not have SLBM and the three Missile Silos can be retro fitted with Babur Vertical launch tubes and that will make enough room for carrying 20 Babus Missiles without sacrificing other weapons carrying capacity.
Qing has a very large sail and a belly,what for?

 

[Safriz]

Comparewith Golf II carrying 3 SLBM

 

[Safriz]

Ok truth be told now...
Only one Qing class was produced with extra large sail and a belly to test SLBM..This model is not intended for mass production as China will have bigger Subs for SLBM...
But the model was and is being tested and may be available for export in addition to certain other designs with Vertical launch system available for Cruise missile launch,the sail will have vertical launch so forward weapons wont be effected and sub;s Torpedo and anti ship missile carrying capacity wont be effected...
Nobody knows what exact configuration Pakistan has asked for if at all.

 

[Penguin]

Comparewith Golf II carrying 3 SLBM

Displacement: 2,794 tons surfaced/3,553 tons submerged (629)
2,300-2,820 tons surfaced/2,700-3,553 tons submerged (629A)
Length: 98.4 m (629) / 98.9 m (629A)

Ok truth be told now...
Only one Qing class was produced with extra large sail and a belly to test SLBM..This model is not intended for mass production as China will have bigger Subs for SLBM...
But the model was and is being tested and may be available for export in addition to certain other designs with Vertical launch system available for Cruise missile launch,the sail will have vertical launch so forward weapons wont be effected and sub;s Torpedo and anti ship missile carrying capacity wont be effected...
Nobody knows what exact configuration Pakistan has asked for if at all.

Are you suggesting Qing´s 3 silo´s would carry multipacked Baburs, much like the block 3 Virginia class SSNs? That would give 3x6°18 Baburs and an intact boat regular weapon load.
Note though that the 043 has only two torpedo tubes, limiting its combat capability.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/virginia-block-iii-the-revised-bow-04159/

 

[Pakistanisage]

here is the History of Russian Navy:





History of the Russian Navy (1/6) - YouTube



History of the Russian Navy (2/6) - YouTube



History of the Russian Navy (3/6) - YouTube




History of the Russian Navy (4/6) - YouTube





History of the Russian Navy (5/6) - YouTube