Can Pakistan produce/acquire these kinds of subs?

[Safriz]

You dont have the infrastructure for it. Yes i read your last post. Now think again.

Pakistan can make the hull..i am sure about that.
Pakistan may be able to make the reactor,i am not sure,but can fit the reactor in house if sourced from abroad...

 

[Azazel]

Pakistan can make the hull..i am sure about that.
Pakistan may be able to make the reactor,i am not sure,but can fit the reactor in house if sourced from abroad...

Does Pakistan have any experience in Submarine construction???

 

[arp2041]

Pakistan can make the hull..i am sure about that.
Pakistan may be able to make the reactor,i am not sure,but can fit the reactor in house if sourced from abroad...

Mate think over it with a neutral perspective, which nation on earth will give a miniaturized PWR to Pakistan for a Nuke sub. I mean leasing a nuke sub is one case & giving nuke reactors off the shelf a totally different one. Besides fitting it inside a submarine hull is again a tech. hurdle, this was the very reason why INS arihant got delayed.

 

[Safriz]

Mate think over it with a neutral perspective, which nation on earth will give a miniaturized PWR to Pakistan for a Nuke sub. I mean leasing a nuke sub is one case & giving nuke reactors off the shelf a totally different one. Besides fitting it inside a submarine hull is again a tech. hurdle, this was the very reason why INS arihant got delayed.

The thread is about 'can or cannot'.
Not about political and financial limitations.
My arguments are about infrastructure,and its there.
Technical knowhow is there.

Can pakistan make or arrange a reactor? Dont know.

A vertical launch system for missile launch isnt there yet.

A ballistic missile for submarine also isnt there yet.

About Arihant, its another victim of india's ''re inventing the wheel' doctrine.

 

[Safriz]

Does Pakistan have any experience in Submarine construction???

PNS saad and Hamza were both built in karachi by Pakistani and French engineers.
Plus PN had much input into Augosta subs to an extent that Pakistan has her own version called Khalid class.
Many PN submarine officers were trained in France..

So yes,technical ability is there.

 

[farhan_9909]

Third agosta90b was built from scratch in pakistan.

Khalid Class (Fr Agosta 90B)

The maximum transfer of Technology was envisaged in submarine No. 3. The cylindrical part of the pressure hull was to be built from raw plates. All major structures and appendages were to be built in Pakistan. The work of pressure hull construction also started in 1997, was shared between PN Dockyard and KS&EW. PN Dockyard provided the material after cutting to size and shape on NC cutting machine to KS&EW. This kit of material was rolled/formed and welded to make 12 subsections. These subsections were taken to Section Building Hall in PN Dockyard to make 03 large sections. On completion of pressure hull these three sections were pre-outfitted with decks, bulkheads and large structures. Based on similar construction methodology these sections along with Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system MESMA, was lowered into Graving dock on 19 August 2003 and outfiting started.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/khalid.htm

Pakistan and DCN France signed a contract for 3 Agosta 90-B submarines on 21 September 1994 and was valued at 5,4 billion francs (~ 775 million dollars). Financing for the contract rested on credit given to Pakistan by France and while allowing France to export the submarines nonetheless resulted in significant financial losses. Pakistan Navy engineers and workmen were to be trained and qualified in the construction processes. DCN was to assist PN Dockyard to upgrade the infrastructure for construction of submarine. To optimize the available infrastructure some works were shared with KS&EW as well.

Under the contract, one submarine was to be built in France while the remaining two were to be built indigenously in Pakistan. The first unit, "Khalid," was built in Cherbourg and delivered to Pakistan in 1999-2000. The Khalid is named after Hazrat Khalid Bin Walid, a successful military commanders of Islam who was bestowed the title of 'Saif Ullah' by the Holy Prophet. The second unit, "Saad," was begun in Cherbourg and sent to the Karachi Dockyard for modular assembly in 2000. The third unit, "Hamza," was manufactured entirely in Karachi.

 

[Sedqal]

Where there is a will there is a way. Other then that I am not well versed in military equipment and can't recommend 'for' or 'against'.

 

[arp2041]

The thread is about 'can or cannot'.
Not about political and financial limitations.
My arguments are about infrastructure,and its there.
Technical knowhow is there.

Can pakistan make or arrange a reactor? Dont know.

A vertical launch system for missile launch isnt there yet.

A ballistic missile for submarine also isnt there yet.

About Arihant, its another victim of india's ''re inventing the wheel' doctrine.

I don't want to divert the topic but can u explain this point??? U know the biggest tech. hurdle which India faced was actually integrating the PWR to the hull. And NO, India didn't reinvent the wheel, Arihant is based on Russian Akula-I.

 

[Safriz]

I don't want to divert the topic but can u explain this point??? U know the biggest tech. hurdle which India faced was actually integrating the PWR to the hull. And NO, India didn't reinvent the wheel, Arihant is based on Russian Akula-I.

yes because India made her own reactor,instead of picking up a tried and tested design known to work on this type of submarines...

 

[farhan_9909]

I don't want to divert the topic but can u explain this point??? U know the biggest tech. hurdle which India faced was actually integrating the PWR to the hull. And NO, India didn't reinvent the wheel, Arihant is based on Russian Akula-I.

direct help of russian in your sub based nuclear reactor

 

[arp2041]

yes because India made her own reactor,instead of picking up a tried and tested design known to work on this type of submarines...

Did u even understand the technicalities of the issue before posting?? As i understand ur statement, u mean to say that India first made a reactor & when it did not go with the design, it made another one Indian scientists made the reactor with exact specifications needed for the sub(everything is planned before actual construction starts), the problem they faced was to INTEGRATE it to the hull in complete working condition.

 

[Safriz]

Did u even understand the technicalities of the issue before posting?? As i understand ur statement, u mean to say that India first made a reactor & when it did not go with the design, it made another one Indian scientists made the reactor with exact specifications needed for the sub(everything is planned before actual construction starts), the problem they faced was to INTEGRATE it to the hull in complete working condition.

Hello,
I will have to study the conundrum in detail and will post about it later...
Integration of Reactor it was?

Daccan herald blames the low output of the reactor.. Not integration.

The 80 Mwe nuclear reactor on-board the submarine is yet to be functional more than three years after the submarine was launched in water. The reactor is yet to produce the energy required to propel the 6000-tonne submarine

 

[DroneAcharya]

Did u even understand the technicalities of the issue before posting?? As i understand ur statement, u mean to say that India first made a reactor & when it did not go with the design, it made another one Indian scientists made the reactor with exact specifications needed for the sub(everything is planned before actual construction starts), the problem they faced was to INTEGRATE it to the hull in complete working condition.

And not just that, people here do not understand the significant risks incurred in fabricating a PWR, especially for controlled reaction which is far far worse than designing a AIP system. And also, they need the know-how of using the right materials for the reactor, which will involve at least a decade of trial-and-error given the current PN R&D capabilities.

 

[arp2041]

Hello,
I will have to study the conundrum in detail and will post about it later...
Integration of Reactor it was?

Daccan herald blames the low output of the reactor.. Not integration.

Read these, u'll understand:

Nuclear arm

INS Arihant SSBN - IDP Sentinel

The challenge before BARC was to compact the reactor enough to fit it into the 10m diameter hull of the submarine.

"We have so far developed reactors built on the shore. But the submarine is a moving platform. It is rolling and pitching, and undergoes other kinds of motion. Against these, we have designed and developed this compact reactor. This is a major achievement," Dr. Srikumar Banerjee, BARC Director, told The Hindu.

These links aptly summarizes, how difficult is to make a nuclear propulsion system.

 

[Safriz]

^^^ The reactor was an indigenous Indian design....enough said.

i will read the links you posted in detail,and reply later...

For now Pakistan will be better off obtaining the Qing class Chinese submarines...
Fully capable of carrying ballistic missiles...