Can a Helicopter destroy An Aeroplane

[shehbazi2001]

Dogfight between helicopter and fast jet is highly dissimilar and uneven. It is not easy for either of the one to shoot down the other but is especially difficult for the helicopter to shoot the jet because of the large relative velocity difference. The heat-seeking WVR missile has to be brought into its launch zone (DLZ) to assure a kill, otherwise it will be wasted.

An important constituent of DLZ is the difference of altitude between target and launch aircraft and here the fast fighter jet can soon get out of the DLZ of helicopter's short-range missile.

Fighter jets have one other weapon, the BVR AAM, that can relatively easily shoot down the helicopters. The overall point is that close fight or dogfight with helicopter using guns is difficult but shooting it down with all-aspect WVR or radar-guided BVR missile is relatively easy, especially if helicopter is not hugging the terrain.

An example is the Gulf war shoot down of Black Hawk helicopters by USAF F-15 Eagles employing AIM-7 Sparrows. Blawk Hawks had turned off the IFF sets and got killed by own fighters. The explosions were picked by US satellites too.

I found an example of air combat between gunship helicopter and PAF Mirage fighters on the following ACIG site. I dont know whether details are authentic but I am presenting it as an example of dissimilar air combat between chopper and jet.

Afghanistan, 1979-2001; Part 1 - acig.org

probably third engagement of Pakistani Mirages happened on 14 May 1986, around 11:00AM, when At 11:00AM of 14 May 1986, Sqn.Ldr. Ro Qamar Sulemany and Flt.Lt. Nawaz of the 18th Sqn were on a CAP SE of Parachinar, when the GCI vectored them towards several slow flying targets closing at the border. Closing at high speed, both Mirage pilots experienced a dilemma of many fast-jet fliers when confronting heavily armed but slow attack helicopters. Turning several times around their targets, Sulemany finally acquired a lock on and attacked from a distance of 1.4 kilometres, pressing the trigger at a distance of 900 meters. The guns didn’t fire, and Sulemany made place for this wingman. Nawaz also tried to open fire from a distance of 800 to 900 meters, but his guns wouldn’t fire again. Finally, both Mirages returned straight to their base. Subsequent inspection showed, that the gun circuit breaker of Sulemany’s aircraft popped out because of short-cut in the gun pack, while his wingman forgot to remove the gun trigger latch before firing. Technical problems and inexperience of Pakistani pilots thus deprived them of scoring two kills.

Does the article mention our current Air Chief?
However, I guess that both Mirages did not have all-aspect missiles otherwise they would have fired it straight head-on without the need to make several turns.

Perhaps F-6s were not available (operationally so, I dont mean induction)at that time or whatever the reason but Mirage has a higher stall speed among fighters and for combat with helicopter, a fighter with lower stall speed would have been better. F-6 could have performed better than Mirage in this scenario. The GCI seems to have sent the slow-speed F-6 to chase high-speed jets and sent high-speed Mirages to get slow-speed choppers.

The ideal combination could have been a pair of F-6s from Peshawar and a pair of Mirages from Kamra or single Mirage/F-6 pair when both helicopters and jets were violating Pakistani airspace. Mirage/F6 pair could have been an ideal pair even for air combats with superior turning performance of F-6 combined with superior energy and speed of Mirage.

 

[gambit]

I saw a sort of documentry in which a Mil Mi-24 Hind shot down an aircraft with an Air-to-Air missile. Don't know much about that scenario but a Helicopter can shoot an Aircraft, it's not impossible, obviously the Aircraft has a clear edge over the heli but it depends also in which circumstances they are.

one question: Are Mil Mi-24 Hinds or other western Gunship Helicopters have some sort of air-to-air missiles similar to AIM-120??

Radar power is highly dependent upon antenna physical dimension and a missile's radar antenna is often smaller than a human hand. Constraining factors are physical scan limit, meaning the missile's nosecone available space, and antenna motor rate, meaning how fast can the antenna nutate.

Nutation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nutation is the circular movement of the antenna around a theoretical center, as illustrated below...

Never mind the Phalanx assembly for now and just notice the radar beam pattern. If the missile's radar is of inferior design, it may have erratic nutations and can easily lose target track. Missile radars do not sweep side-side as often portrayed in popular media. Scan patterns and their applicabilities make up a distinct engineering discipline in radar detection.

Another influence is radome aberation...

If a missile is of inferior material and maintenance, meaning the missile is left exposed to the elements for long period of time, the radome itself can minutely deform and induce various target errors. An adequate missile must be sufficiently robust in manufacture and sophisticated in avionics to be nearly %100 autonomous but even so it should have initial target data from the launch platform. A helo's radar is usually optimized for ground and low altitude target detection where the targets are often slow moving compared to a jet fighter's speed and may not be able to compensate rapid target positional changes.

These and others are why it is mainly an intellectual exercise and can be futile to argue in hindsight on why a missile miss its target, even for the American AMRAAM, as we do not know all the facts on missile design, manufacture and maintenance.

The infrared sensor equipped Sidewinder is probably the best weapon a helo can use against a fast mover. Infrared sensor rely on the target's self generated emissions but infrared sensors have nearly zero efficacy on target range estimation, which is available with radar detection, thereby requiring the shooter to position himself in a tail chase position for the infrared sensor to acquire target emission. In a mano-a-mano fight between helo and a jet fighter, the odds of the helo winning the fight is so remote that it is safe to say there will be no contest -- the jet fighter win. That leave only the element of surprise for the helo if it is to have a successful shoot down of the jet fighter.

The AMRAAM AIM-120 weighs 340 pounds and uses an advanced solid-fuel rocket motor to achieve a speed of Mach 4 and a range in excess of 30 miles.
so it could be a potential threat to any aircraft!

There is one question: if the world most advanced AMRAAM's have the range in excess of 30 miles then it's not really usefull to have a radar that can detect a target beyond 150 miles, obviously it's an advantage to track your enemy before it's detect you but if you can't shoot the target then you do not have a major edge over the enemy.

I'm a bit confused....maybe i'm wrong with the figures, so if any member could help and explain me a bit on the topic??...thanks!!

It is useful for multiple targets situation -- threat priority. Say you detect at 180 miles out an enemy AWACS but several incomings are clearly fighters gunning for you. The immediate threats to you are the fighters but the long term threat to your side's interests in the war is clearly the AWACS. Deny the enemy his ability for long distance detection so you can exercise air superiority with your own AWACS.

 

[murshid]

Helicopter can destroy An Aeroplane UNLESS it won't engaged into a dogfight.

 

[MMG]

Yes it can if it comes upon a f-16 resting on ground or hanger...

 

[HariPrasad]

sure.... i have done it lots of times in Battlefield2.

And Plane was not parked on land, Right?

 

[volatile]

Yes quite possible if Pilot in aeroplane is partially or completely blind ,so in order to destroy aeroplane from chopper one has to put some sort of spices in the eyes of pilot of fighter jet which during flight took its tool then theory can be proved.
On a serious note if by any mean only chopper i can think of is Comanche armed with some A2A missile as it has stealth features other wise it is like killing duck with tank

 

[Tipu7]

It would be great if you'd teach me something worthwhile. pls dont say that it cant be done in this forum, i can give u my email if u want.
Thanks BTW.

Large Cargo Planes can be killed by Air to air missile by a Attack Gunship.....
As for fighter jets??
Nope nope .......
Gunships and fighter jets are meant for different purposes, so they cannot cover up each other role....

 

[New Resolve]

Its been done in the 80's

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Helicopter has a Air to Air missile , and if the Helicopter / Jet are in same range in relation to each other where the missile can get get a lock on or it takes effect, than yes , a helicopter can knock out a Jet

Speed wise Jet can outrun a helicopter turn and shoot but helicopter can just turn on its access and shoot multiple times/ Rate of climb in altitude or lower is also in Jets favor

But Fighter Jet has a big advantage unless the copter was able to JAM a fighter's radar for BVR strike

Helicopters are more less for Protection of Tanks and Antiaircraft guns , and destroyer ground buildings which are occupied by infantry.

 

[SP!TF!R3]

There is a mention of 1 incident...Mi-24 shot down an F-14 in June 8th 1982 over the Bekka Valley. Careful examination showed it was an F-14, the Mi-24 fired two R-60s at the distance of 8 km.

either it is a F-14 or Iranian F-4..I read two different accounts.

In fact,MI-24 shot down 10 AH-1s during Iraq-Iran war.

 

[khail007]

Heli shotdown a fighter, any known example in history?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Silly posts by young kids----. It is better to do some research before posting your comments.

Helicopters equipped with air to air missiles is something the aircraft fear the most---because this threat can just pop up from behind a building----some trees----or around a mountain and just let go.

The kill ratio is very high is simulated training excercizes.

 

[Areesh]

Edited.

 

[Super Falcon]

It can but once in a blue moon befor helo react fighter jet already have fired missile

Reason fighter jet radars are more powerfull and have more range

Helo radars are piwerfull but has limited range and most of its searchins or targeting system searchex targets on land based so it cant react on time to destroy fast moving fighter jet but as i said once in a blue moon it is possible

 

[Shabi1]

could it hover and super cruise at the same time?

Those are Airwolf specs!!!And it did regularly shoot down jets

Range 950 miles (armed crew of 3)[15]
Midair refuel capable[15]
1,450 miles long range (crew of 2)[15]
Flight
Ceiling 11,000 feet (3,400 m) unpressurized[15]
89,000 feet pressurized[15]
THIRD SEASON
100,000 feet pressurized[16]

Speed 300 kn (560 km/h; 350 mph) (conventional)
Mach 1+ (turbo thrusters)[15]
Mach 2 Maximum speed