Buddhism v Islam in Asia Fears of a new religious strife

[Not Sure]

People clutch at any straw when they are desperate.



This has been pulled out of thin air and spread by our Marxist and Islamist apologist historians like Romila Thapar and Irfan Habib just so that no one dares talk about the bigotry of the Islamic invaders.

And no doubt, the global Islamists have latched on to it.

Re Shunga -The thing is that the outsiders (out of South Asia) cannot digest the fact that India, while a majority Hindu state, had emperors that came from minority religions and castes that are considered lower today.

It is mind boggling to them how could people from the minority could come and rule entire state and yet the majority lived peacefully. So they look for anything, even a lone case to build their lies, and it comes in the form of first Brahmin king - Pushyamitra Shunga.

Yet, what they forget is if there were even a slight form of persecution, the pilgrimage temple and Bodhi Satva peepal tree wouldn't have survived. On the contrary, it was well taken care of and greater number of Stupas were built.

And yet, they close their eyes to the fact that puritan view of the nation state came into existence in the states ruled by Abrahmic religions, esp Islam. And even in the modern days, the Bamiyan statues were destroyed - needlessly - by campaigners of Islam.

No matter how much they try to deny that and say Taliban is a twisted form of Islam or not even Islamic, the fact remains that they call themselves Muslim, and claim to follow Quran. In fact, some times it appears that the Taliban follows Quran ever more strictly than any other Muslims we see in this world.

 

[Vinod2070]

Cry me a river
And would do so again a million times over, for the proud and noble chose the right path. I'm not forcing you to convert so why does your a55 burn so bright regarding what I converted to of my free will?

Good to tell yourself that.

Anyway, I couldn't care less. I give a damn only when I see self loathing and trying to denigrate the religion of your ancestors.

That will earn you getting back at your current one.

 

[Wholegrain]

Respond to what?

The Chinese government and ETIM itself characterizes the attacks as "Jihad", and driven by a goal to create an Islamic state called East Turkestan.

There is nothing to refute.

I don't care about your grudge with the CCP or whatever.

Haha, you think I have a grudge against the CCP? Actually the KMT did alot more harm to my family.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...seizes-taiwan-fishing-boat-2.html#post4290768

Your not responding to what ETIM uses as recruitment for their cause. I've watched the Arabic version of their videos created by the Al Furqan media wing online. They talk about the Second East Turkestan Republic in 1944 and claimed that it was invaded by China, blah blah blah. That version was intended for foreign consumption (arabs and other non Uyghurs) but ETIM must be using similar videos for Uyghurs. The video isn't all about Jihad against Kuffar. They play on historical narrratives and portray victimhood.

What they don't mention - the Second East Turkestan Republic was a Soviet puppet state which was supported by the Soviet Red Army in 1944 against the Republic of China and their leader Ehmetjan Qasim was a Soviet Communist party member.

What they also don't mention - the Qing allowed the mullahs to rule over the Turkic Muslims in the Tarim Basin and even apply sharia law (to muslims only) and didn't try to interefere with their religious beliefs. They also don't mention that the Qing invasion was to liberate the Uyghurs from the Dzunghars and their Khoja puppets and collaborators. The Chagatai Prince of Kumul and Uyghurs of Turfan joined the Qing for protection against the Dzunghars.

If the CCP is teaching separatism to the Uyghurs in their history and teaching Uyghurs to identitify with a label created to promote separatism, do you expect those Uyghur kids to grow up loving the motherland?

 

[anonymus]

The Hindutvada aim is to purge India of all alien religions, and Zoroastrianism is an alien religion.

But Catholic Church in Goa is supporter of Hindutva parties.

How would you explain this dichotmy?

 

[Vinod2070]

The Hindutvada aim is to purge India of all alien religions, and Zoroastrianism is an alien religion.

Not all.

Just those that didn't mind using "degree of force".

Those who live by the sword would die by it. The "degree of force" in the reverse direction shouldn't matter as well.

Irrelevant. The salient point is that Buddhists do NOT accept all aspects of Hinduism.
The two faiths are NOT identical, and are sufficiently different to cause conflict.
The fact that you guys keep denying the conflict won't change reality.

Well, no and the reality bears that out. Hindus consider the Buddha as an incarnation.

And yes, you would have to think so because you have to think that others have to be as much bigots as the Islamists.

That is just not borne out by facts.

Re Shunga -The thing is that the outsiders (out of South Asia) cannot digest the fact that India, while a majority Hindu state, had emperors that came from minority religions and castes that are considered lower today.

It is mind boggling to them how could people from the minority could come and rule entire state and yet the majority lived peacefully. So they look for anything, even a lone case to build their lies, and it comes in the form of first Brahmin king - Pushyamitra Shunga.

Yet, what they forget is if there were even a slight form of persecution, the pilgrimage temple and Bodhi Satva peepal tree wouldn't have survived. On the contrary, it was well taken care of and greater number of Stupas were built.

And yet, they close their eyes to the fact that puritan view of the nation state came into existence in the states ruled by Abrahmic religions, esp Islam. And even in the modern days, the Bamiyan statues were destroyed - needlessly - by campaigners of Islam.

No matter how much they try to deny that and say Taliban is a twisted form of Islam or not even Islamic, the fact remains that they call themselves Muslim, and claim to follow Quran. In fact, some times it appears that the Taliban follows Quran ever more strictly than any other Muslims we see in this world.

That is something that none can deny.

they can only try and fake stuff.

 

[Developereo]

Apart from that controversial piece of idea about that single reign, there is no talk of Buddhists facing trouble in India in any of the history books. If you have anything to show to the contrary from some well authenticated history book, I would welcome it!

Not to be trite, but that subject has been debated a lot on this forum, with references. I just don't have them handy at the moment.

 

[Vinod2070]

Not to be trite, but that subject has been debated a lot on this forum, with references. I just don't have them handy at the moment.

So would two wrongs make a right in this case?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

My point was that highlighting the religious angle will only play into the hands of the religious extremists and attract crazies from all over the place. Framing it as an ethnic conflict and making clear that the conflict is NOT about Islam will counteract the recruiting propaganda for the terrorists.

I'm going to agree with the CCP on this one. ETIM is now a cross-border terrorist group, with support and camps in the Af-Pak region.

There is no use covering up their motivation when they can broadcast it themselves. Just look at their own statements, or even their name.

The CCP spokesperson chooses their words carefully, and Hou Hanmin used the word "Jihad" repeatedly when describing the Xinjiang attacks.

Why? To attract sympathy from other nations who have been hit by the same thing? Or maybe because it is true, like it is all over the world.

 

[ghauri05]

Muslim staggering birth rate is the major cause of worry all over from Europe to Russia to Asia.

The notion that with this alarming Muslim birth rate comes anarchy, call for medieval laws, militancy, crime, violence and overall breakdown of society is what's pushing peaceful communities to oppose it.

Well who is speaking, India, the country which has the largest population and i m sure the majority of them are Hindus. And the second thing stop associating every evil to muslims your own country has many non-muslim organizations which spread all these evils in your own country( Just wake up and go outside and have a tour of your own country).

 

[Developereo]

But Catholic Church in Goa is supporter of Hindutva parties.

How would you explain this dichotmy?

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

Also, for Hindutva crowd, targeting Christians is not going to be quite as easy as targeting Muslims.

 

[Iggy]

@Developereo, did you bothered to read the link you gave me.. Apart from the below part, I didnt see anything that says Hindus and Buddhist were are war.. The author just conveniently termed Tamil Tigers as Hindus with out any proof to back it up.. I do not see anywhere it mentions Buddhist temples are attacked or burned..


Alas, when you fall in love with a place, you encounter its history, which is often tragic. In fact, Kandy has remained seedily quaint, its monuments and ambience unravaged by mass tourism, only because Sri Lanka has experienced more than a quarter century of civil war between ethnic Sinhalese Buddhists and Hindu Tamils. And the origins and conduct of that savage conflict have drawn, in many ways, from the same emotional wellsprings as the tradition of worship at Kandy’s tranquil Buddhist shrines.

 

[Not Sure]

Not to be trite, but that subject has been debated a lot on this forum, with references. I just don't have them handy at the moment.

I have been around here for quite a while now. And I have actually seen how it has been debated among the 'intellectuals' of this forum.

If you were to ask me for any piece of evidence to support my statements, I would hunt for the one that is completely free of any controversy, and would produce it every single time you ask me for it.

I have had the privilege of discussing the same subject matter with some of the most renowned history scholars in Asia. And if you were to trust me, I would have no qualms in accepting the truth no matter what form it comes in. I am neither an apologetic, nor a campaigner.

Perhaps you are thinking that I would try to hide the shortcomings and crimes of Hindus because I am one. But no, I am among those Hindus who say that the likes of VHP, Shiv Sena, and Bajrang Dal are no different from the Taliban in Afghanistan.

May be, you can try to think of yourself as some non-existent individual with no affiliation to any nation and religion, and then look at the history. Perhaps then, with all the bias disappearing, you would be able to differentiate between what has been stated out of self-interest, and what can actually be traced to facts.

But when you bring in stuff like this:

The Sinhalese, argues de Silva, see their historical destiny in preserving Theravada Buddhism from a Hindu revivalist assault, with southern India the source of these invasions. As they see it, they are a lonely people, with few ethnic compatriots anywhere, who have been pushed to their final sanctuary, the southern two-thirds of Sri Lanka, by the demographic immensity of majority-Hindu India.[/I]

One won't even know what to say after that. When you portray someone's 'argument' as a piece of fact, then it is not going to reach anywhere. Why not read the history and build your arguments all by yourself?

These 'arguments' and 'claims' based on twisted assumptions don't do any good, and someone like you would be expected to recognize it right away.

 

[Developereo]

If the CCP is teaching separatism to the Uyghurs in their history and teaching Uyghurs to identitify with a label created to promote separatism, do you expect those Uyghur kids to grow up loving the motherland?

I believe the Uighur conflict is primarily an ethnic/cultural conflict, but the Uighurs are framing it as a Muslim issue to attract foreign support. That's why the CCP should be trying to downplay the religious angle as much as possible.

 

[Wholegrain]

I'm going to agree with the CCP on this one. ETIM is now a cross-border terrorist group, with support and camps in the Af-Pak region.

There is no use covering up their motivation when they can broadcast it themselves.

The CCP spokesperson chooses their words carefully, and Hou Hanmin used the word "Jihad" repeatedly when describing the Xinjiang attacks.

Why? To attract sympathy from other nations who have been hit by the same thing? Or maybe because it is true, like it is all over the world.

Hou Hanmin speaks only for the CCP branch in Xinjiang. The CCP branch in Xinjiang implements its own queer policies and hasn't focused on devloping the Tarim Basin enough, where the Uyghurs native land is. They also don't like religion too much which is why they keep talking about religious extremism,

The CCP branch in Ningxia developed the region and even encourages the Islamic clothing industry and Halal industry there and women's veils are promoted there. The Islamic sects, both Sufis and non Sufis like Ikhwan/Yihewani are allowed to flourish in the region. Qinghai and Gansu is also being developed. Salafis, Wahhabis are openly tolerated by the CCP in those regions, the Salafis have their own sect in there.

ETIM also plays on Uyghur nationalism which the CCP feeds to Uyghurs in their history curriculumn.

 

[Developereo]

@Developereo, did you bothered to read the link you gave me.. Apart from the below part, I didnt see anything that says Hindus and Buddhist were are war..

Not only did I read the article, I quoted the relevant part which explains that concern of Sinhalese Buddhists vis-a-vis a massive Hindu giant up north and their brethren in Sri Lanka.

I have been around here for quite a while now. And I have actually seen how it has been debated among the 'intellectuals' of this forum.

Well, the threads are there and if you don't agree with the historians quoted in there, that's fine.

One won't even know what to say after that. When you portray someone's 'argument' as a piece of fact, then it is not going to reach anywhere. Why not read the history and build your arguments all by yourself?

The 'argument' here is one explanation of the tensions underlying the Sri-Lankan conflict. The conflict is factual, and the author explains the ethnic and religious dimensions of the conflict.