Britain may sell aircraft carrier to India to limit cuts

[gubbi]

I happen to know the source of these pics. It would be excellent if you post the information regarding the self-defense capabilities of the boats, which the above pic depicts.
Btw, the source is an excellent, detailed and informative analysis (Planeman?)!!

 

[TheBraveHeart]

Hey guys, am a big fan of Indian Navy, especially the AC but in my very honest opinion, the Navy wont b gettin it since

1. Royal navy cant for all reasons whatsoever let go such a big ship if it has to project itself as a true blue water navy.

2. the cost involved is to high for IN

3. IN has already plans for 3 AC by 2020.

4. More ever the mig-29 wont b able to fly on it and India wud hv to invest in JSF which shall further aggravate the costs.

5. at best IN can use it for intimidatin russia with vikramaditya price by bein in news about such an audacious deal as a replacement if talks fail.

6. Roal navy by then ie 2018 can continue to look otherways nd once the ship is constructed and britain is out of financial crisis they can press hard to put it back on track.

 

[gubbi]

Hey guys, am a big fan of Indian Navy, especially the AC but in my very honest opinion, the Navy wont b gettin it since

1. Royal navy cant for all reasons whatsoever let go such a big ship if it has to project itself as a true blue water navy.

2. the cost involved is to high for IN

3. IN has already plans for 3 AC by 2020.

4. More ever the mig-29 wont b able to fly on it and India wud hv to invest in JSF which shall further aggravate the costs.

5. at best IN can use it for intimidatin russia with vikramaditya price by bein in news about such an audacious deal as a replacement if talks fail.

6. Roal navy by then ie 2018 can continue to look otherways nd once the ship is constructed and britain is out of financial crisis they can press hard to put it back on track.

That boat's estimated cost is 2 bln Pounds. India can very well afford this ship, if the MoD so decides.

With a little modification Mig-29s can be operated from this boat.

Aircraft and carrier format selection
At the same time it was announced that the carriers would take the form of large, conventional carriers, initially adapted for STOVL operations. The carriers, expected to remain in service for 50 years, are designed for, but not with, catapults and arrestor wires. The carrier is thus said to be "future proof", allowing it to operate a generation of CATOBAR aircraft beyond the F-35.

So, India is not contemplating to buy F-35s. Interestingly I read somewhere that if F-16 is selected in the MMRCA, India would be given a future option for buying the F-35, but I call bullocks! Anyway, India has the FGFA (naval version maybe?).

If an opportunity arises to buy a state of the art aircraft carrier, and with loads of money at its disposal, why wouldn't India jump at it?

Royal Navy is undergoing major cost cutting! But since the aircraft carriers are already paid for, its not viable to cancel the building of these ships. 10,000 UK jobs are at risk here so the ships will be built but the Royal Navy may field only one while deciding to lease/sell the other to India!

 

[TheBraveHeart]

@ to gubbi:

The amount u suggest is just to low, u dont take into account the amount to b paid in transfer which will in end escalate to about $5bn ,wheras vikrantt is bein built for not more than $1.5bn although its size is small. Vikramaditya is not more than $2.9bn along with aircraft...

Also we shud take in account that AC sails with a fleet of around 10 other ships which are available..normaly 2-3 FFG and 2-3 DDG , couple of subs, atleast one replenishment tanker,and/or a couple of small ships.

Shivalik class FFG and Kolkata class are mainly for Vikramaditya, the talwar and bhramaputra along with Delhi class for Vikrant and current viraat but for The Queens class u need FFG and DDG which are better than one mentioned with more displacement and fire power since its a big carrier. U may say IN is buldin P17A and P15B but these are just modifications over previous classes. IN navy wud need more, also u cant escort such a cariier with current subs or even scorpenes which are more inclined for shore bassed operations.

In that respect IN will need SSNs to give escort which wud b more reliable , also where is a replenishment tanker with more fuel load that the ones ordered. Now just a small maths can tell u, IN will have to invest around $12-15bn over next ten years, alongside the money for other 2 AC . Indias defence budget not more than $34bn and navys share around 15% wher will money come from.

U may also argue that IN can build all escorts in India at cheap cost but remmeber even P17A class cant be built without any modifications of the curent shipyards which shall only be over in 2012 at best...and suitable to build only escorts for Vikrant...

Just to end ....we dont need to b too ambitious...the report was just a thought and was meant to be just that..

PS. Nothins personal above

 

[TheBraveHeart]

Also, just a quick look in history Britain cant be relied upon if u go through the 1985 drama with australia..can check on wiki....

 

[inferno]

 

[inferno]

 

[inferno]

 

[inferno]

Howz That guys.. Isn`t it cool.....

 

[marcos98]

Artist impression of Queen Elizabeth Class

 

[inferno]

Ministry of Defence computer generated image of how a controversial future giant aircraft carrier would look in its home base was unveiled today by the Royal Navy. It shows one of the carriers alongside at Portsmouth Naval Base, Hampshire, where it would take up three jetties

An impression of how a controversial future giant aircraft carrier would look in its home base has been unveiled today by the Royal Navy.

The computer-generated image has been created to give an impression of the scale of the next generation of warships which are due to enter service in 2015.

It shows one of the carriers alongside at Portsmouth Naval Base, Hampshire, where it would take up three jetties.

The ships will be the biggest and most powerful warships ever designed and built in the UK.

They will be 70 metres wide and the flight deck area is equivalent to 49 tennis courts or three football pitches and large enough to take up to 40 aircraft.

The Government has given the go-ahead for the creation of the HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales despite criticism that the funding would be better spent elsewhere in the armed forces.

Captain Paul Lemkes, deputy naval base commander, said: 'The image brings home the sheer scale of our future aircraft carriers and there is a great deal of work in hand to ensure that the naval base is ready to support them when they enter service.

'As well as bringing a much-needed addition to the UK's joint military capability, they will be a magnificent sight and will, undoubtedly, make a huge impact on the Portsmouth skyline when alongside as well as generating great interest throughout the region.'

Preliminary work is already under way in the naval base to accommodate the vessels.

Assessments to define the exact work required have been completed and an impact study is under way to identify any measures required to safeguard the environment.

Three jetties on the western edge of the base will have to be upgraded and extra shore services will be needed, including an increase in electrical supply.

Approach channels to the base will have to be dredged to a depth of 10.5 metres - current depth is 9.5 metres - to cope with the ships, which will have a full displacement of 65,000 tonnes.

 

[lockh33d]

Ministry of Defence computer generated image of how a controversial future giant aircraft carrier would look in its home base was unveiled today by the Royal Navy. It shows one of the carriers alongside at Portsmouth Naval Base, Hampshire, where it would take up three jetties

An impression of how a controversial future giant aircraft carrier would look in its home base has been unveiled today by the Royal Navy.

The computer-generated image has been created to give an impression of the scale of the next generation of warships which are due to enter service in 2015.

It shows one of the carriers alongside at Portsmouth Naval Base, Hampshire, where it would take up three jetties.

The ships will be the biggest and most powerful warships ever designed and built in the UK.

They will be 70 metres wide and the flight deck area is equivalent to 49 tennis courts or three football pitches and large enough to take up to 40 aircraft.

The Government has given the go-ahead for the creation of the HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales despite criticism that the funding would be better spent elsewhere in the armed forces.

Captain Paul Lemkes, deputy naval base commander, said: 'The image brings home the sheer scale of our future aircraft carriers and there is a great deal of work in hand to ensure that the naval base is ready to support them when they enter service.

'As well as bringing a much-needed addition to the UK's joint military capability, they will be a magnificent sight and will, undoubtedly, make a huge impact on the Portsmouth skyline when alongside as well as generating great interest throughout the region.'

Preliminary work is already under way in the naval base to accommodate the vessels.

Assessments to define the exact work required have been completed and an impact study is under way to identify any measures required to safeguard the environment.

Three jetties on the western edge of the base will have to be upgraded and extra shore services will be needed, including an increase in electrical supply.

Approach channels to the base will have to be dredged to a depth of 10.5 metres - current depth is 9.5 metres - to cope with the ships, which will have a full displacement of 65,000 tonnes.

Congrats on the purchase if it goes through, 1 question, why is the British still using Ski Jump tech? I thought it was way over that, being a close ally of the Yanks, I thought the Catapult would have been passed over. Man, gotta love the Yanks for who they are

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

well F35 is coming soon in south asia...baby............indians are a truly cultural multi specialist thats what the armed forces inventory look like....russian, british,american's AC.....F35's MIG35's, Sukhoi's....great..what a mix.....cool stuff....

 

[gogbot]

Congrats on the purchase if it goes through, 1 question, why is the British still using Ski Jump tech? I thought it was way over that, being a close ally of the Yanks, I thought the Catapult would have been passed over. Man, gotta love the Yanks for who they are

The Brits came up with the Ski Jump., STOVL when they made the Harrier.

STOVL is an acronym for Short Take Off and Vertical Landing.

This is the ability of some aircraft to take off from a short runway or take off vertically if it does not have a very heavy payload and land vertically (i.e. with no runway).
This is often accomplished on aircraft carriers through the use of "ski-jump" runways, instead of the conventional catapult system. STOVL use tends to allow aircraft to carry a larger payload as compared to during VTOL use, while still only requiring a short runway. The most famous example is probably the Hawker Siddeley Harrier Jump Jet, which though technically a VTOL aircraft, is operationally a STOVL aircraft due to the extra weight it carries at take off for fuel and armaments. The same is true of the F-35B Lightning II, which demonstrated VTOL capability in test flights but is operationally STOVL.

It was then and Still is now the Cheapest way to Lauch aircraft of a Carrier.

CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take Off But Arrested Recovery) is a system used for the launch and recovery of aircraft from the deck of an aircraft carrier. Under this technique, aircraft launch using a catapult assisted take off and land on the ship (the recovery phase) using arrestor wires. Although this system is more costly than alternative methods, it provides greater flexibility in carrier operations, since it allows the vessel to support conventional aircraft. Alternate methods of launch and recovery can only use aircraft with STOVL capability. Only three countries still operate carriers that use the CATOBAR system; the U.S. Nimitz class, and USS Enterprise (CVN-65), France's Charles De Gaulle, and Brazil's NAe São Paulo. The Future French aircraft carrier is planned to be built as CATOBAR. In order to save money, the British Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers will be built as STOVL carriers but will be able to be converted to CATOBAR if desired at a later date.

The The HMS Queen Elizebeth, The Russian carriers and Indian Carriers use STOBAR.

STOBAR (Short Take Off But Arrested Recovery) is a system used for the launch and recovery of aircraft from the deck of an aircraft carrier, combining elements of both STOVL and CATOBAR. Aircraft launch under their own power using a ski-jump to assist take-off (rather than using a catapult like most carriers). However, these are conventional, rather than STOVL aircraft, and thus require arrestor wires to land on the ship. The Russian Navy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is the only current example of a STOBAR carrier, another will be the Indian Vikramaditya and the future Vikrant class aircraft carrier. The STOBAR system is simpler to build than CATOBAR — but it works only with light, and lightly armed, fighter aircraft that have a high thrust to weight ratio.

When the Eurofighter was proposed for the "Future Carrier Borne Aircraft" it was envisaged that it would operate in a STOBAR configuration. The FCBA is to be deployed on the British Royal Navy's next generation carriers, CVF. Instead, the Lockheed Martin Lightning II, operating in a STOVL configuration, will be the FCBA.

 

[Hulk]

We should not be over excited, there is still a may and USA might not give f35 for us.