Boy from the valley

[MilSpec]

You are doing all of that at the moment , no need to play the saint card anywhere , doesn't help .

As for the cause and effect , why are the Kashmiris against the Indian rule in the first place ? Why did Pakistan feel the need to support insurgency there ? Where does the main problem start from ? Why leave that part out ? Why isn't any of this happening in our administered Kashmir ? Why dont we keep ' classified number ' of security forces in every nook and corner of Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan ?

Read again, force deployment in kashmir was primarily due to infiltration from pakistanis, and unilateral agression from pak army regulars on two occasions.

We weren't seeing any of these protests pre-80's were we, the armed forces there are to contend with the armed insurgency fostered by pakistani intelligence agency over which the government of pakistan has no control. As far as part of kashmir under pakistani admin, there is no reason for violence there as Indian doesn't have any assymetric agendas and neither has Indians infiltrating through the border with klashnikovs and rpg to kill and mame innocent civilians.

Most of the kashmir liberation leaders are nothing but pakistani LOBBYISTS.

 

[MilSpec]

Well If pakistanis are as sympathetic to the "Kashmir cause", were they sleeping from from 1947 to 1965? Why didn't they remove their security forces from the entire kashmir state to hold a plebiscite???? Instead paksitan infiltrated kashmir in 1965, ensuring that there will never be a plebiscite... Even today if pakistan is serious about kashmir cause, all it needs to do is follow the UN security councils resolution on kashmir....


the funny thing is most here, haven't even bothered to to read the plebiscite conditions, and still will cry crocodile's tears for Kashmiris.

 

[Ayush]

Well If pakistanis are as sympathetic to the "Kashmir cause", were they sleeping from from 1947 to 1965? Why didn't they remove their security forces from the entire kashmir state to hold a plebiscite???? Instead paksitan infiltrated kashmir in 1965, ensuring that there will never be a plebiscite... Even today if pakistan is serious about kashmir cause, all it needs to do is follow the UN security councils resolution on kashmir....


the funny thing is most here, haven't even bothered to to read the plebiscite conditions, and still will cry crocodile's tears for Kashmiris.

An elite Pakistani kashmiri member on PDF said that India IS not Holding Referendum and it Rejected 11 UN RESOLUTIONS. .. Is it True.* @Joe Shearer

 

[MilSpec]

^B.S.... It still stands never implemented as the pre-requisites not met...

 

[karan.1970]

Do you know the number of refugees that Pakistan host from different countries ? The question is ' why should the Kashmiris leave their land in the first place ' . Its their land , not Indian territory , considered disputed by the whole world . What makes you think that Kashmiri migrants aren't present in Pakistan ?

Its not the question of Kashmiris leaving their land or not.. Its the question of Pakistani intent which is totally hypocritical on this issue. As I said, not a single Pakistani with an offer for their so called Kashmiri muslim brothers to escape Indian oppression and move to Pakistan to have a better life

 

[Ayush]

^B.S.... It still stands never implemented as the pre-requisites not met...

this is what was said-

I didn't open up every Resolution & counted each whether it added up to 11; I relied instead on an Article written in the Times in 1957 where the author had quoted the Pakistani Foreign Minister as saying thus : Since 1949, noted Noon, "eleven proposals for settling the differences [have been] put forward. Pakistan accepted each; India rejected every one."


Apparently neither the Author nor anyone else disputed this fact !



Source -http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,723783,00.html

You'd need a subscription for that but you could read it here instead


Kashmir-A Nationless Nation: KASHMIR: India Grabs it


and this was his reply to UN RESOLUTION OF 1948 which Pakistan and India accepted. However, later on Pakistan backed out of it and asked for Amendments. -

Part 1 of the Resolution reads : The High Commands of Indian and Pakistan forces agreed to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. (For the purpose of these proposals "forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides).

We maintain that instead of adhering to the above, India moved into consolidate her position in Kashmir ! Therefore how can we initiate Part 2 of the Agreement when Part 1 wasn't being adhered to ?


u see,that member is well versed with this topic,so it left me confused.. any comments mate?? @Joe Shearer sir

 

[MilSpec]

this is what was said-

I didn't open up every Resolution & counted each whether it added up to 11; I relied instead on an Article written in the Times in 1957 where the author had quoted the Pakistani Foreign Minister as saying thus : Since 1949, noted Noon, "eleven proposals for settling the differences [have been] put forward. Pakistan accepted each; India rejected every one."


Apparently neither the Author nor anyone else disputed this fact !



Source -http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,723783,00.html

You'd need a subscription for that but you could read it here instead


Kashmir-A Nationless Nation: KASHMIR: India Grabs it


and this was his reply to UN RESOLUTION OF 1948 which Pakistan and India accepted. However, later on Pakistan backed out of it and asked for Amendments. -

Part 1 of the Resolution reads : The High Commands of Indian and Pakistan forces agreed to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. (For the purpose of these proposals "forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides).

We maintain that instead of adhering to the above, India moved into consolidate her position in Kashmir ! Therefore how can we initiate Part 2 of the Agreement when Part 1 wasn't being adhered to ?


u see,that member is well versed with this topic,so it left me confused.. any comments mate?? @Joe Shearer sir

http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...lebiscite-un-security-council-resolution.html


read for yourself.... all the resolutions right upto 21 DECEMBER 1971.

 

[Secur]

Its not the question of Kashmiris leaving their land or not.. Its the question of Pakistani intent which is totally hypocritical on this issue. As I said, not a single Pakistani with an offer for their so called Kashmiri muslim brothers to escape Indian oppression and move to Pakistan to have a better life

Check from the beginning where the discussion was headed , this whole ' migration ' thing . That is why I said ' why should the Kashmiris leave their lands in the first place ' . Pakistani hypocritical intent ? Even today , the Govt of Pakistan is more open and serious to discuss this issue which has plagued the relationship between the two countries for decades and harmed the peace and stability of the subcontinent whilst the Indians continue to harp on ' all is ours ' tone forgetting that the territory is question is disputed to the point that Islamabad has even hinted at acceptance of an independent Kashmir . As I said , do know the numbers of refugees from different countries and from the territory of Kashmir in Pakistan before making such comments . We already have a lot of refugees from IOK here in our country . Why would then , there be any reason to believe that we wont allow others to do ? But then again ' Why should they leave their land ? '

 

[Secur]

Read again, force deployment in kashmir was primarily due to infiltration from pakistanis, and unilateral agression from pak army regulars on two occasions.

As far as part of kashmir under pakistani admin, there is no reason for violence there as Indian doesn't have any assymetric agendas and neither has Indians infiltrating through the border with klashnikovs and rpg to kill and mame innocent civilians.

You talked about ' cause and effect ' , right ? I asked you to start from the beginning on why have the Kashmiris always been discontent/against with the Indian rule . The organized armed insurgency started from the 1980's , that doesn't really mean that before then , the people were happy and nothing was happening there and everything was fine . Because if that was the case , then Pakistan would have had no pretext and wouldn't have the popular support from the Kashmiri people , it got , which further emboldened it to continue . Will you deny that the Kashmiris crossed the border themselves to get training in Azad Kashmir ?

If you could , you would , mate . Despite the fact that it would be/have been in India's best interest to do so , because it will break the momentum of the secessionist movement , relieve the pressure off you , discredit the whole thing , muddle and confuse and put the pro Pakistan Kashmiris in trouble . There's more that comes with supporting insurgency in Pakistan Administered Kashmir and you know that . But since the people of those both territories are happy with Pakistani rule , you cant really do that . The support for such a thing , just isn't there .

You aren't a saint , I told you , earlier . Stop acting like one . As for the asymmetric agendas , both countries have been involved in a lot of things . Why should then , the Pakistani administered Kashmir be any different ? If not for the reasons of people's allegiance and content with Islamabad's rule . The Indians have been doing all of this , in Baluchistan and KPK and by extension in the whole Pakistan , supporting TTP and BLA , even today .

 

[Ammyy]

For the love of God or in ur case "Gods" ... dnt quote my posts! i dnt like answering to idiots!

Ohh so you can only make idiot posts but cant answer your BS???

Dnt show your frustration again and again ..... you made a tall claim of fighting spirit of kashmiri people .... but still how can some who not even belongs to kashmir can do that??

 

[Umair Nawaz]

And he is a Kashmiri.

Anyway, if Pakistan really want good trade relations with India, it has to revert back GB and P-O-K to India. Until that time all these backdoor talks, diplomacy won't yield anything. The ball is in Pakistan court.

he aint kashmiri he is a Sardar g of indian Punjab

That , mindset of wanting the land and not the people as it is frequently made known by Indian members here , is precisely the reason that you haven't been able to win the hearts of Kashmiris even after 60 years . Thank you for proving my point .

banya soach

 

[Jade]

he aint kashmiri he is a Sardar g of indian Punjab

I remember foxbat once saying he is a Kashmiri, I also remember foxbat saying that foxbat and karan are colleagues. I could be wrong.

 

[nastikan]

We wish the best for the Kashmiris and admire their determination in the face of Indian brutality.

However, the sad reality is that their struggle is doomed and Pakistan will never be able to help them in any meaningful way. The Pakistani leadership lost East Pakistan, is barely able to keep together the remaining Pakistan, and has no interest or qualifications to do anything about Kashmir.

The Pakistani leaders will happily sell out Pakistani citizens, never mind the Kashmiris, to the Indians (or anyone else) for the right commission.

Does anyone doubt for one second that the Ganja biradraan or PPP clowns will sacrifice their own business interests for the sake of ordinary Pakistanis or Kashmiris?

Wishing them the best is very different from sending your unemployed Punjabis to terrorize the valley. And if you continue to send those militants just man up to that decision and stop this sob story about Indian brutality.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Ohh so you can only make idiot posts but cant answer your BS???

Dnt show your frustration again and again ..... you made a tall claim of fighting spirit of kashmiri people .... but still how can some who not even belongs to kashmir can do that??

My frustration? are you retarded? read the article instead of talking from your rear.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Totally agree with that but gora masters aren't here anymore and these brown b@atards would kill everyone without even an iota of morality.

brown b*stards are one of us they exist everywhere
some are clean shaven
some are bearded
some are pseudo liberals
some are religious fanatics
some are called Bhagwan daas
some are called Abdullah
some kill in the name of nationalism
some kill in the name of religion

and the dying victim says, why does it matter who is my killer and how am being murdered by LeT or RSS fanatic?
I am losing my life without a fault of my own and just happen to be where this demented life taker happens to be striking.


PS: dont get weighed down by names, they are used as a reference and analogy