Blame China? Why not to blame yourself first !

[rambro]

So you dislike China. As I mentioned, China never forces others to accept our offers, we just give you a new alternative to build your country, you can always turn down the offers if they are not as good as offers given by others but you don't have to hate us for making those offers.

Precisely, in bilateral trade one can just walkaway if it is not feasible.

 

[Max]

I said China likes to use unstable countries for their own gain.

Not fit with regard to Pakistan, they helping us militarily by JV and selling weapons, they helping us overcoming power crisis which our western allies did not, giving us billions in soft loans for much needed infrastructure.

NK is dispute from 50's and soviets were also supporting them.

 

[Mage]

@beijingwalker
@Chinese-Dragon


Did you notice that you have 4 thanks here and all from Indians. Indians would like nothing better than for BD to cut it's links with China and they can dominate and bully BD as they like.

Yes, China has somewhat let BD down here but isn't most of the blame with BD here?
BD has a GDP 3.5x that of Myanmar yet Myanmar has better weapons and more of them. Do you not think there is something seriously wrong here? Both BNP and Awami League(although they do buy some modern weapons once in a while) have never been serious to have a strong defence. I am not talking about eating arms like Myanmar used to do but to build a military that would totally dominate tiny(yes Myanmar is tiny compared to BD) and have deterrence against India.

Why do some BD people think that India is as important as China? Yes, India has geographical borders with BD but it is just as underdeveloped as BD is. It is in no position to give BD massive loans at low interest rates, absorb BD exports or supply weapons.
Do you know that since China has opened it's market to BD products back in 2010, BD exports have risen an average of 30% a year from 170 million US dollars to 1 billion US dollars now. With China rapidly becoming uncompetitive in garments, China is actually shifting many of it's garment factories to BD and then exporting back into China to serve it's own 1.3 billion domestic market. By keeping close to China BD can grow this into many billions, even 10s of billions of exports by the 2030s as the Chinese consumer market will be as large as the whole of the West combined by then!

Yes, BD should diversify and and have relations with West and Muslim countries but the West is far away while China is close. West does not want a properous Asia like China does and we must all remember that. I have no idea why Awami League did not think it a good idea to cultivate close ties with Muslim countries like Turkey who will always stand by BD in situations like this - maybe she was too busy getting revenge on opponents in 1971 to care?

I don't care about thanks. And definitely don't care who thanks my post.

Let Indian's wish what they want. We will retain a good relation with China. But it will never be like China-Pak or China-Burma or China-NK relation.

Our export to China has increased but our export to west and US still remain way too higher than China. Export wise they are much more important than China.

If were looking for loans then we can look elsewhere as well. China gives that props to them. But that doesn't mean that others won't if we approach them. Also it is necessary to be cautious about Chinese loans. I don't think we are in a position to fail to pay loans back but if we do then it will be catastrophic. Just take a look at Venezuela.

I don't think there is any Muslim country with power at world stage. Maybe KSA have it a bit. But others don't. Naturally foreign relation with Muslim country wasn't high on priority.


@Zabaniyah

Not fit with regard to Pakistan, they helping us militarily by JV and selling weapons, they helping us overcoming power crisis which our western allies did not, giving us billions in soft loans for much needed infrastructure.

NK is dispute from 50's and soviets were also supporting them.

So you are not gonna pay back the loans? Are they selling weapons for free or doing projects for free? If you spill the money many will be interested to do those works.

NK my friend was doing good till soviet collapsed. Then they became totally dependent on China for support. Rest is history.

 

[EastBengalPro]

1.Attendees of OBOR Forum from South Asia nations:

Pakistan: PM, Srilanka: PM, Nepal: Vice PM.
India and Bhutan: Non, BD : An irrelevant minister, slightly better than India and Bhutan.


2. Military treaty with India, Grant a lot of sub contracts to India companies from 24 billion Chinese loan project, share Chinese money with indian hands.


3. Sonadia deep sea port project cancelled, Hmmm, due to pressure from India, US and Japan,
While Srilanka and Myanmar got no pressure from India, US and Japan when gave China Sea ports, Oil and Gas pipe lines. Now, we have sea ports in Pakistan,Srilanka,Myanmar and military base in Djibouti, fair enough to do something in Indian ocean.

4. Talking about buy J10B but we only see large amout of deals with Su30 and Mig35.



China as BD's "most important, strategy, trustfully Friend" only in Words, but in reality we all know it is India first policy!!!

Bangladeshis dont blame China. China in fact helped us indirectly by taking stand on behalf of Burma as it has opened the eyes of Pro Chinese people who used to think Chinese govt will always take side of Bangladesh in every situation.Majority Bangladeshis also used to think India-Russia their close friends due to their contribution in 1971. Indias stance was kind of Shock for most BAL supporters but I personally think situation would have been different If congress was in power,Modi and his govt have been historically Anti muslim. After the recent incidents Majority Bangladeshis now believe they dont have any real friend. Unexpectedly we enjoyed support from countries with whom BD have had bit cold relation like Turkey,Pakistan for example.

Bangladesh as usual will have the business relation with China like it had for thousand years. We will have good relation with India and Russia too. But we wont be blind towards any side anymore. We wont be a client state like Burma ever or towards any other country and historically we never were!

The recent incidents has increased the BD people,govt,media and military's sense of being "SELF RELIANT" and "SELF INTEREST" and thats the only positive but huge outcome for us.

 

[Max]

So you are not gonna pay back the loans? Are they selling weapons for free or doing projects for free? If you spill the money many will be interested to do those works.

NK my friend was doing good till soviet collapsed. Then they became totally dependent on China for support. Rest is history.

That's our headache if we cant manage our country, economy, how can we blame China for giving soft loans (less then market rates) to developing countries? no one sell weapons for free but there are partner which you can trust and then there are so called partner whom you cant trust, who sell weapons with strings attached to it, so its always good to have reliable partner such as China.

 

[UKBengali]

I don't care about thanks. And definitely don't care who thanks my post.

Let Indian's wish what they want. We will retain a good relation with China. But it will never be like China-Pak or China-Burma or China-NK relation.

Our export to China has increased but our export to west and US still remain way too higher than China. Export wise they are much more important than China.

If were looking for loans then we can look elsewhere as well. China gives that props to them. But that doesn't mean that others won't if we approach them. Also it is necessary to be cautious about Chinese loans. I don't think we are in a position to fail to pay loans back but if we do then it will be catastrophic. Just take a look at Venezuela.

I don't think there is any Muslim country with power at world stage. Maybe KSA have it a bit. But others don't. Naturally foreign relation with Muslim country wasn't high on priority.


@Zabaniyah


So you are not gonna pay back the loans? Are they selling weapons for free or doing projects for free? If you spill the money many will be interested to do those works.

NK my friend was doing good till soviet collapsed. Then they became totally dependent on China for support. Rest is history.

Couple of points:

1. Exports to China can theoretically rise to that of the whole US/EU combined in the 2030s. Simply China could become the most important single country to BD economically in the 2030s. There is no real alternative to them to allow BD exports to rise on a massive scale.

2. As far as loans are concerned, BD really needs these loans to build up it's infrastructure now. China is offering loans of 2-2.5% interest with 5 year grace period. In contrast the one for Roopur nuclear power plant that BD is getting from Russia is at 3.5-4% but with a 10 year grace period. Yes BD can look elsewhere but it will be very difficult to get those terms. There is always the risk with loans from China or anywhere else but the terms that China is providing is very good, short of the ones that Japan, ADB would provide.

While China has let BD down by not abstaining, we should not get overly emotional and ruin relations with China that still can assist BD economic and military development for it's own interests.

 

[Kandari-Hushiyaar]

Bangladeshis dont blame China. China in fact helped us indirectly by taking stand on behalf of Burma as it has opened the eyes of Pro Chinese people who used to think Chinese govt will always take side of Bangladesh in every situation.Majority Bangladeshis also used to think India-Russia their close friends due to their contribution in 1971. Indias stance was kind of Shock for most BAL supporters but I personally think situation would have been different If congress was in power,Modi and his govt have been historically Anti muslim. After the recent incidents Majority Bangladeshis now believe they dont have any real friend. Unexpectedly we enjoyed support from countries with whom BD have had bit cold relation like Turkey,Pakistan for example.

Bangladesh as usual will have the business relation with China like it had for thousand years. We will have good relation with India and Russia too. But we wont be blind towards any side anymore. We wont be a client state like Burma ever or towards any other country and historically we never were!

The recent incidents has increased the BD people,govt,media and military's sense of being "SELF RELIANT" and "SELF INTEREST" and thats the only positive but huge outcome for us.

I guess We will continue to have normal business relation with China. But there will be two major changes in the near future:

1. Bangladesh will arm itself to teeth as we are alone in this region .

2. Most of these Procurement will come from Russia replacing China as our major source of weapon.

 

[kingQamaR]

why is Bangladeshi s pointing fingers at others in there utter miserable failure in stopping Myanmar in its genocide next door since 70s . Instead All Im hearing is China let us down . How did it do that its only your trading partner !

 

[Banglar Bir]

I didn't blame China for terrorism in Pakistan or anywhere. I said China likes to use unstable countries for their own gain.

Who the hell are you RAWami dickhead to determine Bangladesh's Foreign policy?

 

[Kandari-Hushiyaar]

why is Bangladeshi s pointing fingers at others in there utter miserable failure in stopping Myanmar in its genocide next door since 70s . Instead All Im hearing is China let us down . How did it do that its only your trading partner !

What do you Suggest? Bangladesh isnt a rogue nation. It is doing its best to involve UN in every move. We always have went for UN brokered settlement both in 1978 and 1992.

 

[EastBengalPro]

why is Bangladeshi s pointing fingers at others in there utter miserable failure in stopping Myanmar in its genocide next door since 70s . Instead All Im hearing is China let us down . How did it do that its only your trading partner !

No bro we are not pointing fingure to others. Some emotional people blaming Chinese support for Burma.But we are okay with this. We are now in one step Back foot against Burma doesnt mean we always will be. We are just now bit Pacifist and try all other options except war.

 

[UKBengali]

I guess We will continue to have normal business relation with China. But there will be two major changes in the near future:

1. Bangladesh will arm itself to teeth as we are alone in this region .

2. Most of these Procurement will come from Russia replacing China as our major source of weapon.

Agreed with point 1.

Point 2, BD needs Chinese arms to provide deterrence against India. India knows all Russia weapons inside out.

 

[beijingwalker]

NK my friend was doing good till soviet collapsed. Then they became totally dependent on China for support. Rest is history.

NK never did good and China doesn't want to be suicidal Soviet Union. NK doesn't want to follow China's path despite of intensive persuasion work made by successive Chinese leaderships during 3 decades and stubbornly sticks to old Soviet style. It's a miracle that it didn't collapse just like the Soviet Union.

 

[bd_4_ever]

@Philia @UKBengali

I think both of you are speaking on the same page. I guess, we all agree more or less here that no one should be severing ties with China. That would be dumb given because we need them for our interests and we need them probably as a good partner in building our infrastructure which is crucial at this stage for us.

What we need to do is move away gradually from China as the sole defense supplier, which isnt a bad thing. I guess you both would agree to it that we need to diversify our options.. broker deals with Turkey, EU for larger arms import. Keep Russia on the side as well because all they care about it money. We dont need loans for these purchases, as thanks to our economy we can afford them. Above all, start local defense production. Sure, get all the ToTs you can from China but we need to look after our own a$$ in other ways too.

 

[beijingwalker]

@Philia @UKBengali

I think both of you are speaking on the same page. I guess, we all agree more or less here that no one should be severing ties with China. That would be dumb given because we need them for our interests and we need them probably as a good partner in building our infrastructure which is crucial at this stage for us.

What we need to do is move away gradually from China as the sole defense supplier, which isnt a bad thing. I guess you both would agree to it that we need to diversify our options.. broker deals with Turkey, EU for larger arms import. Keep Russia on the side as well because all they care about it money. We dont need loans for these purchases, as thanks to our economy we can afford them. Above all, start local defense production. Sure, get all the ToTs you can from China but we need to look after our own a$$ in other ways too.

Bangladesh is the most potential country for the economic success in this region thanks to her hardworking people and political stability. War and conflicts could only destroy the best chance for this success that is almost within reach, hope you don't get too emotional and ruin your very promising future.