BLA terrorists bomb Jinnah's Ziarat residency museum.

[Dillinger]

It took a generation to die .. to finally end a large section of racism in the US.. so the same has to be focused on the generation here. It simply has to be enforced by force and those opposing them given all help necessary. I may come up with an alternative narrative, believe in a better interpretation of my religion.. But in the end.. the effect on everyone will not be equal.. and you will always have people who are the equivalent of my favorite video which I like to spam everywhere.

Now imagine, someone of this intellect being convinced that what he understands of those words is the ONLY narrative possible and the only correct one. What if someone was enforced that the acceleration of gravity is 9.8 m/s2 holds true for every point in space?
To them it would not matter if someone goes around and shows that gravity is dependent on distance and force.. or that it is different for every point in space. Because for them the textbook narrative that g= 9.8 m/s2 is unshakable belief.
They would not believe that you will be weightless in space, and any such claims will be dismissed as going against the "practical" demonstration of throwing a stone by them since right there to their eyes they see it as 9.8m/s2. If you argue using equations and models then they will bring a thousand school text books that state g=9.8m/s2.. because that is the only information given in the school textbooks.. which will not show how it is derived nor how it came to be. Hence to these individuals, whatever the school textbook says is the only narrative on g and for all that matters.. g=9.8m/s2.

Apply the analogy to trying to counter this ideology that is being propagated as "true" Islam.. and I may have given you n inkling of the the problem that lies here.

Holy shitsnacks! Excuse my language.

You mean to say that you would have to manually rewire the thought process and ideology..said ideology being set in stone..of a significant part of your citizenry and that merely changing policies will not automatically ensure such a change in the least bit? I always thought that if the GOP just publicly and honestly disavowed every militant group and took an ax to their throats then the ideology would die with these "faithfuls". What your saying is that this will need a more grass-root level and far FAR more intensive/extensive approach spread over perhaps two decades, yes?

Sure , why not ? I see nothing wrong with a common Saudi . They have disowned this whole thing a long time ago I told you earlier . Just visit the Kingdom though .

Really , Dillinger ? You ever considered it after knowing what wonders the ' Tamil ' part has / is doing ? Even I know that particular part of your history and I see the residual effects even today in the Indian section .



I better believe in the ' heavenly scent ' and the fresh body when his grave was dug open , sir

If you know what I mean .

We disavowed the LTTE didn't we..killed them off at the cost of our own soldiers and an ex-pm without a pause. Today TN people only have an emotional attachment to the Tamils in SL..other than that the LTTE met a hard end..something which would have been nigh impossible if we had been actively supporting them to the end.

All I am saying is that at this rate you will keep killing the canon fodder while the mullahs keep casting more canon balls..that is NOT sustainable in the least bit.

 

[Dillinger]

@Yeti

Its not for Indian law to define the religious matters of Muslims as its a secular state. Its upto Muslim only to define their ways of practice and beliefs,including the Ahmadiya question.

State can define them as a Muslim group,that doesn't mean Muslims will accept that as the state is secular and has no business with the religious matters.


Now back to topic!

We're cool with that..the deobandis can maintain their distance from the Ahmadis and consider them to be non-muslims..BUT if the Ahmadis insist on being seen as Muslims then we will not enforce any law which contravenes that either..proper neutrality.

 

[Meengla]

Since much of what is happening is Baluchistan these days has a significant Afghan-connection I think it is okay to discuss Afghanistan here. @Secur is absolutely correct about Afghanistan in post #311 above. Afghans are perhaps the biggest losers of all Asian 'nations'. I once heard Harun Amin--the Northern Alliance guy on an American channel shortly after 9/11 gloating about how great Afghanistan was under King Zahir Shah in the 70's; Amin was making fun of Pakistan and roundly condemning Pakistan--of course riding on the American coat-tail like the puppet losers do. Anyway, I dug into the fabulous King's record and found only patchy progress from that 'glorious' period.

I truly feel pity for ordinary Afghanis. And I truly feel pity for these wannabes Afghan leaders. I wish Afghanistan was somewhere in the middle of the Pacific--or Pakistan was!

 

[Secur]

We disavowed the LTTE didn't we..killed them off at the cost of our own soldiers and an ex-pm without a pause. Today TN people only have an emotional attachment to the Tamils in SL..other than that the LTTE met a hard end..something which would have been nigh impossible if we had been actively supporting them to the end.

All I am saying is that at this rate you will keep killing the canon fodder while the mullahs keep casting more canon balls..that is NOT sustainable in the least bit.

I didn't deny that . I just said that you considered that , even whilst that part of your history . You lost soldiers and a political leader . Even though it will be off topic , isn't it true that the Tamils were considering the ' eelam ' in India and that is why the support was withdrawn , mate ? One can always learn .

You are right , you think that ' putting an end to an ideology ' is easy when it is anything , but such , my friend . I can consider the Philistine option in such case , better than a slow agonizing death . One thinks , at times .

@Pak-one,
The idea of 'concentration camps' is admittedly pretty bizarre. I can't come up with a plan. @Secur has some sensible ideas--better than mine because all I have is the desperation for such an idea.

I have considered it keeping the Guantanamo bay facility in mind for long , after the judiciary started freeing terrorists . But when you have an emotional population who wouldn't even take things in the right context , make it religious/racial issue and not even know what you are talking about , what good is it ? Tell me .

 

[Dillinger]

I didn't deny that . I just said that you considered that , even whilst that part of your history . You lost soldiers and a political leader . Even though it will be off topic , isn't it true that the Tamils were considering the ' eelam ' in India and that is why the support was withdrawn , mate ? One can always learn .

You are right , you think that ' putting an end to an ideology ' is easy when it is anything , but such , my friend . I can consider the Philistine option in such case , better than a slow agonizing death . One thinks , at times .

That and the fact that the party in TN at that time wanted to actually secede..today they are openly part of the Indian Union's political setup..we learnt and acted FAST..turning sure disaster into a victory..not a spotless victory though since some of our Indian Tamil brothers ended up suffering due to the games the center played. Even today our relations with SL are SLOWLY Improving..we've already concluded the FTA with them..gotten some big projects..one right next to the port the Chinese are developing. But yes, learning is IMPORTANT..but the lesson must be learnt QUICKLY and acted upon with ALACRITY.

Ideologies are surprisingly fragile brother..contrary to what you believe...they hold power only because they clutch on to a greater power..your only aim should be to sever that connection. If the Saudis could do it in their own land..so can you.

 

[Meengla]

I have considered it keeping the Guantanamo bay facility in mind for long , after the judiciary started freeing terrorists . But when you have an emotional population who wouldn't even take things in the right context , make it religious/racial issue and not even know what you are talking about , what good is it ? Tell me .

I don't have any convincing solution--not even the Concentration Camp option is convincing--it is more of desperate thought--but the best short of some post Nato 2014 withdraw and/or peace with India.

The population in Pakistan is so worn out, so tired that they will probably 'understand' even drastic measures.

Anyway, chin up. The Residency will be rebuilt. The original artifacts are lost forever. But the symbol is going to be restored in its structure at least. The BLA losers just lost millions of soft-corners. I hope they losers are reading these lines. Are you?!

 

[Secur]

Since much of what is happening is Baluchistan these days has a significant Afghan-connection I think it is okay to discuss Afghanistan here. @Secur is absolutely correct about Afghanistan in post #311 above. Afghans are perhaps the biggest losers of all Asian 'nations'. I once heard Harun Amin--the Northern Alliance guy on an American channel shortly after 9/11 gloating about how great Afghanistan was under King Zahir Shah in the 70's; Amin was making fun of Pakistan and roundly condemning Pakistan--of course riding on the American coat-tail like the puppet losers do. Anyway, I dug into the fabulous King's record and found only patchy progress from that 'glorious' period.

I truly feel pity for ordinary Afghanis. And I truly feel pity for these wannabes Afghan leaders. I wish Afghanistan was somewhere in the middle of the Pacific--or Pakistan was!

Mr.Dawood Khan actively ran camps in Afghanistan in support for the couple thousand militants and Iraq used to provide arms to those ' angry ' tribal leaders .

In the face of Daoud's virtual obsession with the Pashtunistan issue, all other foreign policy issues faded in importance. In 1953 and 1954, Daoud applied more of his time-honored techniques to press the Pashunistan issue, such as payments to tribesmen on both sides of the border to subvert the Pakistani government as well as dissemination of hostile propaganda. -CountryStudies

The Afghans have been nothing but trouble since the beginning trying to raise the Pashtunistan issue , refusing to recognize the Internationally recognized border ratified with British just 20 years before the creation of Pakistan , engaging in anti-Pakistan activities , invading into tribal areas and fraternizing with our enemies despite the fact that majority of their supplies came/comes from Pakistan . The Commander of the Faithful made a huge mistake by fighting a war that wasn't anything to Pakistan but a fight between two superpowers , did no good to us , not then and certainly not doing now .

The Afghans do not understand , this war in their country isn't new and I have no hope left for them to work for the country rather than drug dealers / warlords / factions and do something useful , rather than carrying guns proudly . 2014 is closer and we will see the repeat of the Soviet Withdrawal from the country , to hope for anything ' different ' would be being optimistic to the point of stupidity .

Ideologies are surprisingly fragile brother..contrary to what you believe...they hold power only because they clutch on to a greater power..your only aim should be to sever that connection. If the Saudis could do it in their own land..so can you.

Now that Oscar has just told you about the severity and the extent of the whole problem , would it be fair to say that this ideology is not that fragile in this case , even though it can be overcome ?

You mean to say that you would have to manually rewire the thought process and ideology..said ideology being set in stone..of a significant part of your citizenry and that merely changing policies will not automatically ensure such a change in the least bit?What your saying is that this will need a more grass-root level and far FAR more intensive/extensive approach spread over perhaps two decades, yes?

"'Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: 'we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'

'How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.

'You must be,' said the Cat, 'or you wouldn't have come here.'"

Know thy enemy !

 

[Dillinger]

Mr.Dawood Khan actively ran camps in Afghanistan in support for the couple thousand militants and Iraq used to provide arms to those ' angry ' tribal leaders .

In the face of Daoud's virtual obsession with the Pashtunistan issue, all other foreign policy issues faded in importance. In 1953 and 1954, Daoud applied more of his time-honored techniques to press the Pashunistan issue, such as payments to tribesmen on both sides of the border to subvert the Pakistani government as well as dissemination of hostile propaganda. -CountryStudies

The Afghans have been nothing but trouble since the beginning trying to raise the Pashtunistan issue , refusing to recognize the Internationally recognized border ratified with British just 20 years before the creation of Pakistan , engaging in anti-Pakistan activities , invading into tribal areas and fraternizing with our enemies despite the fact that majority of their supplies came/comes from Pakistan . The Commander of the Faithful made a huge mistake by fighting a war that wasn't anything to Pakistan but a fight between two superpowers , did no good to us , not then and certainly not doing now .

The Afghans do not understand , this war in their country isn't new and I have no hope left for them to work for the country rather than drug dealers / warlords / factions and do something useful , rather than carrying guns proudly . 2014 is closer and we will see the repeat of the Soviet Withdrawal from the country , to hope for anything ' different ' would be being optimistic to the point of stupidity .



Now that Oscar has just told you about the severity and the extent of the whole problem , would it be fair to say that this ideology is not that fragile is this case , even though it can be overcome ?




"'Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: 'we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'

'How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.

'You must be,' said the Cat, 'or you wouldn't have come here.'"

Know thy enemy !

You do realize though that this is more a fault of Zia than of any Afghan? The common Afghan..really really wants an end to this mess albeit the war lords love em' selves some chaos.

You guys should have knocked him off the minar-e-pakistan LONG LONG back.

Btw I love the way you quote popular literature to get your point across.

 

[acetophenol]

I couldn't believe it when I read in newspaper this mornimg. My condolences to Pakistan. Terror in every form is cowardice,and this is a whole new level of it.

 

[Secur]

You do realize though that this is more a fault of Zia than of any Afghan? The common Afghan..really really wants an end to this mess albeit the war lords love em' selves some chaos.

You guys should have knocked him off the minar-e-pakistan LONG LONG back.

Btw I love the way you quote popular literature to get your point across.

Mr.Zia-ul-Haq rose to power in in '77 , how exactly is it then , his fault for the troubles Afghans had been fomenting for long ? The worst decision he ever made though , the biggest blunder of the history of Pakistan was when he got the country involved in a fight of two super powers instead of keeping a balanced policy and reaping more benefits , radicalized the society and made sure that he remained in power and control under the guise of Islamic rule and propaganda of ' Red evil Soviets coming to warm waters ' which wasn't true .

That common Afghan has been sleeping for the last 200 years , my friend , when will he wake up then ?

I saw you flabbergasted when Oscar explained the ' reality on ground ' and ' the severity of the problem ' and that quote came in my mind

 

[Dillinger]

Mr.Zia-ul-Haq rose to power in in '77 , how exactly is it then , his fault for the troubles Afghans had been fomenting for long ? The worst decision he ever made though , the biggest blunder of the history of Pakistan was when he got the country involved in a fight of two super powers instead of keeping a balanced policy and reaping more benfits , radicalized the society and made sure that he remained in power and control under the guise of ' Red Soviets coming to warm waters ' which wasn't true .

That common Afghan has been sleeping for the last 200 years , my friend , when will he wake up then ?

I saw you flabbergasted when Oscar explained the ' reality on ground ' and ' the severity of the problem ' and that quote came in my mind

Every other issue that preceded the Afghan jihad was vastly manageable by the fauj. Quite neatly so in fact...since nothing they tried would have changed the fact that Pakistan would have been their only route to the sea..unless obviously they sat in Iran's lap. BUT after the Jihad..whatever Zia had planned turned out to be to the contrary..sure did teach the Afghans a lesson and gobbled up a poisonous ideology in the process that has killed as many Pakistanis in 8 years as it hasn't nearly killed Indians in 20 long years of the LeT's terrorism. I'd pretty much want to skin the dodo alive..whoever brought that upon my head.

Think very hard. The soviets lost because they tried to fight an insurgency and shore up a local government.."nation building" like the Americans. Instead had they wanted an access to warm waters..that would NEVER have been their strategy..they would have opted for a war of decimation..the kind which both them and the yanks used to excel at. Where the kinetic nature of the battle ensures that guerrillas can never seize the initiative. What then do you think would have been the result? I know what would have happened if we were in your place in such a scenario. Hint- did the Vietnamese really win? America never intended to hold Vietnam..America lost men but its skyscrapers kept getting taller..Vietnam went into a 30 year long stone age period. People tend to forget that when America loses in a LIC zone..its home is VERY much in order..the poor saps who "win" get to find solace in freedom- usually under the foot of war-lords, dictators and the likes of Kim sahib.

Lets see what the future brings..hopefully some common sense to the people of the region.

 

[Meengla]

@Secur,
The best work about the Soviet thinking leading up to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan could be found in 'Afghantsy' book (spelling?). I have a Kindle edition of that great book. It is obvious that the Soviets really didn't even want to step into Afghanistan, let alone into the 'warm waters' of the Arabian Sea then.
In the end, it was the Pakistan-India rivalry over Kashmir, the insecurities of General Zia, the utter primitiveness of the Afghans, and the Great Power game which led to the disasters for decades.

 

[flameboard]

BLA needs to be taken down now more than ever. I'm sure this has deeply disturbed any patriotic Pakistan. The government HAS to destroy these guys and get whoever did this otherwise this is not going to end.

The government is going to loose support fast if it doesn't act on this right away.

 

[Markus]

Huh?

Would you mind backing that up with any evidence?


Much obliged.

Look, we are not kids and there is no point in being ignorant about it.

India's retaliation in Balochsitan is well known which should be seen as a revenge for Pakistan's support for Khalistani and Kashmiri terrorists.

 

[Dillinger]

Look, we are not kids and there is no point in being ignorant about it.

India's retaliation in Balochsitan is well known which should be seen as a revenge for Pakistan's support for Khalistani and Kashmiri terrorists.

Maybe we're just teaching them how to make bhel puri and how to run a bureaucracy if they ever win?