BLA terrorists bomb Jinnah's Ziarat residency museum.

[Secur]

Locations and ethnicity aside..concentration camps are REALLY not the way to go. At that scale it is ALWAYS impossible to stop excesses from occurring. You may say that the TTP and the other Talibanis will cause as much carnage as any such move BUT it is never good for the state to lose sight and go apeshit insane on its own people.

There are people like this who cant take that ' lens off ' because that is the only thing , they are proud of in their life . A sense of achievement of some sort .

Restriction of certain judicial processes for the suspected militants and the ones who are proven as such is the need of hour , Dillinger , you have no idea how many terrorist scumbags were released by the same courts who are required to uphold the law and not always work on the ' doctrine of necessity ' . Imagine what it does to the morale of people who worked hard to catch them and produce evidence . Imagine what it does to the soldiers/people fighting with these terrorists . Imagine how much it hurts our efforts against those . The militants/suspected militants captured by the forces are in thousands , this isn't the concentration camp your mind is going towards , right now .

I understand the reservations and the shortcomings of the plan , but the thing is that its better to do this instead of getting other 50,000 Pakistanis killed , all for the greater good . Better to ' suspend certain judicial processes ' and ' restrict some freedom for the time being ' than risk the life of the citizens of this country who are getting killed and injured daily .

 

[ZYXW]

ZY...serious thread haI!

Oops sorry then I should have commented as follows...

lol

 

[muse]

Just think things through - cuz there's nothing worse than changing your mind once things are up and running -- Every Talib Dead, every Separatist, dead, Every Bribe taker, dead, every bribe giver, dead, every radical Mullah, dead ----- That's a lot of dead, I'm more than OK with it, but you have to know that there can be no turning back, that you will be changed till your last breath - and so will Pakistan - to my thinking it will be for the best - because this is not a country now, it's a jungle, and order must be imposed on the savages.

 

[Meengla]

@muse,
Had the thread been about no so serious of a matter I would have LOL about 'freedom villages'. Indeed, after Taseer was killed, someone (who was immediately accused of a 'liberal fascist'!) on Express Tribune suggested creating secured places for the peaceful people along the Sindh/Baluchistan coast! The poor guy mentioned something like this: We, with out intellect, will make use of the sea. We will sustain ourselves. We will not even ask for electricity. All we would ask for is to be left alone!

But if you were suggesting that cell-phone tracking could be used as a tool to tackle the existing problems then, I am sure, you know that is not at all feasible.
@Secur,
I think the CJP stands as a criminal in my books for not taking a suo-moto action against the lawyer who defied the law in broad-day light and showered Qadri with rose petals. Given the anti-PPP history of this bigoted judiciary I charge them of at least partial justice. I hope they prove me wrong in future--for Pakistan's sake!

 

[Secur]

What is always interesting to me about our Taliban brigade is that they wish to present themselves as among those who value human rights and freedom of speech (spread propaganda) go to an Islamist site and see how much freedom of speech they will allow you, go and see what they think of your "human rights" -=- yet there are those among us who wish to rehabilitate these - see, do you really imagine you can change their way of thinking which they think is their very conscience, created by the word of God, isn't that a tad arrogant??

The real problem starts when they talk of the same freedom of speech and not know its meanings , that the freedom is for all speeches and not only for the preferred ones . Been there , done that . The human rights and these freedoms must only be upheld by the Western countries for them , that is something not acceptable in their Muslim ones and certainly not in the utopian society governed under the laws of the game , they dream of ! So , well when there's a ban on burqa , they go all haywire but of course the Kingdom can for all intents and purposes ban the driving so the women cant go anywhere and even text their fathers/brothers/husbands where are they checking in and where do they intend to go , for heaven's sake , no one , I say no one will raise a single voice against that .

Therein lies their freedom , Mr Bond .

 

[muse]

@muse,

But if you were suggesting that cell-phone tracking could be used as a tool to tackle the existing problems then, I am sure, you know that is not at all feasible.

I KNOW it's possible and many more uses of cell phones than you are at present perhaps not aware of

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Go re read the post , try to tell me any similarity with what ' hitler ' did besides the name of ' concentration camps ' .

No one's asking to kill people en masse here . Try not to comment on things , you do not understand .

O.k lets discuss meengla and your idea with cool head....lets say we start from mehsuds....we know that every mehsud family is connected one way or another to taliban...so you have to move the whole population of mehsuds i.e 0.4 million, kids also because you have to move them along with their parents...
Now here is interesting part, you perhaps will not have single interaction with wazir and mehsuds...but when you talk with them on islam, every one of them would seem taliban to you.....when you screened them, you will find bulk of their adult males and females and young boys as suspected taliban....lets say we only kill adult male mehsuds in gas chambers and allow their females and young ones to return to their places.....the young boys that you spared would grow up with only one task in their life....revenge from you!

 

[VelocuR]

The video I just posted above has some answers from the IGP of Baluchistan.

BTW, excellent video! Gives me hope that with so many dedicated, sincere, AND smart people like these Pakistan will be all right.

Well, all these great talks and debates doesn't solve Pakistan's many problems, nothing helpful in my opinion. Same repeated talks without act and doesn't prepare well in ahead of times.

 

[muse]

The real problem starts when they talk of the same freedom of speech and not know its meanings , that the freedom is for all speeches and not only for the preferred ones . Been there , done that . The human rights and these freedoms must only be upheld by the Western countries for them , that is something not acceptable in their Muslim ones and certainly not in the utopian society governed under the laws of the game , they dream of ! So , well when there's a ban on burqa , they go all haywire but of course the Kingdom can for all intents and purposes ban the driving so the women cant go anywhere and even text their fathers/brothers/husbands where are they checking in and where do they intend to go , for heaven's sake .

Therein lies their freedom , Mr Bond .

I'm glad you mentioned their valhalla, their kingdom - much freedom and and many "Rights" there -- but it also tells you a great deal about their psychology - they like to have their "limits/Hadd" clearly delineated - some amongst us are convinced that we can be more influential than their Mullahs and sheiks.

 

[Dillinger]

There are people like this who cant take that ' lens off ' because that is the only thing , they are proud of in their life . A sense of achievement of some sort .

Restriction of certain judicial processes for the suspected militants and the ones who are proven as such is the need of hour , Dillinger , you have no idea how many terrorist scumbags were released by the same courts who are required to uphold the law and not always work on the ' doctrine of necessity ' . Imagine what it does to the morale of people who worked hard to catch them and produce evidence . Imagine what it does to the soldiers/people fighting with these terrorists . Imagine how much it hurts our efforts against those . The militants/suspected militants captured by the forces are in thousands , this isn't the concentration camp your mind is going towards , right now .

I understand the reservations and the shortcomings of the plan , but the thing is that its better to do this instead of getting other 50,000 Pakistanis killed , all for the greater good . Better to ' suspend certain judicial processes ' and ' restrict some freedom for the time being ' than risk the life of the citizens of this country who are getting killed and injured daily .

Yaara..Just one question..what do you think will happen when you start these camps..will you be able to manage them..10 to 1 odds are that groups like LeJ will clap with glee..more recruits for them. The myth that people like Zarvan propagate will become true. The taliban will melt into the scenery like they always do or hop the border...hell even military combing ops only catch them when they decide to entrench themselves..but despite taking casualties and hepters and vipers in the sky they melt away..this is too large a net..too large and with too may gaps to catch such insurgents.

There is one way yaara..the groups which are targeting you have ONE weapon..ONE single weapon..the sure knowledge that for various reasons the powers that be in Pakistan, whether that be Nawaz or the GHQ, cannot disown every single such outfit..they will always keep one or two for their own purposes. They know this and they know that while the targets of these groups may be different their shared and common ideology will ensure the survival of their cause even IF one particular group is wiped out in its entirety. Take away this singular and sordid pillar and they will collapse..it is not courage which makes them fight your soldiers..it is brain washing..a man who loves no life is not fighting with courage..courage is born from having first known fear..you brain wash a fellow to believe that this life isn't real anyway and jannat awaits then he will fight without need of courage but rather be sustained by that ideology. Break that ideology though and they will collapse like a deck of cards in front of a strong gust.

 

[Secur]

O.k lets discuss meengla and your idea with cool head

How would each and every ' Mehsud ' family be connected to Taliban in the first place ?

What do you understand by the term ' suspected militants ' ? The people who have been involved either in suspicious activities , have been providing refuge and assistance to the militants and were/have been in contact with them and those reported by the militants under custody . Use every single goddamn technology we have available , monitor the telecommunications sources , use the cameras , the NADRA database , the governmental records , the satellites , the UAV's and the HUMINT , every single thing to get to such people . When apprehended , interrogate them , probe them and make sure to every possible extent that they indeed are militants and if they found guilty , the world shouldn't know that they existed in the first place , leave alone the courts here . FYI , torture isn't really a way of interrogation and is rarely effective if the next thing you are planning to ask me is that .

Now for the interactions part , maybe I have , maybe I haven't , I do not confirm the ethnicity/race/tribe of the people I meet in my life , I am no expert in recognizing and distinguishing from others . But the thing to note here is that ' radicalized thought here isn't the problem , the behavior is ' . Otherwise , there are enough people in my vicinity who can be apprehended because of extremist views on the religion .

 

[Yeti]

Crocodile tears, nothing else. Why don't you Indians stay out of threads like these?

Do you know me fool? do not judge me then idiot! we respect jinnah also

many people are not even aware his grandfather was a hindu guy and he was also a gujarati

 

[Secur]

@Secur,
I think the CJP stands as a criminal in my books for not taking a suo-moto action against the lawyer who defied the law in broad-day light and showered Qadri with rose petals. Given the anti-PPP history of this bigoted judiciary I charge them of at least partial justice. I hope they prove me wrong in future--for Pakistan's sake!

Course he does ! He wasn't loyal to the state neither to his oath nor to the constitution he was sworn in to protect .

If he wanted , he could have this all ' circus going in the state ' shut down in one moment , used the facial recolonization to disbar and revoke their licenses and then punish them according to the law . The judiciary isn't what you think it is , it seldom challenges the Govt and when it does , most of the time it is payed for and supported by other parties .

 

[Meengla]

@Pak-one,
The idea of 'concentration camps' is admittedly pretty bizarre. I can't come up with a plan. @Secur has some sensible ideas--better than mine because all I have is the desperation for such an idea.
I'd say this though: MQM started getting violent ONLY as a reaction to the Afghan refugees flooding Karachi and bringing drugs and weapons to Karachi in the 80's. It is not in the culture of Karachiites to carry weapons. However, wasn't even in the 70's that those tribals (and their like-minded brothers in the Frontier) made movies like 'Topak Zaman Qanoon' (Gun is my law)? Even in its most sinister form MQM is far better than the tribals: The tribal militants as well as MQM would collect 'Bhatta' but only the tribals would force people to also start growing beards, wear clothes in a certain way...

Your attempt to equate an urban fascist org like MQM with the militants from the tribals is not very convincing.

And, yes, the Mehsuds or the Afridis can be disarmed with some effort--their gun-love notwithstanding.

 

[muse]

But the thing to note here is that ' radicalized thought here isn't the problem , the behavior is ' . Otherwise , there are enough people in my vicinity who can be apprehended because of extremist views on the religion .

Behavior arises from thought - Don't please ever be confused by this -- You must first have the thought, then the behavior based on that thought