BLA terrorists bomb Jinnah's Ziarat residency museum.

[ExtraOdinary]

They should start rebuilding it. It's a piece of national heritage. Looks beautiful in the pics.

 

[Secur]

Every other issue that preceded the Afghan jihad was vastly manageable by the fauj. Quite neatly so in fact...since nothing they tried would have changed the fact that Pakistan would have been their only route to the sea..unless obviously they sat in Iran's lap. BUT after the Jihad..whatever Zia had planned turned out to be to the contrary..sure did teach the Afghans a lesson and gobbled up a poisonous ideology in the process that has killed as many Pakistanis in 8 years as it hasn't nearly killed Indians in 20 long years of the LeT's struggle. I'd pretty much want to skin the dodo alive..whoever brought that upon my head.

Think very hard. The soviets lost because they tried to fight an insurgency and shore up a local government.."nation building" like the Americans. Instead had they wanted an access to warm waters..that would NEVER have been their strategy..they would have opted for a war of decimation..the kind which both them and the yanks used to excel at. Where the kinetic nature of the battle ensures that guerrillas can never seize the initiative. What then do you think would have been the result. I know what would have happened if we were in you place in such a scenario. Hint- did the Vietnamese really win? America never intended to hold Vietnam..America lost men but its skyscrapers kept getting taller..Vietnam went into a 30 year long stone age period. People tend to forget that when America loses a LIC zone..its home is VERY much in order..the poor saps who "win" get to find solace in freedom- usually under the foot of war-lords, dictators and the likes of Kim sahib.

Lets see what the future brings..hopefully some common sense to the people of the region.

True . The Afghans hadn't been a serious threat , ever . Infact , the invasion of Bajaur by the Afghans was dealt by the tribals of the area , not the army . The airforce was later called in though , for a warning for later . Common sense of course dictates that the Afghans should have realized this fact that their only natural and economical way to the sea went through the other side of the Khyber Pass and made sure they didn't earn its animosity being too dependent on Islamabad but did they ? . The Iran thing is very different if you know about the ' Arab-Persian ' rivalry , my friend , my countrymen are too emotional to the point of they become ' more Arab than the Arabs themselves ' and not even realize it . That is what I had said in my earlier posts regarding Afghanistan , they had been nothing but a ' little nuisance ' but nothing that was ever getting out of control . I wasn't trying to explain the Commander of the Faithfuls blunder in terms of Afghans past behavior , no , that he did to get out of International isolation which he faced after the coup detat , to get the American support for his own rule by using and exploiting both the racial ( Pashtun ) and religion ( Islam ) card to manipulated the population into thinking that somehow we must help our Afghan brother who ironically never had been one and its our war , not of the two superpowers . The Afghans were nobody back then , nothing to boast of even then , they are nothing now . A sarcastic phrase in Urdu says that ' When one crosses to the other side of the Khyber Pass , one gets a century behind ' . He should have realized the dangers of radicalizing a whole nation , Dillinger , they have the thread with the pictures of Pakistani society in the 50's and 60's , check it out when you have time . You would again be surprised , truth is indeed stranger than fiction .

I know why they lost , the Soviets in Moscow said before the first Red soldier entered that country that our ' comrades-in Kabul want us to fix everything and hope to rule that country with our help ' . It was obvious that like the entire history of Afghanistan , a major portion of the people wasn't content with communist rule much as it has been with nothing throughout the time . The question , my dear friend , is why then the USSR even tried to intervene in such circumstances when the Govt in Kabul was losing control rapidly and senior Soviet commanders had warned about the danger of ' trying to fix ' such a broken toy to the point that they said ' not even all the king's horses and all the king's men can do it ' . There was no opportunity , nothing to be gained by such an ill advised adventure when the Americans were getting ahead in everything in the 80's . The Soviets never took any lesson from the history of Afghanistan . Dillinger , what we learn from history is that we do not learn from history . The myth of this ' access to warm waters ' was busted a long time ago , it was nothing that suddenly crossed the minds of some , after the war was over . No , sir . The Soviets never wanted such access nor they could afford another war with Pakistan if it didn't agree for the access knowing the ' prevailing situation ' back then . I know what Americans and Soviets could have done with Afghanistan , had they wanted to take some sort of revenge both had something in common , both wanted a friendly Govt in Kabul to ensure their interests . The asymmetrical warfare has it advantages and it has favored the guerrillas always . I know the result though seeing what is that country today , I think , it couldn't have been worse in any way . Did USSR break up because of the intervention in Afghanistan ? No , sir . The Vietnamese win would be as hollow as Nasser claiming to win over the coalition of France , Britain and Israel during the Suez Canal conflict or the Afghanistan being the ' graveyard ' of empires . What do the Americans have to lose here , now ? Anything ? The Americans have lost , they are going back ? Ok , kiddo . They are going back and they will return to their mainland and nobody can touch them there whilst your friend Taliban would blow themselves on a road killing some children and Afghan police or army which in case of today , is most of the time injuring and killing a single coalition soldier . I see no reason for this ' false pride ' of defeating superpowers when all they did was come here , try to manage the country and when they saw your ruthless and savage nature and determined that you will not mend your ways , returned to their homeland whilst you got only love for guns and drugs without any improvement in your ' quality of life ' and anything such as ' economic progression ' and this false sense of achievement . I laugh .

I hope for the best , even though at the moment ' Nero is fiddling while Rome burns ' .

@Secur,
The best work about the Soviet thinking leading up to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan could be found in 'Afghantsy' book (spelling?). I have a Kindle edition of that great book. It is obvious that the Soviets really didn't even want to step into Afghanistan, let alone into the 'warm waters' of the Arabian Sea then.
In the end, it was the Pakistan-India rivalry over Kashmir, the insecurities of General Zia, the utter primitiveness of the Afghans, and the Great Power game which led to the disasters for decades.

My friend , you are late .

I already wrote a bit about that in my last post

 

[Dillinger]

True . The Afghans hadn't been a serious threat , ever . Infact , the invasion of Bajaur by the Afghans was dealt by the tribals of the area , not the army . The airforce was later called in though , for a warning . Common sense of course dictates that the Afghans should have realized this fact that their only natural and economical way to the sea went through the other side of the Khyber Pass and made sure they didn't earn its animosity being too dependent on Islamabad but did they ? . The Iran thing is very different if you know about the ' Arab-Persian ' rivalry , my friend , my countrymen are too emotional to the point of they become ' more Arab than the Arabs themselves ' and not even realize it . That is what I had said in my earlier posts regarding Afghanistan , they had been nothing but a ' little nuisance ' but nothing that was ever getting out of control . I wasn't trying to explain the Commander of the Faithfuls blunder in terms of Afghans past behavior , no , that he did to get out of International isolation which he faced after the coup detat , to get the American support for his own rule by using and exploiting both the racial ( Pashtun ) and religion ( Islam ) card to manipulated the population into thinking that somehow we must help our Afghan brother who ironically never had been one and its our war , not of the two superpowers . The Afghans were nobody back then , nothing to boast of even then , they are nothing now . A sarcastic phrase in Urdu says that ' When one crosses to the other side of the Khyber Pass , one gets a century behind ' . He should have realized the dangers of radicalizing a whole nation , Dillinger , they have the thread with the pictures of Pakistani society in the 50's and 60's , check it out when you have time . You would again be surprised , truth is indeed stranger than fiction .

I know why they lost , the Soviets in Moscow said before the first Red soldier entered that country that our ' comrades-in Kabul want us to fix everything and hope to rule that country with our help ' . It was obvious that like the entire history of Afghanistan , a major portion of the people wasn't content with communist rule much as it has been with nothing throughout the time . The question , my dear friend , is why then the USSR even tried to intervene in such circumstances when the Govt in Kabul was losing control rapidly and senior Soviet commanders had warned about the danger of ' trying to fix ' such a broken toy to the point that they said ' not even all the king's horses and all the king's men cant do it ' . There was no opportunity , nothing to be gained by such an ill advised adventure when the Americans were getting ahead in everything in the 80's . The Soviets never took any lesson from the history of Afghanistan . Dillinger , what we learn from history is that we do not learn from history . The myth of this ' access to warm waters ' was busted a long time ago , it was nothing that suddenly crossed the minds of some , after the war was over . No , sir . The Soviets never wanted such access nor they could afford another war with Pakistan if it didn't agree for the access knowing the ' prevailing situation ' back then . I know what Americans and Soviets could have done with Afghanistan , had they wanted to take some sort of revenge both had something in common , both wanted a friendly Govt in Kabul to ensure their interests . The asymmetrical warfare has it advantages and it has favored the guerrillas always . I know the result though seeing what is that country today , I think , it couldn't have been worse in any way . Did USSR break up because of the intervention in Afghanistan ? No , sir . The Vietnamese win would be as hollow as Nasser claiming to win over the coalition of France , Britain and Israel during the Suez Canal conflict or the Afghanistan being the ' graveyard ' of empires . What do the Americans have to lose here , now ? Anything ? The Americans have lost , they are going back ? Ok , kiddo . They are going back and they will return to their mainland and nobody can touch them there whilst your friend Taliban would blow themselves on a road killing some children and Afghan police or army which in case of today , is most of the time injuring and killing a single coalition soldier . I see no reason for this ' false pride ' of defeating superpowers when all they did was come here , try to manage the country and when they saw your ruthless and savage nature and determined that you will not mend your ways , returned to their homeland whilst you got only love for guns and drugs without any improvement in your ' quality of life ' and anything such as ' economic progression ' and this false sense of achievement . I laugh .

I hope for the best , even though at the moment ' Nero is fiddling while Rome burns ' .



My friend , you are late .

I already wrote a bit about that in my last post

That's the point ain't it. Your tribals used to bat them aside..now..IF Hype were to be believed- these same tribals are nurturing some serious acrimony towards your state. NOT cool. Hell Pakistan would have been better served if you'd let the Soviets do their thing..Af's govt would have still fallen..maybe just a decade later. Other than that everyone else but my nation is welcome to be the graveyard of empires..the key part here being the ******** "graveyard". No, thank you!

Oh I have no doubt that Zia decided to buy American brownies by serving you people up. Thank goodness we had the good sense of NAM..otherwise contrary to popular belief..blood runs true..and we are MORE than capable of making the same mistakes..probably even worse ones. I hope you realize though..Butt sahib already talks of how your markets have been taken over by a certain someone...there are many ways to skin a cat.

As I said lets hope good sense will prevail all around.

 

[Secur]

That's the point ain't it. Your tribals used to bat them aside..now..IF Hype were to be believed- these same tribals are nurturing some serious acrimony towards your state. NOT cool. Hell Pakistan would have been better served if you'd let the Soviets do their thing..Af's govt would have still fallen..maybe just a decade later. Other than that everyone else but my nation is welcome to be the graveyard of empires..the key part here being the ******** "graveyard". No, thank you!

Oh I have no doubt that Zia decided to buy American brownies by serving you people up. Thank goodness we had the good sense of NAM..otherwise contrary to popular belief..blood runs true..and we are MORE than capable of making the same mistakes..probably even worse ones. I hope you realize though..Butt sahib already talks of how your markets have been taken over by a certain someone...there are many ways to skin a cat.

As I said lets hope good sense will prevail all around.

Indeed , yes . They were never a problem , never , imagine if some tribes were repulsing the attacks from their army , what sort of picture it presents ? Not every tribe , even most of them are fed up of this Taliban psychopathic law . They form militias and fight alongside the army but there are some , who are not quite content with army's presence . Yeah , well now looking at it , yes it seems . The Govt in Afghanistan was going , it was just a matter of when and not if . Look at Moscow , Washington and London and then compare it with present day Kabul . The Afghanistan is the same as Alexander would have seen it minus the Bagram AFB of course . Here , little kid tell me how ' wealth is no accomplishment which is why pious Afghans never opted for it ' and I ask what about ' the economic progression ' and ' improvement in living standards of the nations and I hear nothing but silence . They can keep the myth of ' graveyards ' with themselves .

Power corrupts . American support meant a lot for him , getting rid of International isolation he faced after the the coup plus the continued support for his rule by Arabs , Americans and Islamist . Overnight ( not literally ) , the Pakistani society was radicalized by the ' imported and improvised ' interpretation of the religion . Non Alliance Movement ? I have always thought that he should have taken no sides in wizard's war ( super powers ) because the victory is not for the goblins ( third world countries ) in the end . You realized that but we weren't that lucky , a cause of a lot of problem in Pakistan can be traced to that ill advised relations with U.S. . Remind me , what does @Armstrong talk of ?

Hope is eternal , they say ?

 

[Dillinger]

Indeed , yes . They were never a problem , never , imagine if some tribes were repulsing the attacks from their army , what sort of picture it presents ? Not every tribe , even most of them are fed up of this Taliban psychopathic law . They form militias and fight alongside the army but there are some , who are not quite content with army's presence . Yeah , well now looking at it , yes it seems . The Govt in Afghanistan was going , it was just a matter of when and not if . Look at Moscow , Washington and London and then compare it with present day Kabul . The Afghanistan is the same as Alexander would have seen it minus the Bagram AFB of course . Here , little kid tell me how ' wealth is no accomplishment which is why pious Afghans never opted for it ' and I ask what about ' the economic progression ' and ' improvement in living standards of the nations and I hear nothing but silence . They can keep the myth of ' graveyards ' with themselves .

Power corrupts . American support meant a lot for him , getting rid of International isolation he faced after the the coup plus the continued support for his rule by Arabs , Americans and Islamist . Overnight ( not literally ) , the Pakistani society was radicalized by the ' imported and improvised ' interpretation of the religion . Non Alliance Movement ? I have always thought that he should have taken no sides in wizard's war ( super powers ) because the victory is not for the goblins ( third world countries ) in the end . You realized that but we weren't that lucky , a cause of a lot of problem in Pakistan can be traced to that ill advised relations with U.S. . Remind me , what does @Armstrong talk of ?

Hope is eternal , they say ?

Something about how we can't do anything worse to your markets than what the Chinese already have..its always the friends who get to see your back the most often..better to have no friends..something that the common awam never understand. Poor Zafar Hilaly has been screaming about similar things wrt US and China both (did you see his bit on the foreign policy show where every party rep was present with the slight exception of Imran Khan who represented the PTI directly?)..not that I like the guy..seems to really dislike us folks.

Actually I have seen pics of Karachi in the 60s..I believe in a Dawn article..looked just like the hipster Bombay man..just with a lot more foreigners.

 

[Zarvan]

Pardon me if I misunderstood you here. Are you saying that Musharraf's Lal Masjid Operation was state terrorism? If so then you are, in my books, an obvious terrorist sympathizer!

I'd like for someone to start a poll where Pakistanis-only vote--with identities of voters obvious--about the Lal Masjid Operation with some simple questions. Then we will know who stands where!

I, for one, here say loud and clear that the Lal Masjid occupiers were deranged, violent, medieval thugs and Musharraf did the right thing going after that.

yes it was state terrorism which was done in tribal areas and in lal masjid on USA orders and our people are paying the price until and unless state keeps doing there would be no peace instead things will get words

 

[Secur]

Something about how we can't do anything worse to your markets than what the Chinese already have..its always the friends who get to see your back the most often..better to have no friends..something that the common awam never understand. Poor Zafar Hilaly has been screaming about similar things wrt US and China both (did you see his bit on the foreign policy show where every party rep was present with the slight exception of Imran Khan who represented the PTI directly?)..not that I like the guy..seems to really dislike us folks.

Actually I have seen pics of Karachi in the 60s..I believe in a Dawn article..looked just like the hipster Bombay man..just with a lot more foreigners.

Oh , that . Yes and who understands it better than ones in the business like him ? You always have to keep some friends and a single enemy in the very least , Dillinger . No , I do not expect them to . We have more serious problems than that and they are indifferent to even that , forget the ' taking over ' which has been going over from a long time ago . I see no problems in trade with India , after all its all ' good business ' . I sure have heard the name though I haven't heard his views on that particular topic though I know a little bit about it . I do not watch T.V. that often and with regularity . Maybe , he's an ultra nationalist if he's pointing towards both China and U.S on that particular thing , which is not false .

 

[Awesome]

I am deeply saddened by this loss to our nation. This act must not go unpunished.

 

[Dillinger]

Oh , that . Yes and who understands it better than ones in the business like him ? You always have to keep some friends and a single enemy in the very least , Dillinger . No , I do not expect them to . We have more serious problems than that and they are indifferent to even that , forget the ' taking over ' which has been going over from a long time ago . I see no problems in trade with India , after all its all ' good business ' . I sure have heard the name though I haven't heard his views on that particular topic though I know a little bit about it . I do not watch T.V. that often and with regularity . Maybe , he's an ultra nationalist if he's pointing towards both China and U.S on that particular thing , which is not false .

Dunno about his political bent. Refreshing despite the obvious acrimony though..or maybe Arnab Goswami's constant badgering got to him.

My friend..this is the age of economies..trust me when the dust settles and it will..eventually..you may not like what you see. But exigent circumstances do drive one towards desperate measures.

 

[Secur]

My friend..this is the age of economies..trust me when the dust settles and it will..eventually..you may not like what you see. But exigent circumstances do drive one towards desperate measures.

I know , I know . I am not liking what am I seeing at the moment .

It does , history proves that .

 

[Zarvan]

I am deeply saddened by this loss to our nation. This act must not go unpunished.

simply rebuilt it and protect it and good thing is all people of ziyarat were protesting against this attack

 

[iPhone]

I'm really perplexed at the timing of this attack. I can't understand why after all these years the BLA chose to attack the reisdency now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hinting at a conspiracy theory. I'm 100 percent sure it was the BLA as they have shamelessly admitted.

But I'm just taken by the timing of it. Why now? Why not four or five years ago or during PPP's govt? They were just as anti Pakistan as they are now, Quaid's residency museum had just as little security as it did now. They could have done it any time before but they didn't. Now right after the election when the province gets its rightful political mandate in the govt, they go ahead and do this.

Is it to undermine the new govt? A message perhaps to pmln that no matter how much you try to bring blochistan in the political set up, we are not interested? I just can't fully comprehend it.

 

[Jango]

Is it now?

Well, last time I went there, a few months ago it was there!

Will check again in a week!!!

@nuclearpak

jab me tum se bol raha k ban @unitedstatesofislam and @ghilzai to us waqt tum ne meri post he delete ker de thi

do you have any biasness towards me or what?

please think with your open mind who is trolling and who isnt, its not just about who is reporting and act accordingly?

I deleted quite a few posts of alot of members, not only yours.

 

[BATMAN]

what does president of Pakistan got to say?

 

[ice_man]

I am deeply saddened by this loss to our nation. This act must not go unpunished.

IT WILL THIS NATION HAS A VERY SHORT MEMORY! they forget everything!

but clearly BLA & LeJ must be totally destroyed! but it woul be better if CM balochistan orders that and not the Government in federal