Bangladesh Navy

[The Ronin]

খুব সম্ভবত এগুলোই আমাদের আপকামিং Type-053H3 গাইডেড মিসাইল ফ্রিগেট
প্যানেন্ট নাম্বার ৫২১ এবং ৫২২

এগুলো বর্তমানে রিফিট ও আপগ্রেড করা হচ্ছে যা ২০১৯ সালে দেশে আসবে।

DTB

 

[Bilal9]

@Bilal9 what were the unit cost for the frigates? Could they be fitted with aster-15 instead of "Denel Umkhonto-IR"
Also, isn't the design a bit too old?

EDIT: the one algeria ordered (based on improved south african version) is a new stealthy design.

For the Meko-200SAN type Valour class (South Africa) the cost was South African Rand 9.65 billion (800 million and change in us dollars). These were not cheap as they were made in Germany at Blohm + Voss shipyards in Hamburg and Kiel. Plus they were specified to be very heavily armed (#of VLS Units). The derivative El Radii class by Algeria was even more heavily armed and may have cost even more. They had projected four units but ended up with only two.

We can get ToT to build most of these locally which will bring the cost down significantly (maybe even under 500 million). Right now I think our budget is around $350 to $400 million a copy? @Khan saheb you can correct me if I'm off base. And where is @Damien de Horn bhai? Haven't seen our navy enthusiast in ages.

Arming with Aster-15 (or equivalents) is always a viable option. Umkhonto was a South African solution by Denel as you all know.

Some would say we are daydreaming but you have to compare with the best of the best to come up with a stopgap solution. We have to know how to get the best bang for our buck.

 

[Tanveer666]

can you give a source for that $800 million figure? and is it $800 million per frigate?

 

[Michael Corleone]

How is it that BAF managed to procure the Mig-29's when the country was practically on the brink of bankruptcy (due to insufficient amount of foreign reserves and such) then?

Because it was paid for before BNP came up, cancelled the deal... took half the money back from cancelling the deal and then proceeded to trying to sell the migs.... I hate BNP for what they did. When I was a kid I used to think Khaleda is a nice lady, didn’t know Hasina existed until the grenade blasts up my *** that day. Whole of Dhaka was empty I swear it was fun but scary at the sameness time

 

[Tanveer666]

Because it was paid for before BNP came up, cancelled the deal... took half the money back from cancelling the deal and then proceeded to trying to sell the migs.... I hate BNP for what they did. When I was a kid I used to think Khaleda is a nice lady, didn’t know Hasina existed until the grenade blasts up my *** that day. Whole of Dhaka was empty I swear it was fun but scary at the sameness time

No, actually reading up on the deal, we actually payed back the russians over a span of 9 years. Of the $124 million, 30% was payed up front and the rest were paid in installments.

And the reason khaleda wanted to sell them because the 8 migs required around $10 million per year ( the mig-29 themselves cost around 12 million per unit) to maintain, which exceeded the budget allocated for maintenance, and since they were relatively new, we could sell them at a decent price.

EDIT: also i think we are getting out of topic

 

[UKBengali]

Guys, Meko is weak in air-defence.
Algerian one has 32 IR SAMs with very short-range.
Other versions do come with 8 VLS tubes where you can potentially put in 32 ESRAAM with 50km+ range which is much better but far inferior to Chinese options still.

Chinese Type-54B is likely to come with 32 VLS cells as per Type-52D/55 and these will be universal with the capability to house 200km HQ-9X in each cell, quad-pack the 70km range HQ-16X and also fit in ASROC or SSMs in these cells as well. The price also comes in at the 350-400 million US dollar range and this ship will give by far the most firepower for the money

 

[Arthur]

Right now I think our budget is around $350 to $400 million a copy?

Yes, you are correct on the price tag, bro.
On the matter of western option, as much as I am in love with western sensors & weaponry, I would really love to see MEKOS built in BD.

But the crucial question is-

Does EU has the need to make a strategic commitment in BD?
Are they ready to support us in all & everything?

More importantly -
Are Bangladesh ready to /wants to align with EU strategically? & so deeply?
(or can we really trust them so much?)

 

[Bilal9]

Yes, you are correct bro.
On the matter of western option, as much as I am in love with western sensors & weaponry, I would really love to see MEKOS built in BD.

But the crucial question is is EU has the need to make a strategic commitment in BD? Are they ready to support us in all & everything? (or can we really trust them sk much?)

More importantly -
Are Bangladesh ready to /wants to align with EU strategically? & so deeply?

Well we have followed EU laws and regulations more than willingly and to a 'T'. If the EU can trust any developing country, it should be us. We have many, many strategic relationships in the top tier of EU leadership, especially in Scandinavian countries.

can you give a source for that $800 million figure? and is it $800 million per frigate?

800 million is with ALL sensors and munitions.

Wiki itself has unit cost,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valour-class_frigate

 

[Arthur]

The Italians seems to be busy like a bee behind the scene these days. Leonardo, Fincantieri, MBDA, Alenia Aermacci bosses are paying regular visits on 'professional matters '.

We should really try to use this opportunity to kick start a program to gain, learn & acquire new technology.

How much chance of a Italian version of FREMM?

But whether new ships are from EU or not, majority of the sensors & electronics would be from EU. That much is guaranteed by this point.

 

[Tanveer666]

800 million is with ALL sensors and munitions.

Wiki itself has unit cost,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valour-class_frigate

800 million for all 4? thats actually rather cheap, although, if we were to add aster 15mod, the price would skyrocket.

However, i am curious to know, how would local manufacturing reduce the price by around 40%?

Guys, Meko is weak in air-defence.
Algerian one has 32 IR SAMs with very short-range.
Other versions do come with 8 VLS tubes where you can potentially put in 32 ESRAAM with 50km+ range which is much better but far inferior to Chinese options still.

Chinese Type-54B is likely to come with 32 VLS cells as per Type-52D/55 and these will be universal with the capability to house 200km HQ-9X in each cell, quad-pack the 70km range HQ-16X and also fit in ASROC or SSMs in these cells as well. The price also comes in at the 350-400 million US dollar range and this ship will give by far the most firepower for the money

Are you sure the chinese would sell us their state of the art frigate to us? They seem to be more curious to sell us some other export model

 

[Bilal9]

Guys, Meko is weak in air-defence.
Algerian one has 32 IR SAMs with very short-range.
Other versions do come with 8 VLS tubes where you can potentially put in 32 ESRAAM with 50km+ range which is much better but far inferior to Chinese options still.

Chinese Type-54B is likely to come with 32 VLS cells as per Type-52D/55 and these will be universal with the capability to house 200km HQ-9X in each cell, quad-pack the 70km range HQ-16X and also fit in ASROC or SSMs in these cells as well. The price also comes in at the 350-400 million US dollar range and this ship will give by far the most firepower for the money

@UKBengali bhai I fully agree with you that Chinese Type-54B will offer the best bang for the buck but my question was concerns a different area.

Meko 200 have matured in design quite a lot - if you observe the 80's ANZAC class (Australia) with the latest Valour (South Africa) and El Radii (Algeria) classes.

Obviously we will not build the Chinese Type-54B design in vanilla fashion and will customize it quite a bit (like our C13B's). So studying the features of this latest Meko 200 class as well as FREMM designs will help clarify what features (stealthwise and designwise) our new frigates built locally may have.

I'm probably going on a limb thinking me (or anyone else on this forum for that matter) has any say-so on our indigenous frigate design, but it is fun to do anyhow. Plus it increase our collective knowledge about frigate design as a defence pastime.

800 million for all 4? thats actually rather cheap, although, if we were to add aster 15mod, the price would skyrocket.

No - the unit cost for ONE frigate was 800 Million for South Africa.

The Italians seems to be busy like a bee behind the scene these days. Leonardo, Fincantieri, MBDA, Alenia Aermacci bosses are paying regular visits on 'professional matters '.

We should really try to use this opportunity to kick start a program to gain, learn & acquire new technology.

How much chance of a Italian version of FREMM?

View attachment 465639

But whether new ships are from EU or not, majority of the sensors & electronics would be from EU. That much is guaranteed by this point.

I am sure Italians will be too happy to sell us the FREMM design and help us build it.

The more important question however is whether we have the requisite shipbuilding skills as a small country for a frigate this size, to which the answer is a definite yes, especially on the private industry side, with many ship exporting yards.

To wit, we have never built a large modern frigate displacing 3000 tons or so, but neither did surrounding countries before proceeding with modern designs sourced from overseas around the start of the millennium. Prior to this, everyone soldiered on with horribly antiquated Leander class or local derivatives.

There will always be a first time for everything and this significant 'leap' will test our organizational capabilities and skills as a Navy and also as a nation, with private-public yard partnerships.

 

[Arthur]

I am sure Italians will be too happy to sell us the FREMM design and help us build it.

This design has a particular merit to it. I like how this design can easily be scaled up or down for frigate or destroyer roles. It might be only few of it's kind design which has this feature built in, starting from the drafting board.

It would be a great cost effective measure for BN regarding their destroyer program, since they can just scale up this design without spending considerable time/fund in redesigning or retooling or retraining it's dockyard.

I believe more cost effective measures can be adopted in this design vis a vis many counterpart.

I.e Morroccan version of the FREMM costs some 470 million euros for 1 ship. I think if we build 8 of them the cost will go down further. And if we customise some sensors & electronics, armaments, it will cut the cost further.

There will always be a first time for everything and this significant 'leap' will test our organizational capabilities and skills as a Navy and also as a nation, with private-public yard partnerships

We are heading the right direction bro.
This one comes to mind-
www.daily-sun.com/post/281021/Western-Marine-Ctg-Drydockreach-deal

 

[Anubis]

When you don’t have money. Ain’t no amount of leadership will save yo *** in aviation. Hard facts

We have enough money to buy good SAMs to make BDs small airspace a fortress.

 

[Tanveer666]

No - the unit cost for ONE frigate was 800 Million for South Africa.

Are you sure? the wiki page said total cost of all 4 MEKO 200 for south africa was 9.7 billion rands which equates to 800 million. Even the FREMMS cost less than that, for example morocco bought theirs for $600+ million

 

[Bilal9]

Are you sure? the wiki page said total cost of all 4 MEKO 200 for south africa was 9.7 billion rands which equates to 800 million. Even the FREMMS cost less than that, for example morocco bought theirs for $600+ million

You are right brother, and I am wrong.

However I do not trust Wiki because anyone can edit Wiki pages. If Chinese 054B can cost $350-400 Million apiece, then equivalent size MEKO 200s built in Germany cannot be half of that....

ALGERIA’S new MEKO 200s were ordered in March 2012 from Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) in a $2.7 Billion USD order (involving two ships, six AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300 helicopters and an option for two more ships.

https://quwa.org/2015/09/22/meko-a-200an-algerias-new-warships/

Assuming that Super Lynx helis cost $14.5 million a unit (safe bet), the six helis would cost $87 million. That means the Two Algerian MEKOs cost $1.3 Billion each! That is incredible - even knowing how heavily armed those MEKOs are.