Bangladesh Air Force

[Avicenna]

I kind of agree with you.
Buying both Mig-35 and J-10C is dumb.
From my understanding, pilots can move straight onto Yak-130 without K-8 intermediate trainer . Reason I say this is that the RAF here operates one propeller trainer and one jet trainer. There is no intermediate jet trainer required.
My hope is that BAF was so desperate for SU-30 and brought the Mig-35 which is good enough for Myanmar, thinking that it will have enough money in 5 years to then go Chinese.
BAF will have a large enough budget to operate 3 fighters as the economy looks set to stay strong.
Dumb I know but we are talking about BD and BAF here!

I’m really disappointed in BAF.

I would love to know their thought process behind this decision.

If there is any redeeming factors to buying the -35 and -30SME.

It’s that they are new build examples.

Russia is or will be operating them.

Other countries have also bought them.

For the Sukhoi, specifically Malaysia and Indonesia.

Perhaps BD can work closer with those two countries and learn from their experiences with the platform.

Also, no matter how you look at it, 32 MiG-35 and 12 Su-30SME is a lot of firepower.

Now the question is if it’s really true.

And moreover, BAF need to train capable people to fly these things.

 

[UKBengali]

I’m really disappointed in BAF.

I would love to know their thought process behind this decision.

If there is any redeeming factors to buying the -35 and -30SME.

It’s that they are new build examples.

Russia is or will be operating them.

Other countries have also bought them.

For the Sukhoi, specifically Malaysia and Indonesia.

Perhaps BD can work closer with those two countries and learn from their experiences with the platform.

Also, no matter how you look at it, 32 MiG-35 and 12 Su-30SME is a lot of firepower.

Now the question is if it’s really true.

And moreover, BAF need to train capable people to fly these things.

I am inclined to think this is true as both Hasina and a minister talked about advanced fighter aircraft procurements last year. The minister even was specific about naval strike fighters (SU-30SME?).
Despite the fact that BAF should have gone for either J-10C or Gripen E instead of Mig-35, I am pleased that if this is true MAF will have been totally neutralised. Mig-35 should at least be able to hold it's own against MAF JF-17s and will be superior to their more numerous Mig-29s. In essence BAF will attain air superiority against MAF and this is at least something to be pleased about.

Now what about AWACs, can you integrate say either Chinese or Swedish AWACs with Mig-35/SU-30SME?

 

[Avicenna]

I am inclined to think this is true as both Hasina and a minister talked about advanced fighter aircraft procurements last year. The minister even was specific about naval strike fighters (SU-30SME?).
Despite the fact that BAF should have gone for either J-10C or Gripen E instead of Mig-35, I am pleased that if this is true MAF will have been totally neutralised. Mig-35 should at least be able to hold it's own against MAF JF-17s and will be superior to their more numerous Mig-29s. In essence BAF will attain air superiority against MAF and this is at least something to be pleased about.

Now what about AWACs, can you integrate say either Chinese or Swedish AWACs with Mig-35/SU-30SME?

About the AWACS I have no idea.

Also, MiG-35 has the advantage of two engines for potential over sea operations.

However, other than that, I’m not sure how it’s superior to a JF-17, especially a potentially Block 3 Thunder.

 

[UKBengali]

About the AWACS I have no idea.

Also, MiG-35 has the advantage of two engines for potential over sea operations.

However, other than that, I’m not sure how it’s superior to a JF-17, especially a potentially Block 3 Thunder.

After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.
However Myanmar may not be able to afford many more fighters soon as I think JF-17 Block 3 will be lethal.

 

[Avicenna]

After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.
However Myanmar may not be able to afford many more fighters soon as I think JF-17 Block 3 will be lethal.

I think I have been wrong.

Chinese hardware may have caught up to the West.

If that’s the case, JF-17M worries me.

 

[UKBengali]

I think I have been wrong.

Chinese hardware may have caught up to the West.

If that’s the case, JF-17M worries me.

Still think that Gripen E will outgun JF-17 Block 3 but it may not be much superior. Gripen E will at least have the advantage of superior networking between multiple fighters.

From what can be gleaned it seems that PAF totally jammed the hell out of the Indian Russian and Jewish systems on February the 27th.

Interestingly I read a report from a Chinese radar expert years ago(sorry did not bookmark the link!) who claimed that China is only behind the USA in radar technology. No idea how he came to that conclusion but he may not be far off the mark!

 

[Avicenna]

Still think that Gripen E will outgun JF-17 Block 3 but it may not be much superior. Gripen E will at least have the advantage of superior networking between multiple fighters.

From what can be gleaned it seems that PAF totally jammed the hell out of the Indian Russian and Jewish systems on February the 27th.

Interestingly I read a report from a Chinese radar expert years ago(sorry did not bookmark the link!) who claimed that China is only behind the USA in radar technology. No idea how he came to that conclusion but he may not be far off the mark!

What really concerns me is the trajectory that the Russians and Chinese are taking.

Chinese aviation seems to be ascending while Russian aviation seems to be descending.

The prospect of Myanmar fielding PL-15 specifically concerns me.

Also FC-31 may be in the cards eventually, if not some other completely new 5th gen design in the future.

So Myanmar has a nice pipeline there.

As for BD, if it goes Russian, the SU-57 isn’t reputed to be all that good.

China seems to be Uber active.

Russia, not so much.

If I was BD, I would have bought Western AND Chinese and not involved Russia.

 

[UKBengali]

What really concerns me is the trajectory that the Russians and Chinese are taking.

Chinese aviation seems to be ascending while Russian aviation seems to be descending.

The prospect of Myanmar fielding PL-15 specifically concerns me.

Also FC-31 may be in the cards eventually, if not some other completely new 5th gen design in the future.

So Myanmar has a nice pipeline there

As for BD, if it goes Russian, the SU-57 isn’t reputed to be all that good.

China seems to be Uber active.

Russia, not so much.

If I was BD, I would have bought Western AND Chinese and not involved Russia.

I am confident that China would have sold BD J-10C or J-10 with an AESA radar and the deadly SD-10A at the very least. This would have been enough for SU-30MKI, although not for Rafale with AESA and Meteor. J-10C with PL-15 would be capable of facing Rafale with Meteor I am sure.

India has rejected SU-57 and Russia hardly seems keen. By all accounts that aircraft is not 5th gen in the league of either US F-22/F-35 or even Chinese J-20.

As for Myanmar getting FC-31, that is not likely before 2030 as there seems to be little progress on that. PAF is working on Project AZM and that is the direction they are heading towards and so that is an indication that FC-31 is not making much progress.

JF-17 Block 3 with PL-15 would be able to obliterate both Mig-35 and SU-30SME it seems and that is massive worry.

If this is true, it is disappointing but it is better than having practically no airforce at all.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I kind of agree with you.
Buying both Mig-35 and J-10C is dumb.
From my understanding, pilots can move straight onto Yak-130 without K-8 intermediate trainer . Reason I say this is that the RAF here operates one propeller trainer and one jet trainer. There is no intermediate jet trainer required.
My hope is that BAF was so desperate for SU-30 and brought the Mig-35 which is good enough for Myanmar, thinking that it will have enough money in 5 years to then go Chinese.
BAF will have a large enough budget to operate 3 fighters as the economy looks set to stay strong.
Dumb I know but we are talking about BD and BAF here!

Edit - as far as I am aware you can move straight from K-8 to J-10C 2 seater for final training. BAF may have purchased no less than 23 K-8s last summer.

i don't think that will happen... at least not chinese fighter....
i guess BAF bought those k8 so that rookie pilots could get their flight hours up in that and to keep the YAK flight hours in check... idk, don't quote me on that but this could be one reason

After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.
However Myanmar may not be able to afford many more fighters soon as I think JF-17 Block 3 will be lethal.

you also have to count the training.... indian pilots i guess are still inferior. back in the days... india had the numerical and technological advantage... but that didn't stop few numbered less technologically advanced pakistani planes to shoot them down.

 

[Avicenna]

i don't think that will happen... at least not chinese fighter....
i guess BAF bought those k8 so that rookie pilots could get their flight hours up in that and to keep the YAK flight hours in check... idk, don't quote me on that but this could be one reason


you also have to count the training.... indian pilots i guess are still inferior. back in the days... india had the numerical and technological advantage... but that didn't stop few numbered less technologically advanced pakistani planes to shoot them down.

K-8 is the first jet new pilots are gonna train on.

Probably much cheaper to buy and operate than a YAK.

They perform two different roles.

The YAK probably substitutes the training in two seat versions of the supersonic fighters because it’s cheaper to operate and also confer a limited ground attack role.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Interestingly I read a report from a Chinese radar expert years ago(sorry did not bookmark the link!) who claimed that China is only behind the USA in radar technology. No idea how he came to that conclusion but he may not be far off the mark!

they've made many substantial claims over the years.... many of which is in the realms of sci- fi

As for BD, if it goes Russian, the SU-57 isn’t reputed to be all that good.

what makes you say that?

India has rejected SU-57 and Russia hardly seems keen. By all accounts that aircraft is not 5th gen in the league of either US F-22/F-35 or even Chinese J-20.

india rejected sukhoi because it wanted full TOT while russia was willing to only give it partial access, indians claimed earlier that it is jointly involved in developing the russian fighter which was not the case and the russians wanted more money for india to get access to things they developed from scratch... tbh i wouldn't keep j-20 ahead of su-57 in any way... the f-22 have lower radar signature but without proper upgrade program for it... i fear su-57 might have already caught upto it in many aspects.... if i were to choose between the f22 and su57... i would get in a su 57 any time of the day.... however, the japanese plan to acquire f22 design to improve upon seems promising, in which case i'm pretty sure all cons related to f22 will be ironed out and then there's no beating that plane.....

j-20 is more of a f35 with more payload and speed... it's meant to be hidden and strike from a distance... not dogfight like the f22 or su 57

K-8 is the first jet new pilots are gonna train on.

Probably much cheaper to buy and operate than a YAK.

They perform two different roles.

The YAK probably substitutes the training in two seat versions of the supersonic fighters because it’s cheaper to operate and also confer a limited ground attack role.

i guess, but this is all up for debate, cons of not having an insight look into the workings of BAF

 

[The Ronin]

After what happened between PAF and IAF, I do not think that Mig-35 is better than JF-17 Block 2.

Did PAF actually used JF-17? Only credible evidence was that American AA missile from fired from F-16, so yes they used F-16. And shooting IAF Mig-21 was the only other thing with proof. The rest were pure BS and propaganda. Also how did you came to that conclusion? these two haven't meet each others yet.

Also FC-31 may be in the cards eventually, if not some other completely new 5th gen design in the future.

Even if they plan about it it will take years. AVIC still hasn't started full production of FC-31. After strengthening BAF's fire-power, lets say after 2025 they can also start considering about 5th gen. Hopefully by that time Turkish and Korean 5th gen fighter jet project will be completed including Chinese and Russian ones.

India has rejected SU-57 and Russia hardly seems keen. By all accounts that aircraft is not 5th gen in the league of either US F-22/F-35 or even Chinese J-20.

Another made up BS claim? Su-57 maybe totally not on par with F-22 but how it's not better than F-35 or J-20? The F-35 can't internally carry more weapons than Su-57, the only advantage it has is it's technological edge.

the japanese plan to acquire f22 design to improve upon seems promising, in which case i'm pretty sure all cons related to f22 will be ironed out and then there's no beating that plane

Didn't US refuse to share their F-22 tech with Japs?

 

[mb444]

I fail to understand how jf17 block one could possibly be better than the mig-35.

The latter is twin engined with longer range, more payload, faster, higher service ceiling.

All a mig needs to do is fly higher to neutralize JF17.

It could be my understanding is wrong. Can anyone correct my understanding.

 

[Avicenna]

I fail to understand how jf17 block one could possibly be better than the mig-35.

The latter is twin engined with longer range, more payload, faster, higher service ceiling.

All a mig needs to do is fly higher to neutralize JF17.

It could be my understanding is wrong. Can anyone correct my understanding.

Yea I would think it’s a complex question.

Every platform has its inherent advantages and disadvantages.

It’s also a function of the way the platforms are utilized via tactics as well as quality of the pilots as well as the support and particular situation of the particular engangment.

For the Thunder, it appears to have a small visual and RCS, excellent manuverablility in the horizontal plane, and a capable BVR capability.

Two engines on the Fulcrum is an advantage over the water but is more expensive to operate.

However most notably the upgrade path to the Mig-35 is limited.

The Thunder is a much younger design with more potential for maturation and upgrade.

 

[mb444]

Yea I would think it’s a complex question.

Every platform has its inherent advantages and disadvantages.

It’s also a function of the way the platforms are utilized via tactics as well as quality of the pilots as well as the support and particular situation of the particular engangment.

For the Thunder, it appears to have a small visual and RCS, excellent manuverablility in the horizontal plane, and a capable BVR capability.

Two engines on the Fulcrum is an advantage over the water but is more expensive to operate.

However most notably the upgrade path to the Mig-35 is limited.

The Thunder is a much younger design with more potential for maturation and upgrade.

I accept what you say. But we should not write off the russians. Chinese are progressing but russia is a bona fide technological power that is keeping the entire western union in check.

Mig 35 flys at mach 2.2 with better rader with a service ceiling of 19k whilst jf17 with mach 1.6 with service ceiling of 16k.

JF 17 is not stealth it can not evade rader. Dog fight i just can not see happening between migs and the bandars jf17.

It would be mig vs mig and mig 35 is better than theirs.

If BAF gets migs backed by Su .... just can not see JF17 block one doing anything at all. JF17 will only conceivably win against f7s.

Jf17 vs mig21 was a differing proposition.

I just can not see BAF not doing analysis on this.

However i agree with you... would have preferred not going with the russians. But a fighing force of twin engined jets maybe expensive but gives BAF massive penetrative and loitering capacity.