Austria Retiring 15 New Eurofighter Typhoon Should Paf buys them for airsuperiority

[mikkix]

Some senior members must shed light on the news. I guess it will be a good choice..
@MastanKhan @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Windjammer

 

[Blue Marlin]

Depends on the financing available with the current political climate

true, but then again what whats going on in india, things are not going as planned. only 36 rafales with no firm commitment to buy more even from their navy. their single engined tender which consist of the gripen-e and the f16-blk70. the f16 is the favourite to win as it has government backing and a strong local partner (tata)
this will kiss the lca mk2 and the amca bye bye as they would offer the f35 later on.

personally 72 would be perfect with 36 in the north and 36 in the south. but thats in an ideal world.

but then again i dont think its worth it simply because by the time their inducted 2022 the j-31 would be ready for lrip and mass production.
heck but if they want it then maybe then they'd be interested in the enhanced variant

id say go for the j31 and the tfx in the future viola you have a mid/heay fighter[j31] and a mid weight fighter[tfx]

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It is because the Typhoon Tranche 1 is limited to air superiority that it isn't a good option for the PAF. The value such a platform brings to table is at-par with the F-16 Block-52/MLU - the PAF would just prefer more F-16s, especially surplus Block-25/32s.

It is the Typhoon Tranche 3 which is of real value thanks to its deep-strike capabilities, e.g. compatibility with SOW and ALCM, CFTs, etc. However, each one of those cost Kuwait $321 million per unit inclusive of spare parts, weapons and training.

Besides coming up with the money, Pakistan would need to get Germany on board to back a sale (with regulatory approval and potentially credit). I don't think Italy and Spain would mind (plenty of grease built there over the years), but Germany and UK (unless Nawaz decides to some national good and leverage his investment there) will be tricky.

In terms of money, here is an approximate layout of how costs would need to be managed:

The cumulative value of a deal for 24 planes would be $7.7 billion U.S. Let's say $1.2 billion is for air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons. Roughly half of the $6.5 bn would be the cost of the actual fighter at fly-away cost ($135 million per plane). A 10-year payment plan would mean spending $325 million a year. The PAF's operating budget would need another $325 million per year in place to actually fly the Typhoons. The $1.2bn weapons cost might not be as high if the AAMs and SOW/ALCM are bought from Turkey and Pakistan, respectively.

On their own the Typhoon Tranche 1 wouldn't be of any added value. But if you add the Typhoon Tranche 3 for deep-strike, then buying some Tranche 1s to serve as air cover and air-interdiction assets would be interesting. That said, the operating costs of such a fleet (e.g. Austria said it'd cost $13 m a year to fly each T1) would skyrocket beyond the PAF's capacity. The PAF would have to settle with the T3 OR T1, and seeing the T1's deficit in deep-strike, it'd be T3, which then triggers a spate of requirements in financing and access (esp. from Germany and the UK).

That said, having 24 Typhoon T3s backed by 76 F-16s (ideally plus 24 surplus and upgraded F-16 Block-25/32) would provide a neat offensive force. T3s for deploying A2G munitions and F-16s to provide top-cover.

@Oscar

 

[Blue Marlin]

It is because the Typhoon Tranche 1 is limited to air superiority that it isn't a good option for the PAF. The value such a platform brings to table is at-par with the F-16 Block-52/MLU - the PAF would just prefer more F-16s, especially surplus Block-25/32s.

It is the Typhoon Tranche 3 which is of real value thanks to its deep-strike capabilities, e.g. compatibility with SOW and ALCM, CFTs, etc. However, each one of those cost Kuwait $321 million per unit inclusive of spare parts, weapons and training.

Besides coming up with the money, Pakistan would need to get Germany on board to back a sale (with regulatory approval and potentially credit). I don't think Italy and Spain would mind (plenty of grease built there over the years), but Germany and UK will be tricky.

In terms of money, here is an approximate layout of how costs would need to be managed:

The cumulative value of a deal for 24 planes would be $7.7 billion U.S. Let's say $1.2 billion is for air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons. Roughly half of the $6.5 bn would be the cost of the actual fighter at fly-away cost ($135 million per plane). A 10-year payment plan would mean spending $325 million a year. The PAF's operating budget would need another $325 million per year in place to actually fly the Typhoons. The $1.2bn weapons cost might not be as high if the AAMs and SOW/ALCM are bought from Turkey and Pakistan, respectively.

On their own the Typhoon Tranche 1 wouldn't be of any added value. But if you add the Typhoon Tranche 3 for deep-strike, then buying some Tranche 1s to serve as air cover and air-interdiction assets would be interesting. That said, the operating costs of such a fleet (e.g. Austria said it'd cost $13 m a year to fly each T1) would skyrocket beyond the PAF's capacity. The PAF would have to settle with the T3 OR T1, and seeing the T1's deficit in deep-strike, it'd be T3, which then triggers a spate of requirements in financing and access (esp. from Germany and the UK).

@Oscar

forget the trance1's here the tranche 2 onwards is whats good. do note the tranche 2 onwards can e upgraded to hold the captor-e[aesa].
what would be a real monster would be the tranche 3b

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

forget the trance1's here the tranche 2 onwards is whats good. do note the tranche 2 onwards can e upgraded to hold the captor-e[aesa].
what would be a real monster would be the tranche 3b

Yep ... 24 T3B for strike and the PAF's 76 existing F-16s - maybe stretched to 100 via surplus Block-25/32 and upgraded with AN/APG-83 - would be a strong offensive force. You can commit them for strike and air interdiction freely by having the JF-17s form the defensive wall over home soil.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yep ... 24 T3B for strike and the PAF's 76 existing F-16s - maybe stretched to 100 via surplus Block-25/32 and upgraded with AN/APG-83 - would be a strong offensive force. You can commit them for strike and air interdiction freely by having the JF-17s form the defensive wall over home soil.

do note that pakistan has their squadrons in mupliples of 18 so it would be either 18 or 36 theoretically speaking. i dont know if you can upgrade existing 3a's into 3b's. i know the royal airforce wants the 3b but the other partners are not so keen.

surplus f16 can be purchased via fms which does not need congress aproval but wont come with aesa, thats where turkey should come in. america is courting india into the f16 so its a balancing act but in india's favour which should not be seen as a problem.

yes the jf-17 would have an aesa and an irst which the f16 does not have built in.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

do note that pakistan has their squadrons in mupliples of 18 so it would be either 18 or 36 theoretically speaking. i dont know if you can upgrade existing 3a's into 3b's. i know the royal airforce wants the 3b but the other partners are not so keen.

surplus f16 can be purchased via fms which does not need congress aproval but wont come with aesa, thats where turkey should come in. america is courting india into the f16 so its a balancing act but in india's favour which should not be seen as a problem.

yes the jf-17 would have an aesa and an irst which the f16 does not have built in.

Note: The PAF's No. 9 and No. 11 squadrons operate 43 F-16A/B MLUs between them. IIRC even the first Mirage III squadron (24 planes) went to No. 5 in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

Since we're on the "dreamliner" ... would be nice if the PAF can add 1 Airbus A330 MRTT to a Typhoon T3A/B deal too. With the Typhoon T3A (or T3B), F-16 MLU and A330 MRTT, you can build a complete offensive air wing.

 

[XDescendantX]

J-10C can do the same job as the EF 2000 for 3x's less the price and no strings attached. In the mean time keep working on JF-17 block 3 and wait for J-31.

 

[Globalwarrior]

Austria has a big problem maintaining them and yet you want to take the bait and get yourself into more trouble for PA? Those Euro fighter will eat up fund like no tomorrow. It will destroy one AF even without needing a war.

LOL !!

 

[Blue Marlin]

Note: The PAF's No. 9 and No. 11 squadrons operate 43 F-16A/B MLUs between them. IIRC even the first Mirage III squadron (24 planes) went to No. 5 in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

Since we're on the "dreamliner" ... would be nice if the PAF can add 1 Airbus A330 MRTT to a Typhoon T3A/B deal too. With the Typhoon T3A (or T3B), F-16 MLU and A330 MRTT, you can build a complete offensive air wing.

ahhhh dreams can you throw this in too https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/part...m-and-alcohol-was-a-suprise-to-locals.505721/ if so id take a squadron

 

[ziaulislam]

5 Billion Euro of Maintenance in 30 Years i think PAF can Afford that



But is Italy Selling them??

they offered to Romania at same price of f-16s used minus upgrades but Romania choose f-16s

 

[Avicenna]

Whatever PAF chooses, it must be kept in mind, from a political standpoint, US animosity towards Pakistan has only just begun.

Barring some unforseen circumstance, I see the US position increasingly becoming pro India and increasingly antagonistic towards Pakistan.

I can see the advantages of surplus F-16's, but PAF needs a non-American qualitative component.

Similarly, I hope Pakistan and Turkey have some coordinated effort in terms of procuring equipment. I fear both will eventually be targets of US malevolence.

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

PAF did not acquired 8 Block-52 F-16s for just 700 million dollars because they are working on another plan and diverting funds to those plans. Otherwise PAF would easily have purchased those shining brand new Block-52s which are more than their capabilities in the hands of seasoned pilots of PAF. Many airforces in the world are going after F-16s in their latest configuration which are unfortunately not available to Pakistan.

Pakistan will be retiring its early 80's era F-16s due to the lack of flying hours in them as soon as the 5th generation fighter will be materialized. JF-17 Thunder Block II & III will replace all the aircrafts except F-16s and eventually F-16 will be replaced by a next generation aircraft. No chance for Tranch II eurofighters.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If these r 30 year old birds then how much juice is left in them. Secondly they would definitely need a mid life upgrade for their Airframes, engines and avionics and Europeans are the most expensive in the world. Total cost of fly away may be again around a new bird from China or Russia.

People seems to believe that it does not make sense to upgrade a Tranche 1 EF to
a later Tranche.
They changed the main computer, and I suspect they changed a lot of the attached stuff,
and there may be no software available for the Tranche 1 stuff for the new computer,
so a lot of stuff would have to be replaced, and that might need mechanical changes etc.
I suspect a Tranche 1 will remain a Tranche 1, and it will be phased out, creating problems with spares.

 

[Beast]

moderators.... please shut this fellow down. I have had enough of this stupidity.

Really? You and your bogus experience of some manpack bought from non military grade civilian sector and paint it as the gold standard of Chinese issue equipment. Typical ignorant BS trying to slander and sway others opinion of China. I am more sick of your this kind of attitude. It the one to get ban, it will be you.