Austria Retiring 15 New Eurofighter Typhoon Should Paf buys them for airsuperiority

[Lord Of Gondor]

Which Radar T-1 uses ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroradar_CAPTOR

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Which Radar T-1 uses ?

CAPTOR.

 

[denel]

Hi,

@denel is a great asset to the board---any comments by him are greatly appreciated---. His flag is authentic and so is his background. Thank you.

dankie broer!... if you ever plan to visit SA, do let me know will be happy to accommodate you here at our farm outside zeerust.... you need to pardon the prolific log periodics/hf yagis in the yard for amateur radio/reserve comms. Will be happy to take you over to Tuli block if you are interested for good R&R in real nature reserve.

 

[Avicenna]

dankie broer!... if you ever plan to visit SA, do let me know will be happy to accommodate you here at our farm outside zeerust.... you need to pardon the prolific log periodics/hf yagis in the yard for amateur radio/reserve comms. Will be happy to take you over to Tuli block if you are interested for good R&R in real nature reserve.

I agree @denel is without doubt an asset to PDF.

His posts often are full of good insight and are balanced.

 

[MastanKhan]

dankie broer!... if you ever plan to visit SA, do let me know will be happy to accommodate you here at our farm outside zeerust.... you need to pardon the prolific log periodics/hf yagis in the yard for amateur radio/reserve comms. Will be happy to take you over to Tuli block if you are interested for good R&R in real nature reserve.

Hi,

Thank you for your kind offer---. If I ever come that way---I will take you up on your offer.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Today i saw i news that Austrian government is decided to phase ourt EF 2000 due to cost factor and they don't have Enemy at their borders and eminent need of jets

Pakistan Airforce lacks in airsuperiority role and deep strike capability these 15 EF 2000 Can fullfil our needs until we get new fith generations jet and these jets will come at lesser price as second hand jets top of it they can fire any New air to air missile like IRIST MATADEOR etc which F 16 cannot yet

Top of it until we get new twin engine 5th generation jet our pilots can gain experience in twin engine jet of EF 2000 calliber and somewhat we can counter Rafale if India with this aqusation

Bhutan is also retiring their 15 glides
should we also buy them for harassing Afghanistan?
what kind of chawal threads you guys make? dont you even think before opening a thread? 15 used expensive jets without any infrastructure? know how or planning?

 

[karakoram]

If they sell it on instalments. 5k per month then we should consider it

 

[Super Falcon]

Bhutan is also retiring their 15 glides
should we also buy them for harassing Afghanistan?
what kind of chawal threads you guys make? dont you even think before opening a thread? 15 used expensive jets without any infrastructure? know how or planning?

Than we go with your mindset do nothing for decades at least we can think of adding with new order with these 8

Before replying anyone Mr if u don't think it's worth replying don't it will be great if have seen tons of immature threads from you

 

[Basel]

If the Europeans can't afford it then how could we do, Austrians are selling old ones to save 2 billion dollars of maintenance by buying new one. PAF would be mad of even looking at them.

They can afford them if they have threat like India next door but they know that no big threat is there which requires big ticket funding.

PAF is trying to move into 4.5gen stopgaps so the EF is only going to be looked at in its tranche 3 configuration; finances are supposedly available.

Do you think PAF will go for latest trench 3 EFTs?? Although it's what PAF needs to counter expanding IAF.

It is because the Typhoon Tranche 1 is limited to air superiority that it isn't a good option for the PAF. The value such a platform brings to table is at-par with the F-16 Block-52/MLU - the PAF would just prefer more F-16s, especially surplus Block-25/32s.

It is the Typhoon Tranche 3 which is of real value thanks to its deep-strike capabilities, e.g. compatibility with SOW and ALCM, CFTs, etc. However, each one of those cost Kuwait $321 million per unit inclusive of spare parts, weapons and training.

Besides coming up with the money, Pakistan would need to get Germany on board to back a sale (with regulatory approval and potentially credit). I don't think Italy and Spain would mind (plenty of grease built there over the years), but Germany and UK (unless Nawaz decides to some national good and leverage his investment there) will be tricky.

In terms of money, here is an approximate layout of how costs would need to be managed:

The cumulative value of a deal for 24 planes would be $7.7 billion U.S. Let's say $1.2 billion is for air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons. Roughly half of the $6.5 bn would be the cost of the actual fighter at fly-away cost ($135 million per plane). A 10-year payment plan would mean spending $325 million a year. The PAF's operating budget would need another $325 million per year in place to actually fly the Typhoons. The $1.2bn weapons cost might not be as high if the AAMs and SOW/ALCM are bought from Turkey and Pakistan, respectively.

On their own the Typhoon Tranche 1 wouldn't be of any added value. But if you add the Typhoon Tranche 3 for deep-strike, then buying some Tranche 1s to serve as air cover and air-interdiction assets would be interesting. That said, the operating costs of such a fleet (e.g. Austria said it'd cost $13 m a year to fly each T1) would skyrocket beyond the PAF's capacity. The PAF would have to settle with the T3 OR T1, and seeing the T1's deficit in deep-strike, it'd be T3, which then triggers a spate of requirements in financing and access (esp. from Germany and the UK).

That said, having 24 Typhoon T3s backed by 76 F-16s (ideally plus 24 surplus and upgraded F-16 Block-25/32) would provide a neat offensive force. T3s for deploying A2G munitions and F-16s to provide top-cover.

@Oscar

EFT will also bring weapons which PAF don't have now i.e meteor BVR and Brimstone etc.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I think the OP is quite right, this has interesting possibilities and Pak should buy the EFTs. @Nilgiri

 

[Nilgiri]

I think the OP is quite right, this has interesting possibilities and Pak should buy the EFTs. @Nilgiri

Sure if they want to get more stuff open to sanctions and controls (West lately is drifting away from Pakistan military and further impetus being added by US under Trump it seems). There is pro and con...and is it worth it with only 15 aircraft too.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think the OP is quite right, this has interesting possibilities and Pak should buy the EFTs. @Nilgiri

Sure if they want to get more stuff open to sanctions and controls (West lately is drifting away from Pakistan military and further impetus being added by US under Trump it seems). There is pro and con...and is it worth it with only 15 aircraft too.

Of the Tranche 1s available for sale, there are 15 in Austria, up to 18 in Spain and up to 24 in Italy. However, the problem is that these are incapable of stand-off range strike. They would only be air-to-air fighters.

 

[ziaulislam]

PAF has made up its mind
take the thunders to capabilities of gripen
and work on fifth gen
the gap will be filled by thunders if available at cheaper price than f-16s might come as well

deploying a large number of familiar home build design will essentially mean way cheaper operating cost, redirection of revenue back into Pakistan and development of next gen/home grown aviation industry

in long run this is the right decision.
may be PAF can optimize a certain block of thunder with larger wing span and stronger engine for strike mission in future or give that rule to upcoming fifth gen fighter which would make sense given the intense air defence system that will be facing in india

 

[ziaulislam]

Of the Tranche 1s available for sale, there are 15 in Austria, up to 18 in Spain and up to 24 in Italy. However, the problem is that these are incapable of stand-off range strike. They would only be air-to-air fighters.

If pakistan do get these old frames and put them through upgrade. And if Pakistan is given enough independence on its own weapon system, would this be cost effective replacement of our mirages for strike missions ? I mean given low hours on these frames even 30-50million end price will not be a bad deal. Now operational cost is another issue

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If pakistan do get these old frames and put them through upgrade. And if Pakistan is given enough independence on its own weapon system, would this be cost effective replacement of our mirages for strike missions ? I mean given low hours on these frames even 30-50million end price will not be a bad deal. Now operational cost is another issue

It's just not cost-effective to upgrade the Tranche 1. They had replaced and changed a lot of the internal stuff (e.g. wiring, computers, etc) to get to Tranche 2. The RAF will just fly its T1s as air-to-air fighters.

If the PAF wants the Typhoon for strike missions, then it can look at ~24 T3s with custom munitions (e.g. Turkish SOM, Ra'ad 2, Roketsan Atmaca, HGK, etc). Have them work in concert with the F-16s (e.g. T3 for strike and F-16s for top cover and air interdiction).