Asia's Great Naval Rivalry

[Secur]

actually 10 years first flight was in 2001 the design freeze was in 1990 91 was when the economic problems happened sanctions happened in 98 we were hit with a technology embargo how the hell can you make a fighter jet when the sale of technologies has been prohibited by the international community? the American engines powered the technology demonstrators and the FBW was developed entirely in India

You at last admitted that it isn't indigenous ... First flight in 2001 means nothing ... Talk to me when it gets operational ... The 2 squadrons of PAF are equipped with JFT as of now ... Enlighten me if the same is true for Tejas

Tejas IOC this year its complete some testing is still being done but its ready to enter IAF service besides its better than those ancient MiG-21's which is the purpose of it entering service in fact thats why the entire development was carried out

The same Mig 21's which are so lovingly nicknames " the flying coffins " by your media and stop lying about the design freeze and sanctions ... Tejas only got design finalization in 1991 ... How exactly was the design frozen then ?

HAL Tejas



1991 Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993 Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995 First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997 Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.

How was the funding provided if you were so under economic crisis ? It looks like Wiki is enough to debunk your claims

IAF forced to fly MiG-21s till 2017 due to Tejas delay

and what the hell have you proved? all you've done is posted some crap off Wikipedia i'm asking you for a link not some fairy tail conspiracy BS Talwar frigates are the modified Krivaks not the Shivaliks your ignorance amazes me come up with a link that the Shivalik frigates are Russian quite frankly i am not interested in your BS

Its official news ... Does it matter if you dont believe it ? Shivalik was never an indigenous endeavour ... It was based on another Russian design and designed by them in India

The United States government states that the Ghauri design is based on North Korea's Rodong-1 (also known as Nodong-1) missile

Bro I never mentioned it in my post if you care to see that

What about Raad ALCM , Nasr ( Hatf 1X ) , Abdali , Ghaznavi , Ghauri 2 & 3 and Shaheen 1 , 2 & 3 ? Which missiles are they copied from ? Even you received Soviet assistance to start your nuclear programme

Where do you see Ghauri 1 here ?

 

[LiberalAtheist]

You at last admitted that it isn't indigenous ... First flight in 2001 means nothing ... Talk to me when it gets operational ... The 2 squadrons of PAF are equipped with JFT as of now ... Enlighten me if the same is true for Tejas

The same Mig 21's which are so lovingly nicknames " the flying coffins " by your media and stop lying about the design freeze and sanctions ... Tejas only got design finalization in 1991 ... How exactly was the design frozen then ?

HAL Tejas



1991 Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993 Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995 First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997 Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.

How was the funding provided if you were so under economic crisis ? It looks like Wiki is enough to debunk your claims

IAF forced to fly MiG-21s till 2017 due to Tejas delay


Its official news ... Does it matter if you dont believe it ? Shivalik was never an indigenous endeavour ... It was based on another Russian design and designed by them in India

Bro I never mentioned it in my post if you care to see that


Where do you see Ghauri 1 here ?

1991? the year of the Indian economic crisis

Why India bought IMF gold - Rediff.com Business

full funding started again in 93 we made prototypes and in 98 sanctions were given to us by your daddy USA after nuclear tests still the flight was completed in 2001 had the economic problems or sanctions not have occurred LCA would have been well in service by now its a learning experience we learned how to make our own fighter jet albeit the AF wants it better and they will get that the IOC was this year first flight 10 years ago the development that was supposed to take place in the 90's took place in the 2000's because of the delays

MiG-21 Bisons will stay in service till then the LCA MK1 48 will replace the ancient non upgraded MiG's along with the MMRCA fleet MK2 will replace the MiG-21 bison fleet completely in 2017 when the MiG-21 bison retires by 2017 LCA MK2 will have entered production phase


yes they're already in service and the PAF wants is looking to Italy and France for an avionics upgrade this shows how lethal it really is our MiG-21 Bisons avionics are probably equal if not better

man i've had enough of your BS about the Shivalik frigates these links will take care of your BS claims of Shivalik class frigates being russian designs

http://mod.nic.in/samachar/dec1-06/h4.htm

http://mod.nic.in/reports/MOD-English2004.pdf

please have the balls to say Shivalik frigates are Russian after reading these two posts otherwise come up with a link

and here read about the Ghuari missile

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/archived-reports-1/jan_jun1999.html#pakistan

 

[Secur]

full funding started again in 93 we made prototypes and in 98 sanctions were given to us by your daddy USA after nuclear tests still the flight was completed in 2001 had the economic problems or sanctions not have occurred LCA would have been well in service

How it got delayed by 10 years as you said earlier because of economic crisis ? Economic crisis was in 1991 ... The program is already too late even if i consider that economic crisis had some significant impact ? Rapidly changing statements aren't you ?
How did some sanctions hampered your progress if you claim that LCA is all indigenous ? Saying that sanctions had some great impact proves that you were dependent on foreign contractors for development of the plane doesn't it ? Just explain me this part
The same sanctions were placed on Pakistan by USA but we still managed to get JFT operational within time

man i've had enough of your BS about the Shivalik frigates these links will take care of your BS claims of Shivalik class frigates being russian designs

http://mod.nic.in/samachar/dec1-06/h4.htm

http://mod.nic.in/reports/MOD-English2004.pdf

Just tell me will you believe if i get you a Pakistani link claiming JFT to be indigenous ?
If not , then kindly dont ridicule yourself by getting some Indian sources to prove your point
Neutral Wiki remains a credible sources unlike these biased sites

Shivalik Class Frigate


It was jointly designed by the Naval Design Bureau (NDB) and Russia's Severnoye Project Design Bureau (Severnoye Proyektno-Konstruktorskoye Bjuro - SPKB). SPKB's design influence can be observed in the Delhi Class destroyers and Khukri / Kora Class corvettes. (Read the design section of the article) I know you still cant understand the similarity between Shivalik and Talwar class ... The former being a modified version of the latter

and here read about the Ghuari missile

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/....html#pakistan

I dont need to read anything about Ghauri Missile ... I assumed for the sake of debate that its based on Nodong
The question i am asking is what are these missiles Raad ALCM , Nasr ( Hatf 1X ) , Abdali , Ghaznavi , Ghauri 2 & 3 and Shaheen 1 , 2 & 3 based on since according to you all the missiles were gifted to us by Chinese ?

 

[LiberalAtheist]

How it got delayed by 10 years as you said earlier because of economic crisis ? Economic crisis was in 1991 ... The program is already too late even if i consider that economic crisis had some significant impact ? Rapidly changing statements aren't you ?
How did some sanctions hampered your progress if you claim that LCA is all indigenous ? Saying that sanctions had some great impact proves that you were dependent on foreign contractors for development of the plane doesn't it ? Just explain me this part
The same sanctions were placed on Pakistan by USA but we still managed to get JFT operational within time

Just tell me will you believe if i get you a Pakistani link claiming JFT to be indigenous ?
If not , then kindly dont ridicule yourself by getting some Indian sources to prove your point
Neutral Wiki remains a credible sources unlike these biased sites



I dont need to read anything about Ghauri Missile ... I assumed for the sake of debate that its based on Nodong
The question i am asking is what are these missiles Raad ALCM , Nasr ( Hatf 1X ) , Abdali , Ghaznavi , Ghauri 2 & 3 and Shaheen 1 , 2 & 3 based on since according to you all the missiles were gifted to us by Chinese ?

1991 when the design was frozen and the economic crisis happened you even posted that source we froze the design but nothing happened till 95 because funding was delayed for sometime how the hell are we supposed to make a technology demonstrator without any cash? its common sense duh the fighter jet is indigenous but we consulted with foreign firms on technology consultation because prior to that we had no knowledge on 4th gen fighters when the consultancy was terminated because of technology embargo we were left on our own with no technology and shut up seriously dude your really ignorant who the hell is we? you guys did not make the god dam fighter nor did you design it everything was done by the Chinese the only thing Pakistan did was pay for half of the project while China paid for the other half they did all the development tell me how technology sanctions gonna effect you when you cannot even make a bike chain by yourselves?

there is no Pakistani link claiming the Chinese JF-17 is indigenous by Pakistan if there is provide it i really need a good laugh and this shows your an insecure troll spitting crap from wikipedia listen give me a credible source like the ones i provided i still have not gotten the source that says Shivalik class frigates are Russian all you've done is copy and paste from wikipedia i really don't care what some Pakistani dude wrote on Wikipedia just because he is jealous

learning screwdriver technologies to build those other missiles all you have to do is enlarge the missile by extending its length and adding another stage for extra range or remove a stage and use less fuel for shorter range missiles what the North Koreans and Chinese gave you guys in the 90's is what we were already doing in the 80's with our space launch vehicles and ballistic missile programs

 

[Secur]

1991 when the design was frozen and the economic crisis happened you even posted that source we froze the design but nothing happened till 95 because funding was delayed for sometime how the hell are we supposed to make a technology demonstrator without any cash?

Ok how come the funds were released in 1993 and development began if you were passing a economic crisis ? You said that nothing happened until 1995 which is precisely the same year the first TD ( Technology Demonstrator ) came out ... Do some research before talking about things you have no idea about

1990
Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993
Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995
First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997
Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.

Get your facts right ! Debating for the sake of debating is no use

its common sense duh the fighter jet is indigenous but we consulted with foreign firms on technology consultation because prior to that we had no knowledge on 4th gen fighters when the consultancy was terminated because of technology embargo we were left on our own with no technology and shut up seriously dude your really ignorant who the hell is we?

How come the fighter is INDIGENOUS if you yourself admit taking consultancies from foreign firms ? or You follow some other definition of INDIGENOUSNESS ? Why do you boast of Indian tech being used if you are admitting that sanctions hapered your progress because you couldn't get technology from outside ?

i still have not gotten the source that says Shivalik class frigates are Russian all you've done is copy and paste from wikipedia i really don't care what some Pakistani dude wrote on Wikipedia just because he is jealous

Here read from Global Security


Project 17 Shivalik Class Frigate


The Indian Navy ordered the first 3 ships in 1999. The Shivalik was launched in 2003, with the Satpura and Sahyadri susequently launched in 2004 and 2005. The first ship of the class Shivalik was launched on April 18, 2003 and the second ship Satpura on June 04, 2004.

The P17 ( Shivalik ) is an enlarged and modified version of the Talwar {Krivak III} Class frigates. It was jointly designed by the Naval Design Bureau (NDB) and Russia's Severnoye Project Design Bureau (Severnoye Proyektno-Konstruktorskoye Bjuro - SPKB). SPKB's design influence can be observed in the Delhi Class destroyers and Khukri / Kora Class corvettes. France's DCN International (DCNI) has been involved in this project as a consultant undertaking signature management studies. The Shivalik Class ships will have a lower infra-red signature due to Infra-Red Supression System (IRSS) design tools and training provided by Canada's Davis Engineering.In March 2009 there was a delay to India's Project 17 stealth frigate, INS Shivalik, because Us based General Electric (GE) had failed to get permission from the US government to install its gas turbine engines on the warship.


Is this what you call Indigenous ? Now dont tell me its biased - I have used a source besides wiki ( even wiki was saying precisely the same thing )

Second Shivalik-Class Warship ‘INS Satpura’ to be Commissioned Next Month


With Western and Russian weapons and sensors, the Shivalik-class frigates will be a formidable multi-role combatant platform.The Project 17 has been marred by delays right from the start due to lack of design inputs and equipment delivery from foreign vendors.

learning screwdriver technologies to build those other missiles all you have to do is enlarge the missile by extending its length and adding another stage for extra range or remove a stage and use less fuel for shorter range missiles what the North Koreans and Chinese gave you guys in the 90's is what we were already doing in the 80's with our space launch vehicles and ballistic missile programs

Is this how they build thins in your country ? Screw driver technique ( This isn't a tractor in Punjab you know ) Extending range and adding stage isn't that easy as you say otherwise we would have made a ICBM in 1990's

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Ok how come the funds were released in 1993 and development began if you were passing a economic crisis ? You said that nothing happened until 1995 which is precisely the same year the first TD ( Technology Demonstrator ) came out ... Do some research before talking about things you have no idea about

1990
Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged relaxed static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993
Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995
First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997
Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.

Get your facts right ! Debating for the sake of debating is no use

How come the fighter is INDIGENOUS if you yourself admit taking consultancies from foreign firms ? or You follow some other definition of INDIGENOUSNESS ? Why do you boast of Indian tech being used if you are admitting that sanctions hapered your progress because you couldn't get technology from outside ?



Here read from Global Security


Project 17 Shivalik Class Frigate


The Indian Navy ordered the first 3 ships in 1999. The Shivalik was launched in 2003, with the Satpura and Sahyadri susequently launched in 2004 and 2005. The first ship of the class Shivalik was launched on April 18, 2003 and the second ship Satpura on June 04, 2004.

The P17 ( Shivalik ) is an enlarged and modified version of the Talwar {Krivak III} Class frigates. It was jointly designed by the Naval Design Bureau (NDB) and Russia's Severnoye Project Design Bureau (Severnoye Proyektno-Konstruktorskoye Bjuro - SPKB). SPKB's design influence can be observed in the Delhi Class destroyers and Khukri / Kora Class corvettes. France's DCN International (DCNI) has been involved in this project as a consultant undertaking signature management studies. The Shivalik Class ships will have a lower infra-red signature due to Infra-Red Supression System (IRSS) design tools and training provided by Canada's Davis Engineering.In March 2009 there was a delay to India's Project 17 stealth frigate, INS Shivalik, because Us based General Electric (GE) had failed to get permission from the US government to install its gas turbine engines on the warship.


Is this what you call Indigenous ? Now dont tell me its biased - I have used a source besides wiki ( even wiki was saying precisely the same thing )

Second Shivalik-Class Warship ‘INS Satpura’ to be Commissioned Next Month


With Western and Russian weapons and sensors, the Shivalik-class frigates will be a formidable multi-role combatant platform.The Project 17 has been marred by delays right from the start due to lack of design inputs and equipment delivery from foreign vendors.


Is this how they build thins in your country ? Screw driver technique ( This isn't a tractor in Punjab you know ) Extending range and adding stage isn't that easy as you say otherwise we would have made a ICBM in 1990's

2 years after the funding was restarted we got a technology demonstrator to fly it would happened in early 92 or 93 was it not for the economic crisis LCA was to enter production phase in 2006 but the sanctions delayed some of the tests that were to still be done the point of the matter is LCA is our design with our technology granted the radar may be foreign but it has our inputs that was supposed to go into the original MMR the engine may be foreign but not for long when the LCA's come in for MLU they will be equipped with Indian engines

um hello retard thats what country's who are new to fighter technologies do which is why China asked for Russian help on its J-10 several european nations joined together to share technologies and they came out with the eurofighter typhoon Japan developed the F-2 in consultancy with the USA the Gripen uses many American systems only the USA and Russia can do everything on they're own France and Britain as well but USA and russia is at least 20 years ahead of everyone else in fighter jet technologies a barely industrialized nation like us still got the fighter to fly it took some time but hey we got experience and technological know how on fighters i see this as a positive thing however for your case you paid for half of a fighter project that is based on a soviet fighter design and all you get is manufacturing rights at some random dump factory not a gain what you guys are doing with JF-17 is what we did with Marut and Ajeet no offense

and i've already provided my sources for the Shivalik frigates being Indian now your just embarrassing yourself on here by brainlessly saying the Shivalik frigates were made in Russia

and that bold part is talking about weapons and sensors not the design jesus christ your such a dimwit

and global security really? the same as wikipedia what other peoples personal opinions on defense technologies are do not matter to me and funny thing is it says the same BS on the wikipedia page and the global security page obviously some insecure Pakistani with an inferiority complex is posting crap on those sites and i'm guessing it to be you since you keep on mindlessly bringing up 2 sites with the same posted info LOL get the reference for it (if it even exists) man you are one funny dimwit i have to admit


no Pakistan could make its own ICBM but it would cost more than they're entire defense budget for the design and development of it we choose not to build ICBM's because of idiots in our gov't who have no strategic appetite

 

[Secur]

2 years after the funding was restarted we got a technology demonstrator to fly it would happened in early 92 or 93 was it not for the economic crisis LCA was to enter production phase in 2006 but the sanctions delayed some of the tests that were to still be done the point of the matter is LCA is our design with our technology granted the radar may be foreign but it has our inputs that was supposed to go into the original MMR the engine may be foreign but not for long when the LCA's come in for MLU they will be equipped with Indian engines

Why the hell were you lying earlier that economic crisis lost you 10 years in development ? Yes then dont call it INDIGENOUS if you imported tech from outside

um hello retard thats what country's who are new to fighter technologies do which is why China asked for Russian help on its J-10 several european nations joined together to share technologies and they came out with the eurofighter typhoon Japan developed the F-2 in consultancy with the USA the Gripen uses many American systems only the USA and Russia can do everything on they're own France and Britain as well but USA and russia is at least 20 years ahead of everyone else in fighter jet technologies a barely industrialized nation like us still got the fighter to fly it took some time but hey we got experience and technological know how on fighters i see this as a positive thing however for your case you paid for half of a fighter project that is based on a soviet fighter design and all you get is manufacturing rights at some random dump factory not a gain what you guys are doing with JF-17 is what we did with Marut and Ajeet no offense

I am not denying that you didn't get knowledge from the project but stop calling it Indigenous if you used foreign consultancies and techs in your fighter

and i've already provided my sources for the Shivalik frigates being Indian now your just embarrassing yourself on here by brainlessly saying the Shivalik frigates were made in Russia

I base my opinions taking into consideration both sides of the picture ... I am not a blind patriot like you who think Brahmos can level fleets in seconds ... You dont ask the Nazi's the image of the Fuhrer do you ?

and global security really? the same as wikipedia what other peoples personal opinions on defense technologies are do not matter to me and funny thing is it says the same BS on the wikipedia page and the global security page obviously some insecure Pakistani with an inferiority complex is posting crap on those sites and i'm guessing it to be you since you keep on mindlessly bringing up 2 sites with the same posted info LOL get the reference for it (if it even exists) man you are one funny dimwit i have to admit

thats the funniest thing i have ever heard ... Wiki utilizes sites as source and Global security is one of them ... the same BS as wiki ? and i have never heard about Global security being edited by Pakistanis ... Its apparent that you consider every site which debunks Indian Indigenousness claims as false Grow up kid ! The world doesn't end at BR

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Why the hell were you lying earlier that economic crisis lost you 10 years in development ? Yes then dont call it INDIGENOUS if you imported tech from outside

I am not denying that you didn't get knowledge from the project but stop calling it Indigenous if you used foreign consultancies and techs in your fighter

I base my opinions taking into consideration both sides of the picture ... I am not a blind patriot like you who think Brahmos can level fleets in seconds ... You dont ask the Nazi's the image of the Fuhrer do you ?

thats the funniest thing i have ever heard ... Wiki utilizes many sites as source and Global security is one of them ... the same BS as wiki ? and i have never heard about Global security being edited by Pakistani ... Its apparent that you consider every site which debunks Indian Indigenousness claims as false Grow up kid ! The world doesn't end at BR

um idiot the fighter is indigenous 80% of the fighter is indigenous the FBW and everything else is indigenous the radar and engine for now are imported besides what the hell gives you a right to talk down to us? make something of your own then talk big seriously we've leagues ahead your obsession to compare yourself to us shows your inferiority complex

and when did i mention anything about BrahMos?

oh really then? here i am gonna put an end to this BS show me the reference for the crap you posted on Wikipedia and Global security please dude your so hilarious seriously i never seen anyone more desperate than you the fact that you still have not provided me a reference such as news article or naval press release that says Shivalik class frigates were designed by Russia still your embarrassing yourself just because you edited something and posted your own jealous crap on Wikipedia does not mean people with half a mind are going to believe it unless of course it has a reference which it does not so until you got a reference by a genuine source then talk and this adds on even more

INS Shivalik - India's indigenous stealth warship - YouTube

 

[Secur]

um idiot the fighter is indigenous 80% of the fighter is indigenous the FBW and everything else is indigenous the radar and engine for now are imported besides what the hell gives you a right to talk down to us? make something of your own then talk big seriously we've leagues ahead your obsession to compare yourself to us shows your inferiority complex

A plane who's engine , radars , avionics are imported from foreign countries and design consultancies provided by defense firms is not 80 % indigenous ! Are you aware what 80 % indigenousness would mean ?

oh really then? here i am gonna put an end to this BS show me the reference for the crap you posted on Wikipedia and Global security please dude your so hilarious seriously i never seen anyone more desperate than you the fact that you still have not provided me a reference such as news article or naval press release that says Shivalik class frigates were designed by Russia

Cut the crap ... Its ridiculous to say that I edit these sites to prove my personal idea ... Global Security is a credible site which is not editable and it has written many articles criticizing Pakistan too ... What other prove do you need ? All indian sites will be biased in favor of their warship ... Impartial / Unbiased international sources are the way to go but surely it means nothing to people like you who think Pakistanis post/edit articles on Wikipedia ... If such was the case we would have deleted every single Anti-Pakistan article on Wiki ... Is it the case ?

 

[danger007]

A plane who's engine , radars , avionics are imported from foreign countries and design consultancies provided by defense firms is not 80 % indigenous ! Are you aware what 80 % indigenousness would mean ?

Cut the crap ... Its ridiculous to say that I edit these sites to prove my personal idea ... Global Security is a credible site which is not editable and it has written many articles criticizing Pakistan too ... What other prove do you need ? All indian sites will be biased in favor of their warship ... Impartial / Unbiased international sources are the way to go but surely it means nothing to people like you who think Pakistanis post/edit articles on Wikipedia ... If such was the case we would have deleted every single Anti-Pakistan article on Wiki ... Is it the case ?

atleast we are getting weapons on our own money and you people getting on soft loans, free aid's, please don't forget you can't even build own chopper, and you are going to talk about India's ability, how pity....... The JF-17 is powered by a single Russian Klimov RD-93 turbofan engine,
Rather than using the Ada programming language, which is optimised for military applications, the software is written using the popular civilian C++ programming language to better utilise the large number of civilian software programmers available.

i think you people tried for french avionics, RADARS but u didn't get it. stop non-sense, C++ programmed fighter

 

[IND151]

LOL, that is why we won't agree. Different perspectives.

Anyway, I have no issue with India arming itself. They are sending their hard earned money to the West, in order to buy all that hardware, which means they have less money to invest in making their economy more competitive.

unfortunately (for you ) its not true.

we spend only 2.4% of GDP on defense.

as a dialoge in "Guru" says " agar log tumpe ungli utha rahe ho to samjlena tum tarraki kar rahey ho.( if people criticize you you should realize you are making progress.")

 

[LiberalAtheist]

A plane who's engine , radars , avionics are imported from foreign countries and design consultancies provided by defense firms is not 80 % indigenous ! Are you aware what 80 % indigenousness would mean ?

Cut the crap ... Its ridiculous to say that I edit these sites to prove my personal idea ... Global Security is a credible site which is not editable and it has written many articles criticizing Pakistan too ... What other prove do you need ? All indian sites will be biased in favor of their warship ... Impartial / Unbiased international sources are the way to go but surely it means nothing to people like you who think Pakistanis post/edit articles on Wikipedia ... If such was the case we would have deleted every single Anti-Pakistan article on Wiki ... Is it the case ?

the radar maybe imported same with the engine but we sure as hell did more for the LCA than you guys did for JF-17 besides the radar and engine will soon be indigenous those are the LCA MK1 standards which is pretty much complete other than some IOC tests and the avionics are Indian EW suite called Mayavi (illusionist) is an Indian EW suite developed by DARE of the DRDO the fighter is 80% indigenous everything except radar and engine is imported even the ejection seat is made locally in India soon the 80% will become 90 then 100 once Kaveri is ready



i don't care about your excuses either provide a reference or be quiet Wikipedia and GS is not reliable half of the crap on Wikipedia comes from GS and vice-versa since you cannot provide a reference this proves that you are desperate to smear indigenous Indian defense technologies

 

[Yodhashakti]

i can't stop laughing at you going to wikipedia and chaning the description on the page oh your a funny troll

your going to wikipedia and telling me the name of another ship trying to boast on how the Shivalik class frigate is not indigenous i seriously do not understand what makes you so obsessed and desperate to change sources so both the Talwar and Shivalilk frigates are from the Krivak III frigates? which is why the Talwar and Shivalik classes do not even look the same? i can't stop laughing at you going to

if Wikipedia is all you got to back up your baseless claims then there's really no point of me responding to you get an actual source whats funny is your trying to tell me Shivalik class frigates were made by Russia which is why they are being built at Mazogon Docks and in the future at GRSE

and yes for you Wikipedia is credible whatever Pakistani vandals type on there makes you feel better about yourself provide a reliable source then talk mkay?

i don't care about your excuses either provide a reference or be quiet Wikipedia and GS is not reliable half of the crap on Wikipedia comes from GS and vice-versa since you cannot provide a reference this proves that you are desperate to smear indigenous Indian defense technologies

Seriously Dude ! You need a psychologist You dont have a **** idea about what you are talking !!!

Calling Wikipedia and Global Security as biased what the **** do you think you are ?

I dont think somebody would edit it in a moment to prove his point ... I have seen this page 10's of times with the same message as the person posted

You have no freaking idea how Wikipedia works and how it uses sites as a source and Global security is one of them

BTW how can he edit Global Security ? Yes its a credible site which has posted hundreds of articles against Pakistan too

If you rely on biased Govt sites to feed your blind patriotism then you deserve to be lied

How exactly can we build a stealth frigate without foreign assistance if we have no former experience with it ? HOW ?

If you are debating for the sake of debating , then i think you better stop now !

You are embarrassing us by your childish remarks

@ Secur

I know it was built with foreign assistance but isn't it a step towards indigenization ?

With steps like these , we will surely make these systems indigenously after some time !

 

[blackops]

Guys WTF its not a tejas topic but about IN n PLAN so get back to topic

 

[Secur]

@ Secur

I know it was built with foreign assistance but isn't it a step towards indigenization ?

With steps like these , we will surely make these systems indigenously after some time !

Bro nobody's denying that its a massive know how for Indian ship building industry ... They surely have learned a lot which will be beneficial in the future ... The same goes for LCA too
But calling it Indigenous when it was built in collaboration with Russia ? Blind Patriotism can take you no where

Guys WTF its not a tejas topic but about IN n PLAN so get back to topic

Bro some people have a very nasty habit of dragging Pakistan into every thread.. Check out the last few pages and you will see who started to derail the thread