Asad Umar: Malaysia interested in procuring JF-17 Thunder from Pakistan

[ACE OF THE AIR]

You miss the point, if it's a plain product buy than it's J-10.
If Pakistan offer 100% flight control software and other tech transfer, than Iranians may consider jFT, otherwise they don't like to trade with Pakistan.

In an other thread I had mentioned this..R

Reproduced post 163
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran-considers-jf-17-thunder-purchase-from-pakistan.588984/page-11

Lets be Realistic here..

The Iranians have to replace their entire fleet. Over the years they have somehow made the F-5's locally by reverse engineering them but the engine technology was sold by the USA at the time of Shah. They can not improve further as the best they could do was the AZARAKASH fighter bomber which had a Twin Tail configuration.

However they have stopped its production due to lack of advanced radar technology.

A few days back there was an article that IRAN is interested in procuring the J-10 which would offer them a range which not even the F-14's can offer. The Russians are not interested in supplying them the SU-30's at the present time.

The European countries that are most likely to sell them are France and Italy. But they know it would be very difficult to fulfill any commitments because of USA.

Now the only solution is to procure something from China so both JF-17 and J-10's are being considered.

110-150 J-10 + 250-300 JF-17 would be an ideal high low mix with the locally produced aircraft to effectively deny any attack.

If I may remember correctly @Oscar you did play a scenario where GCC invades Iran and the outcome was not very good in regards with GCC. Could you do something like that with Iran having J-10's and JF-17's along with the migs and Su's.

 

[LeGenD]

A single F22 can only handle jets according to the number of missile it can carry in its internal bay after that how will it kill with spoons?

Same is true for any aircraft. Wait, F-22A will handle some more with bullets as well, LOL.

Conventional comparison of payload capacity of each:-

JF-17 Thunder Block II
Payload capacity = 3400 KG
Payload hardpoints = 7
EXTERNAL only

JF-17 Thunder Block III
Payload capacity = 4300 KG
Payload hardpoints = 9
EXTERNAL only

F-22A Raptor
Payload capacity = 15000 KG (BEAST MODE); 4500 KG (VLO MODE)
Payload hardpoints = 12
INTERNAL and EXTERNAL (BEAST MODE)

5th gen is not a jet it is a doctrine of war fare.

Finally a good statement.

 

[JohnWick]

Jf-17 is a very mouth watering option because of it being multi role, low price, low operational cost and versatility of weapons. Plus advance avionics, data link option, mission control in air via jf-17 B. Air to air refueling provides it very high air time. Modular design reduces maintenance cost and time. Sorties turn around time is very low, same jet can be back in air with in no time. So these all things JF-17 a war work horse.

Watch the fkin video of dig fights. I just posted.

Same is true for any aircraft. Wait, F-22A will handle some more with bullets as well, LOL.

Conventional comparison of payload capacity of each:-

JF-17 Thunder Block II
Payload capacity = 3400 KG
Payload hardpoints = 7
EXTERNAL only

JF-17 Thunder Block III
Payload capacity = 4300 KG
Payload hardpoints = 9
EXTERNAL only

F-22A Raptor
Payload capacity = 15000 KG (BEAST MODE); 4500 KG (VLO MODE)
Payload hardpoints = 12
INTERNAL and EXTERNAL (BEAST MODE)


Finally a good statement.

Hey watch the video I just posted above.

 

[BHarwana]

Same is true for any aircraft. Wait, F-22A will handle some more with bullets as well, LOL.

Conventional comparison of payload capacity of each:-

JF-17 Thunder Block II
Payload capacity = 3400 KG
Payload hardpoints = 7
EXTERNAL only

JF-17 Thunder Block III
Payload capacity = 4300 KG
Payload hardpoints = 9
EXTERNAL only

F-22A Raptor
Payload capacity = 15000 KG (BEAST MODE); 4500 KG (VLO MODE)
Payload hardpoints = 12
INTERNAL and EXTERNAL (BEAST MODE)


Finally a good statement.

That is what I am saying F-22 in beast mode is no more stealth so it loses its advantage with external weapons. In end it all comes to how many jets and how many missile you have in air and in number game jf-17 will always win.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Watch the fkin video of dig fights. I just posted.


Hey watch the video I just posted above.

What ever that video is saying is that 5th Gen are not supposed to get involved WVR conflicts but will remain far away fire BVR or UBVR missiles and leave even before they are tracked.

 

[LeGenD]

Hey watch the video I just posted above.

Thanks for sharing.

I know a thing or two about aircraft in general (I have seen some up close and studied). My POV is that people should not talk about aircraft without understanding their mechanisms and how they function.

In this thread, it came down to a comparison between F-22A Raptor and JF-17 Thunder Blocks - this is downright insulting to both aircraft because these are entirely different classes.

JF-17 Thunder is a low-cost alternative to 3rd generation and 4th generation fighter Jets around the world, with a decent set-of-abilities in its price range. It have its appeal and sales pitch. Comparisons with NATO standard options is not advisable.

A country (customer) does not necessarily try to buy the best Jet out there - its choices are grounded on many factors including politics. JF-17 Thunder can replace aging fleets of many a countries, and political strings are also low.

 

[JohnWick]

What ever that video is saying is that 5th Gen are not supposed to get involved WVR conflicts but will remain far away fire BVR or UBVR missiles and leave even before they are tracked.

Watch out. Full

 

[BHarwana]

What ever that video is saying is that 5th Gen are not supposed to get involved WVR conflicts but will remain far away fire BVR or UBVR missiles and leave even before they are tracked.

The problem with BVR is that they have low hit probability. They are good against refueling planes and early warnings but not with fighter jets which are maneuverable. The hit probability reduces.

 

[LeGenD]

That is what I am saying F-22 in beast mode is no more stealth so it loses its advantage with external weapons. In end it all comes to how many jets and how many missile you have in air and in number game jf-17 will always win.

It still does not loose much because its avionics + sensor suite + maneuverability + firepower, continue to be a virtually unparalleled combo (much ahead than anything out there).

VLO is a big characteristic (a design philosophy in itself). However, F-22A Raptor is a MONSTER in BEAST MODE as well, and it will take me a while to explain how.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Thanks for sharing.

I understand a lot about aircraft in general (I have seen some up close and studied). My POV is that people should not talk about aircraft without understanding their mechanisms and how they function.

In this thread, it came down to a comparison between F-22A Raptor and JF-17 Thunder Blocks - this is downright insulting to both aircraft because these are entirely different classes.

JF-17 Thunder is a low-cost alternative to 3rd generation and 4th generation fighter Jets around the world, with a decent set of abilities. It have its appeal and sales pitch. Comparisons with NATO standard options is not advisable.

A country (customer) does not try to buy the best Jet out there - its choices are grounded on many factors including politics. JF-17 Thunder can replace aging fleets of many a countries, and political strings are also low.

My friend the issue is not how capable an aircraft is. It depends on what situation is created up in the skies at that time. Now it could be either of the two who has a kill.

In simulated flights it is even possible that an F-22 be killed by a F-7 but how often this situation can be created falls on the tactics.

 

[BHarwana]

It still does not loose much because its avionics + sensor suite + maneuverability + firepower, continue to be a virtually unparalleled combo (much ahead than anything out there).

VLO is a big characteristic (a design philosophy in itself). However, F-22A Raptor is a MONSTER in BEAST MODE as well, and it will take me a while to explain how.

I don't need your explanation I already know what F-22 is and in war when rockets lock on to you every beast becomes a prey. In beast mode su-35 and F15 and F-16 are far more superior than F-22.

Because it is no more stealth and that is a different domain.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The problem with BVR is that they have low hit probability. They are good against refueling planes and early warnings but not with fighter jets which are maneuverable. The hit probability reduces.

Yes but with satellite and infra red sensors they have greatly improved kill ratio. ULRBVR are still under development hence they would require time to mature till then no one can fully say how good they might be. However what ever the Chinese have done with their LRBVR missiles is leaps ahead.

 

[LeGenD]

My friend the issue is not how capable an aircraft is. It depends on what situation is created up in the skies at that time. Now it could be either of the two who has a kill.

In simulated flights it is even possible that an F-22 be killed by a F-7 but how often this situation can be created falls on the tactics.

Tactics and strategies evolve along with platforms, bro.

For instance, a pilot of F-35A will have to come to terms with its phenomenal 'situational awareness' capabilities if he is new to this aircraft (how to digest so much information and automation? WTH is this? Sci-Fi?), and then slowly but surely establish his game. F-35A does so much on its own that it gives lot of room to its pilot to think and strategize instead of worrying about managing the systems onboard. This aircraft is equipped to fight in any situation at any time.

Aircraft like F-22A Raptor and F-35 variants literally CREATE and DICTATE situations in a modern battlespace; they are so much ahead of their contemporaries in technologies and resultant capabilities.

I don't need your explanation I already know what F-22 is and in war when rockets lock on to you every beast becomes a prey. In beast mode su-35 and F15 and F-16 are far more superior than F-22.

Because it is no more stealth and that is a different domain.

Problem is that you do not know much this stuff, and just making blanket assumptions. You have yet to respond to payload arguments in a proper way. Start from here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran...jf-17-fighter-jet.589318/page-4#post-10980182

In beast mode SU-35, F15 and F-16 are far more superior than F-22A? Like seriously? Do you know anything about T/W ratio of these aircraft let alone anything else?

It is wise to leave a discussion in which you do not excel or understand much.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Tactics and strategies evolve along with platforms, bro.

For instance, a pilot of F-35A will have to come to terms with its phenomenal 'situational awareness' capabilities if he is new to this aircraft (how to digest so much information and automation? WTH is this? Sci-Fi?), and then slowly but surely establish his game. F-35A does so much on its own that it gives lot of room to its pilot to think and strategize instead of worrying about managing the systems onboard. This aircraft is equipped to fight in any situation at any time.

Aircraft like F-22A Raptor and F-35 variants literally CREATE and DICTATE situations in a modern battlespace; they are so much ahead of their contemporaries in technologies and resultant capabilities.


Problem is that you do not know much and just throwing statements around without adequate homework. You have yet to respond to payload arguments in a proper way.

In beast mode SU-35, F15 and F-16 are far more superior than F-22? Like seriously?

Bro you mixing up... You are only looking at what a pilot feals in a new aircraft. This is a very short term problem 10-12 hrs maximum. What I was trying to tell was the tactics of interception and engaging the opponent in a WVR. These are all based on prior training and battle scenarios.

 

[BHarwana]

Tactics and strategies evolve along with platforms, bro.

For instance, a pilot of F-35A will have to come to terms with its phenomenal 'situational awareness' capabilities if he is new to this aircraft (how to digest so much information and automation? WTH is this? Sci-Fi?), and then slowly but surely establish his game. F-35A does so much on its own that it gives lot of room to its pilot to think and strategize instead of worrying about managing the systems onboard. This aircraft is equipped to fight in any situation at any time.

Aircraft like F-22A Raptor and F-35 variants literally CREATE and DICTATE situations in a modern battlespace; they are so much ahead of their contemporaries in technologies and resultant capabilities.


Problem is that you do not know much this stuff, and just making blanket assumptions. You have yet to respond to payload arguments in a proper way. Start from here: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran...jf-17-fighter-jet.589318/page-4#post-10980182

In beast mode SU-35, F15 and F-16 are far more superior than F-22A? Like seriously? Do you anything about T/W ratio of these aircraft let alone anything else?

It is wise to leave a discussion in which you do not excel or understand much.

The bigger problem is that this thread is not about F-22 and you are trying to be a very sticky fly here. Now you have explained a lots about all superior F-22 which has yet to score and air to air kill in a wrong thread so stop being a US apologist and don't derail. The thread I can feel the jealousy and have give you your chance but sorry bro all we have are stories about F-22 from you don't need paper tigers.