Asad Umar: Malaysia interested in procuring JF-17 Thunder from Pakistan

[alphapak]

Iran is close with India after handing over Chahbahar Port to India.
Then what follows is people like Kulbhosan visiting Pak. I think Pakistan
will think have to think many times before selling fighter jets to Iran.

 

[LeGenD]

Bro you mixing up... You are only looking at what a pilot feals in a new aircraft. This is a very short term problem 10-12 hrs maximum. What I was trying to tell was the tactics of interception and engaging the opponent in a WVR. These are all based on prior training and battle scenarios.

No, it does not take 10 - 12 hours maximum to come to terms with the avionics + sensor systems of F-35 variants and F-22A because their architectures and levels of automation feel much different from norm. Numerous pilots have pointed out as much. Training - lots of it - is a must with any modern platform.

Nevertheless, if the gap between two machines (aircraft) is too massive, then piloting skills become almost useless. F-22A Raptor have extraordinary maneuverability and target acquisition capabilities which will make a fight with an F-7 PG completely unfair even in WVR scenario. The aircraft will obtain a lock on the F-7 PG on its own from far away and even in WVR situation, and tempt the pilot to press the button.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

In beast mode SU-35, F15 and F-16 are far more superior than F-22A? Like seriously? Do you anything about T/W ratio of these aircraft let alone anything else?

He is not a technical expert so it would be impossible to understand.

It would be far easier if non technical language is used...In other words:
F22 or any other aircraft in beast mode will produce a higher radar signature hence will be visible earlier than what it should be in clean configuration. Now if the aircraft is detected then weapons or pay load it is caring would make the difference, this does not indicate that if the opponent has a tactical advantage can not kill irrespective you have what not you are dead if the other aircraft is at your 6.

 

[LeGenD]

The bigger problem is that this thread is not about F-22 and you are trying to be a very sticky fly here. Now you have explained a lots about all superior F-22 which has yet to score and air to air kill in a wrong thread so stop being a US apologist and don't derail. The thread I can feel the jealousy and have give you your chance but sorry bro all we have are stories about F-22 from you don't need paper tigers.

Please do not deflect and accuse me of derailing a discussion. I did not bring F-22 Raptor in this.

Just don't talk about aircraft if you do not know much. I just conveyed a small statement of conventional wisdom and you turned into an argument. Understand that this is a discussion form and people will address your statements if they are WRONG.

 

[BHarwana]

Please do not deflect and accuse me or derailing a discussion. I did not bring F-22 Raptor in it.

Just don't talk about aircraft if you do not know much. I just conveyed a small statement of conventional wisdom and you turned into an argument.

I know very much but thread is about sales of aircrafts not for fan boy praises. F-22 is not a good jet that is why no one bought it.
This thread is not about F-22 so please quit it.

 

[LeGenD]

I know very much but thread is about sales of aircrafts not for fan boy praises. F-22 is not a good jet that is why no one bought it.
This thread is not about F-22 so please quit it.

Another gem from you.

F-22A Raptor is not for SALE, genius. Everybody is not a fanboy, you gullible individual.

He is not a technical expert so it would be impossible to understand.

It would be far easier if non technical language is used...In other words:
F22 or any other aircraft in beast mode will produce a higher radar signature hence will be visible earlier than what it should be in clean configuration. Now if the aircraft is detected then weapons or pay load it is caring would make the difference, this does not indicate that if the opponent has a tactical advantage can not kill irrespective you have what not you are dead if the other aircraft is at your 6.

I am normally respectful to him in almost any discussion (He is a fellow Pakistani). My initial responses to him, in this very thread, are straightforward and up to the point.

However, EGO is an issue. Some people - when proven wrong [time and again] in a particular topic - will just continue to respond and get defensive instead of learning. This is not a healthy habit. I am into technologies, management and history - in these topics, I can hold my own. And I teach actually.

In a forum, everybody thinks that he is a some genius, and that he should not be corrected (if wrong). I would gladly admit my mistake, if I am in the wrong about anything. Happened sometimes.

 

[BHarwana]

Another gem from you.

F-22A Raptor is not for SALE, genius. Everybody is not a fanboy, you gullible individual.


I am normally respectful to him in almost any discussion (He is a fellow Pakistani). My initial responses to him, in this very thread, are straightforward and up to the point.

However, EGO is an issue. Some people - when proven wrong time and again in a particular topic - will just continue to respond and get defensive instead of learning. This is not a healthy habit. I am into technologies, management and history - in these topics, I can hold my own. And I teach actually.

In a forum, everybody thinks that he is a some genius, and that he should not be corrected (if wrong). I would gladly admit my mistake, if I am in the wrong about anything. Happened sometimes.

This is not a F-22 thread plz go to your desired thread and discuss there. F-22 has not scored an air to air kill in 30 years, no nation has bought the jet, so how do we it is good just because you are saying so? Please give me a break and go to your desired thread. This thread is about jets being sold so please only talk about the jets here for sale.

 

[Big Tank]

Your Boss... right?

Yeah my boss and your nightmare

 

[Nilgiri]

In beast mode SU-35, F15 and F-16 are far more superior than F-22A? Like seriously? Do you know anything about T/W ratio of these aircraft let alone anything else?

Nope, everything is like tomatoes.

 

[MultaniGuy]

excellent news. we should do a research agreement with Malaysia. But not with Iran. Iran has bad relations with the west and is building chabahar with India.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

they both are light weight single engine multirole fighters.

Skodas and Lamborghinis are both single engine light weight cars.

 

[BHarwana]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1068166131012124674

 

[BATMAN]

What's wrong with PAC? Why don't they like Malaysia?

 

[LeGenD]

This is not a F-22 thread plz go to your desired thread and discuss there. F-22 has not scored an air to air kill in 30 years, no nation has bought the jet, so how do we it is good just because you are saying so? Please give me a break and go to your desired thread. This thread is about jets being sold so please only talk about the jets here for sale.

This is discussion forum, and there can be branch-offs in a discussion.

Do not take this exchange in a [you versus me] way, but take this exchange as a form of "learning." I believe that their are crafts in which you are more learned then me, but same is true in my case (I am well-versed in technologies, management and history).

Please tell me which particular statement [mine] is not correct? I am addressing your misconceptions actually, and in good faith. Take this as a learning.

F-22A Raptor is NOT FOR SALE. Numerous countries were willing to pay a hefty sum for it but US refused to sell it anyways. FYI: https://www.wired.com/2007/04/f22-not-for-sal/

US have a 'virtual substitute' for an actual battlefield in the globally renowned RED FLAG event.

"The Red Flag exercises, held periodically at Nellis Air Force Base since 1975, are very realistic aerial war games. The purpose is to give pilots from the U.S., NATO and other allied countries an opportunity to practice and refine their skills for real combat situations. This includes the use of "enemy" hardware and live ammunition for bombing exercises within the Nellis complex. The exercises with flares and all kinds of aircraft can make a spectacular show, especially at night. There are usually two sorties per day, Monday thru Friday: One sortie during daytime and one in the evening or at night."

Source: http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/flags.html

PG member (gambit) have served in USAF, and participated in RED FLAG exercises; he can offer unparalleled insight in regards to this event. F-22A (and F-35 variants) have dominated competition in RED FLAG events from time-to-time by far (this sound simple in words but this is a huge deal in reality).

USAF have made good use of F-22A in Syria to make sure that Russians do not cross a line there (DECONFLICT). FYI: http://aviationweek.com/defense/how-f-22-deconflicting-us-russia-operations-over-syria

---

Regarding JF-17 Thunder:-

Iran wanted to buy SU-30 from Russia originally, but American sanctions [on Iran] have ruined the prospects for this deal to materialize. Western markets are shut to Iran once again. Not sure if sales of JF-17 Thunder to Iran will go through (I doubt this).

Personally, I am cool with Iran buying JF-17 Thunder Block II (or Block III). Good for Pakistan in terms of business prospects and revenue.

JF-17 Thunder Block II (and Block III) have no peer in its price range [if this make you happy].

Look at this stuff in this way:

SAMSUNG J7 MAX = BUDGET
SAMSUNG A6+ = MID RANGE
SAMSUNG S9+ = HIGH END

Different classes of products from the same company, but SAMSUNG J7 MAX is sufficient for the needs of "many" around the world. It have its own market and appeal. There is no need to compare it to SAMSUNG A6+ and SAMSUNG S9+, because you will feel inadequate.

 

[BHarwana]

This is discussion forum, and there can be branch-offs in a discussion.

Do not take this exchange in a [you versus me] way, but take this exchange as a form of "learning." I believe that their are crafts in which you are more learned then me, but same is true in my case (I am well-versed in technologies, management and history).

Please tell me which particular statement [mine] is not correct? I am addressing your misconceptions actually, and in good faith. Take this as a learning.

F-22A Raptor is NOT FOR SALE. Numerous countries were willing to pay a hefty sum for it but US refused to sell it. FYI: https://www.wired.com/2007/04/f22-not-for-sal/

US also have a virtual substitute for an actual battlefield in RED FLAG exercises.

"The Red Flag exercises, held periodically at Nellis Air Force Base since 1975, are very realistic aerial war games. The purpose is to give pilots from the U.S., NATO and other allied countries an opportunity to practice and refine their skills for real combat situations. This includes the use of "enemy" hardware and live ammunition for bombing exercises within the Nellis complex. The exercises with flares and all kinds of aircraft can make a spectacular show, especially at night. There are usually two sorties per day, Monday thru Friday: One sortie during daytime and one in the evening or at night."

Source: http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/flags.html

PG member (gambit) have served in USAF and participated in RED FLAG exercises; he can offer unparalleled insight in this regard. F-22A (and F-35 variants) have dominated competition in RED FLAG events from time-to-time.

USAF have made good use of F-22A in Syria to make sure that Russians do not cross a line there (DECONFLICT). FYI: http://aviationweek.com/defense/how-f-22-deconflicting-us-russia-operations-over-syria

---

Regarding JF-17 Thunder:-

Iran wanted to buy SU-30 from Russia originally, but American sanctions [on Iran] have ruined the prospects for this deal to materialize. Western markets are shut to Iran once again. Not sure if sales of JF-17 Thunder to Iran will go through (I doubt this).

Personally, I am cool with Iran buying JF-17 Thunder Block II (or Block III). Good for Pakistan actually.

JF-17 Thunder Block II (and Block III) have no peer in its price range [if this make you happy].

Look at this stuff in this way:

SAMSUNG J7 MAX = BUDGET
SAMSUNG A6+ = MID RANGE
SAMSUNG S9+ = HIGH END

Different classes of products from the same company, but SAMSUNG J7 MAX is sufficient for the needs of "many" around the world. It have its own market and appeal.

There is a difference between branching and trolling. This thread is not related to F-22 because the jet was rejected by every country and not bought by one. This is about jet sales and specifically jf-17 so if you have any thing to add please contribute don't talk about discontinued project which have not seen any live air to air action. Here we are talking about jets that have made sales and taken air to air kills of any king and have been sold to some nations. I means successful jets.