As Turkey Chafes at Erdogan, He Gets Spikier Abroad

[Foinikas]

Whole world has seen our victories
keep crying


You pray for ERDOGAN that he spent around $100 billion for humanitarian aid instead of buying weapons in the last 10 years

Turkiye would buy Greek-İsraeli-Egyptian militaries combined for $100 billion

Sure kid,whatever you say.

 

[jamahir]

ERDOGAN 11 times warned ASSAD as friendly to make democratic reforms
otherwise USA-UK-France,The UAE,Sarabia will start civil war in Syria

What democratic reforms did ERDOGAN wanted Assad to make ?

But I agree that the Syrian Baath movement being a progressive movement, Assad should have turned Syria even more progressive by adopting for his country the actually democratic system that the Libyan Jamahiriya had which Venezuela also adopted :

Under Gaddafi’s unique system of direct democracy, traditional institutions of government were disbanded and abolished, and power belonged to the people directly through various committees and congresses.

Far from control being in the hands of one man, Libya was highly decentralized and divided into several small communities that were essentially “mini-autonomous States” within a State. These autonomous States had control over their districts and could make a range of decisions including how to allocate oil revenue and budgetary funds. Within these mini autonomous States, the three main bodies of Libya’s democracy were Local Committees, Basic People’s Congresses and Executive Revolutionary Councils.

The Basic People’s Congress (BPC), or Mu’tamar shaʿbi asāsi was essentially Libya’s functional equivalent of the House of Commons in the United Kingdom or the House of Representatives in the United States. However, Libya’s People’s Congress was not comprised merely of elected representatives who discussed and proposed legislation on behalf of the people; rather, the Congress allowed all Libyans to directly participate in this process. Eight hundred People’s Congresses were set up across the country and all Libyans were free to attend and shape national policy and make decisions over all major issues including budgets, education, industry, and the economy.

In 2009, Gaddafi invited the New York Times to Libya to spend two weeks observing the nation’s direct democracy. The New York Times, that has traditionally been highly critical of Colonel Gaddafi’s democratic experiment, conceded that in Libya, the intention was that

“everyone is involved in every decision…Tens of thousands of people take part in local committee meetings to discuss issues and vote on everything from foreign treaties to building schools.”

The fundamental difference between western democratic systems and the Libyan Jamahiriya’s direct democracy is that in Libya all citizens were allowed to voice their views directly – not in one parliament of only a few hundred wealthy politicians – but in hundreds of committees attended by tens of thousands of ordinary citizens. Far from being a military dictatorship, Libya under Mr. Gaddafi was Africa’s most prosperous democracy.

On numerous occasions Mr. Gaddafi’s proposals were rejected by popular vote during Congresses and the opposite was approved and enacted as legislation.

For instance, on many occasions Mr. Gaddafi proposed the abolition of capital punishment and he pushed for home schooling over traditional schools. However, the People’s Congresses wanted to maintain the death penalty and classic schools, and the will of the People’s Congresses prevailed. Similarly, in 2009, Colonel Gaddafi put forward a proposal to essentially abolish the central government altogether and give all the oil proceeds directly to each family. The People’s Congresses rejected this idea too.

For over four decades, Gaddafi promoted economic democracy and used the nationalized oil wealth to sustain progressive social welfare programs for all Libyans. Under Gaddafi’s rule, Libyans enjoyed not only free health-care and free education, but also free electricity and interest-free loans. Now thanks to NATO’s intervention the health-care sector is on the verge of collapse as thousands of Filipino health workers flee the country, institutions of higher education across the East of the country are shut down, and black outs are a common occurrence in once thriving Tripoli.

Unlike in the West, Libyans did not vote once every four years for a President and an invariably wealthy local parliamentarian who would then make all decisions for them. Ordinary Libyans made decisions regarding foreign, domestic and economic policy themselves.

America’s bombing campaign of 2011 has not only destroyed the infrastructure of Libya’s democracy, America has also actively promoted ISIS terror group leader Abdelhakim Belhadj whose organization is making the establishment of Libyan democracy impossible.

Does Turkey have this democratic system ?

But again I ask, why did Erdogan join the NATO+GCC+AQ+MB invasion of Syria if he was a friend of Assad ?

but sectarian ASSAD prefered to kill its own People with sectarian İran and İran backed terrorist groups instead of working with Turkiye

then ERDOGAN has started to protect sunni muslim civilians against sectarian ASSAD , İran , İran backed terrorist groups and Russia

Sectarian Assad ? When the "Syrian" "moderate rebels" bombed a Syrian government security services building in Damascus in 2012 half of the eight high-level officers killed were Sunni. Assad's wife is Sunni ! There was a Syrian member here, @Syrian Lion, who was Christian and supported Assad. On this YT channel he posted vids of the reality of the war. He's not been to the forum in some years, I hope he is okay.

EERDOGAN saved and protect around 12 millions of Syrians including 3,6 million Syrian refugees in Turkey

Wow ! ERDOGAN saved 12 million Syrians ? How ?

 

[Foinikas]

What democratic reforms did ERDOGAN wanted Assad to make ?

He probably wanted him to kick the Kurds,step down and hand over Aleppo to Turkey

w ! ERDOGAN saved 12 million Syrians ? How ?

Like this

 

[MMM-E]

Sure kid,whatever you say.

kid keep crying

 

[Foinikas]

kid keep crying

Turkey great power win all war,conquer planet ok.

 

[MMM-E]

But again I ask, why did Erdogan join the NATO+GCC+AQ+MB invasion of Syria if he was a friend of Assad ?

can you read or what ? I am saying again

because ASSAD has started killing its own People with İran and İran backed terrorist groups

What democratic reforms did ERDOGAN wanted Assad to make ?

so easy

to make real democratic elections in Syria as like in Turkey and in Germany

but since 1975 , dictatorial ASSAD Family rules Syria with İranian and Russian military helping

no democracy and no real democratic elections in Syria
10% Nusayr ( shia ) rules 80% sunni muslim population in Syria

Wow ! ERDOGAN saved 12 million Syrians ? How ?

3,6 -5 million Syrian refugees in Turkey
4 million Syrians in Idlib
and millions of Syrians in Turkish Army controlled areas in Syria

and Turkey spent over $50 billion for Syrians

 

[TNT]

You're talking about Gulf monarchies. Erdogan is supposed to be an elected leader of a supposedly democratic country of the modern world.


Saudi Arabia and Qatar mostly but also some from Kuwait and Bahrain. And guess who else helps them? Erdogan. Turkey's role in funding,arming and protecting salafi and hardcore sunni groups in Syria is very big. Also transporting jihadis from Libya to Syria,then Syria to Libya and then from both to Azerbaijan.


You had said at some point that you "don't really care". And that you didn't support either side. Back in a Cyprus thread and elsewhere.
It's normal that you as a Pakistani support Turkey,but ffs it's illogical to put them over Pakistan like some people do in this forum.


Why are you so upset? Is it because you are a Muslim Brotherhood fan? You support them? That would explain your Erdogan fanboyism and Hamas love


Lol. Just lol.

You are an ignorant fool who knows nothing. That is why i told u earlier to stfu. Do u even know that muslim brotherhood and salafis have a different sect? So either erdogan is an MB supporter or salafi supporter, cant be both because both are against each other. Shows u know nothing and just talking out of ur ***.
You keep going round in circles and dodging the main point, that is, those dictatorships are good and nice but elected erdogan is not?? Then u use excuse of democracy and human rights. It is because those dictators are western puppets, so dumb citizens like u are told they r good countries, and none of u morons ask them why those dictatorships are good. What Turkey and Erdogan is or supposed to be is not and will not be according to ur wishes or desires, why dont u imeciles get this point? Who tf r u ppl to judge? Stupid morons with ur stupid propaganda.

Who do you think tried to assassinate Nasser ? Who waged war against the sensible Syrian people in the 1980s ? Didn't I post a speech of Hafiz al Assad speaking about the MB ? Who became puppet of NATO in its 2011 regime-change operation against Bashar al Assad ?

As @Foinikas said, LOL just LOL.

Foinkas claim MB as anti west and enemy of west while u moron claim MB to be western tool. Popular uprising against dictatorship is not terrorism. Agan, what to expect from an idiot that think libya under Gaddafi was an ideal democracy LOL.

 

[Foinikas]

You are an ignorant fool who knows nothing. That is why i told u earlier to stfu. Do u even know that muslim brotherhood and salafis have a different sect? So either erdogan is an MB supporter or salafi supporter, cant be both because both are against each other. Shows u know nothing and just talking out of ur ***.

Different sect but somehow fight on the same side. You ignored that. American governments were not muslim,yet they used the mujahedin against the Russians. Gaddafi's Libya was not Shia,but helped Iran. Maronites were not Jewish but were helped by the Israelis.
Iran is not Sunni,but helped Bosnian Muslims who are sunni.

Shows you are fast to accuse and talk like an idiot.

ou keep going round in circles and dodging the main point, that is, those dictatorships are good and nice but elected erdogan is not?? Then u use excuse of democracy and human rights. It is because those dictators are western puppets, so dumb citizens like u are told they r good countries, and none of u morons ask them why those dictatorships are good. What Turkey and Erdogan is or supposed to be is not and will not be according to ur wishes or desires, why dont u imeciles get this point? Who tf r u ppl to judge? Stupid morons with ur stupid propaganda.

If you consider Erdogan a benevolent leader,that's your problem. The fact is he is acting like a problematic dictator. And that's how many world leaders see and treat him like. You want him to isolate Turkey? Fine,go ahead. But don't nag about "evil West". He's been going down the Saddam path.

 

[jamahir]

can you read or what ? I am saying again

because ASSAD has started killing its own People with İran and İran backed terrorist groups

So Assad started killing Syrian civilians and hence Erdogan joined NATO and GCC in enabling Al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood to also kill Syrian civilians ? Strange logic.

so easy

to make real democratic elections in Syria as like in Turkey and in Germany

but since 1975 , dictatorial ASSAD Family rules Syria

no democracy and no real democratic elections in Syria

Please read post# 48 on what Democracy actually is.

4 million Syrians in Idlib
and millions of Syrians in Turkish Army controlled areas in Syria

10% Nusayr ( shia ) rules 80% sunni muslim population in Syria

So the Syrian Sunni military persons and the Sunni wife of Bashar al Assad are oppressing the remainder Sunnis in Syria ?

 

[MMM-E]

So Assad started killing Syrian civilians and hence Erdogan joined NATO and GCC in enabling Al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood to also kill Syrian civilians ? Strange logic.

ERDOGAN has started to protect Syrian People against criminal ASSAAD , İran and İran backed terrorist groups

since 2013 Turkiye is fighting against USA-France-The UAE,S.Arabia in Syria

and Turkish Army entered Syria to fight ISIS , PKK/YPG Terror organizations ,, not against ASSAD

Please read post# 48 on what Democracy actually is.

Democracy actually is real elections as like in Turkey , in France , in India , in Germany , in USA , etc

So the Syrian Sunni military persons and the Sunni wife of Bashar al Assad are oppressing the remainder Sunnis in Syria ?

only a few person can not represent the 80% sunni population in Syria

needs real democracy to Syrian People to live like human
not criminal dictatorial ASSAD Family since 1975

 

[Foinikas]

ERDOGAN has started to protect Syrian People against criminal ASSAAD , İran and İran backed terrorist groups

since 2013 Turkiye is fighting against USA-France-The UAE,S.Arabia in Syria

and Turkish Army entered Syria to fight ISIS , PKK/YPG Terror organizations ,, not against ASSAD





Democracy actually is real elections as like in Turkey , in France , in India , in Germany , in USA , etc





only a few person can not represent the 80% sunni population in Syria

needs real democracy to Syrian People to live like human
not criminal dictatorial ASSAD Family since 1975

Oh no Syrians don't have freedom and America...err I mean Turkey has to come and free them. Turkey brave nation will save Syrians and conq...I mean liberate them from evil Essad ve Aleviler.

 

[jamahir]

Agan, what to expect from an idiot that think libya under Gaddafi was an ideal democracy LOL.

How wasn't Libya under guidance of Gaddafi a real democracy ?

How will you convince this Libyan girl who during the NATO+GCC bombardment in 2011 gave out that defiant message to Obomba, Bliar, Sarkozy and co. ?

How will you convince the Venezuelans who under the guidance of Hugo Chavez adapted the Libyan system for Venezuela ?

Democracy actually is real elections as like in Turkey , in France , in India , in Germany , in USA , etc

How ?

 

[TNT]

So Assad started killing Syrian civilians and hence Erdogan joined NATO and GCC in enabling Al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood to also kill Syrian civilians ? Strange logic.

I followed this conflict closely, i remember before russian intervention, assad was defeated, the capital was almost in hands of rebels. No one supported the rebels at tht time, maybe saudi. Then russia intervened and assad took back each city. Encircling it and using barrel bombs from helicopter. The only reason civilians were saved because there was one province where they could go. I am amazed how a person like u can ignore the mass killing of assad and before him his father. A shia dictator imposed on sunni civilians doesnt care abt their lives. If it wasnt for idlib, hundreds of thousands more would die. The protests turned ugly because asaad used force, something the Egyptian army avoided and acted smart.
But again, arguing with delusional commies is a waste of time, every commie country failed, yet delusional commies keep singing the same old songs.

 

[jamahir]

I followed this conflict closely, i remember before russian intervention, assad was defeated, the capital was almost in hands of rebels. No one supported the rebels at tht time, maybe saudi. Then russia intervened and assad took back each city. Encircling it and using barrel bombs from helicopter. The only reason civilians were saved because there was one province where they could go. I am amazed how a person like u can ignore the mass killing of assad and before him his father. A shia dictator imposed on sunni civilians doesnt care abt their lives. If it wasnt for idlib, hundreds of thousands more would die. The protests turned ugly because asaad used force, something the Egyptian army avoided and acted smart.
But again, arguing with delusional commies is a waste of time, every commie country failed, yet delusional commies keep singing the same old songs.

It is you singing the same old songs. Multiple posts by me and @Foinikas were about explanation to you of the reality behind the events and systems in Libya, Syria and Egypt yet you stubbornly don't answer them rationally.

But can you please answer post# 87 ?

 

[Foinikas]

I followed this conflict closely, i remember before russian intervention, assad was defeated, the capital was almost in hands of rebels. No one supported the rebels at tht time, maybe saudi. Then russia intervened and assad took back each city. Encircling it and using barrel bombs from helicopter. The only reason civilians were saved because there was one province where they could go. I am amazed how a person like u can ignore the mass killing of assad and before him his father. A shia dictator imposed on sunni civilians doesnt care abt their lives. If it wasnt for idlib, hundreds of thousands more would die. The protests turned ugly because asaad used force, something the Egyptian army avoided and acted smart.
But again, arguing with delusional commies is a waste of time, every commie country failed, yet delusional commies keep singing the same old songs.

If you followed it at the time,you'd have known two things:

1.The SAA was pressed and fighting on all sides,but the capital was not on the verge of collapse. Aleppo was,yes,but not Damascus.
2.There was no point in the war where "noone supported the rebels". The rebels were supported by Saudi Arabia,Qatar and Turkey from the beginning.

You are amazed by Jamahir's support for Assad,however I am not amazed by your hate for Assad. Because I know you are one of those who believe the traditional islamist(not islamic,islamist) Sunni narration of "evil Assad,good freedom fighters". It's the standard narration in Turkey and Gulf monarchies. While Syria was not the perfect democracy,far from it of course,it had been one of the safest and most beautiful countries in the Middle-East to visit. And what do I mean beautiful? I mean,people lived peacefully,there was a lot of culture,museums,entertainment,tolerance for other religions and a good life. Basically in Syria you could do ANYTHING except challenge the government. That was the rule. You can have fun,you do and say whatever you like BUT...don't challenge the authority of the Assad family and don't be a traitor.

Syria was one of the LEAST sectarian countries,even with the Alawis in power. Yes. The only one you CANNOT accuse of being sectarian is the government during the war. The government had and has a lot of support from patriotic Sunnis. Not just Alawis,Christians and Druze.

The protests turned ugly not only because the government,yes,used force to supress them initially,but because there was also firing against the government forces,ambushes of military and police and apparently from the early stages of this uprising,there were armed gangs and groups among the protesters. It was a repeat of the early '80s Muslim Brotherhood attacks.

However,soon Saudi Arabia,Qatar,Turkey and some NATO countries rushed to support these armed groups and rebel soldiers who defected from the army. Turkey played a major role there by transporting volunteers from Libya,providing weapons,money and safe haven to these rebels.

Now,since you said you "followed" the war closely,you should have known all that. Apparently you only stuck on the typical Western media narration of "Assad gasses his own people". It's not late to check it out and change your mind. Not completely,but even just a bit. To say "hey,what's going on here,some things don't add up".