As the Hajj begins, the destruction of Mecca's heritage continues

[jaibi]

What are you trying to say, sir? I've read these posts before. The argument is that the Grand Mosque needs expansion and thus we must bulldoze the surrounding area. Fine. Then why do you deem it fit to construct hotels there? Is history given the price of comfort? Secondly, as I have said the Saudi government has repeatedly stopped professionals from branding key zones in the city as historically significant which is usually a precursor to being declared heritage sites. I've posted a link above, please refer to it. It would hurt no one if we all just look at things from a more balanced perspective.

Sure, but be ware that all reports are similar, so just think of it more like of a copy paste. At any rate here are some reports which covered phase 1 of the expansion.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.con&contentid=20131012183490

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.con&contentid=20130307155772

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/spe...-project-s-first-phase-opens-during-hajj.html

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/spe...of-the-developments-of-the-grand-mosque-.html




Well, I serve my country, but I didn't take your comments seriously. I was just flipping with you



The Ashraf remains the master of their house, keep in mind that they're the gate keepers

But some of you chose to put their faith in the wrong person, it was all but over for your kinds ever since we purified and united our land ..

 

[jaibi]

Please re-read my posts from the start and very slowly. I never mentioned any city, any site. I just talked about heritage generally, the sources I cited talk about the generic treatment, yes, Makkah is taken into account in special focus. It is not limited to it.

Secondly, your argument is based on defaming the source: you are trying to say that as I am not an expert I should keep mum. That's not really addressing the premise, is it? Do you know how to argue logically? You do have to prove that?

Thirdly, it's clear you have not a sense of history as a profession. Just because something is old does not make it a 'heritage', that status requires a proper historiography, sir, read about the process. For someone who claims I do not know about the land you clearly demonstrate low knowledge of the subject with which you are trying to argue with me.

Fourthly, you stated in your post that Saudi Arabia is your house and I should stick to my nation. Re-read, please, go slow, you seem to skip through words. I answered that.

Lastly, heritage is decided upon by experts trained in the field whether within or outside of Makkah. I'm surprised how hard you are trying to gain the upper hand here. At least stick to one methodology.

@jaibi

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. The heritage you talk about is limited to the subsequent area next to Masjid al-Haram in Makkah. And that's about it. Makkah is one town/city/village out of thousands in KSA as important as it is. What have I to proof? Anyone who just know anything about my country, it seem you certainly don't know much given your posts and I doubt that you ever stepped on the land, will testify to the rich heritage of KSA that is still visible even in the smallest of villages. Be it in the deep mountains, deep deserts, lowlands, steppes, coastal areas, islands etc. The thread I guided you to testify to those facts by providing hundreds of photos of that heritage that you choose to ignore.

You can voice your opinion all you want. Who stopped you from doing it? Did I stop you? I am just saying that you should stick to issues that you know something about. I clearly demonstrated that you did not on this specific issue.

Besides there is plenty of heritage in Makkah and its outskirts.

I've no problem, sir, if you shut your eyes and ears and pretend your sources are not just as political

Chao and be in peace

I just presented you with information as well as a summary of project phase 1 my friend, given facts from those who were in charge of the ENTIRE expansion project. There is no way on earth that someone would know better than these people, especially when these information came from the web of which most are being politicized to such extent.

However, as I always say, You are entitled to believe in whatever you believe in.

And Since I've documented all facts needed to legitimize my argument, there is no need for carrying the discussion any further.



Chao

 

[al-Hasani]

Please re-read my posts from the start and very slowly. I never mentioned any city, any site. I just talked about heritage generally, the sources I cited talk about the generic treatment, yes, Makkah is taken into account in special focus. It is not limited to it.

Secondly, your argument is based on defaming the source: you are trying to say that as I am not an expert I should keep mum. That's not really addressing the premise, is it? Do you know how to argue logically? You do have to prove that?

Thirdly, it's clear you have not a sense of history as a profession. Just because something is old does not make it a 'heritage', that status requires a proper historiography, sir, read about the process. For someone who claims I do not know about the land you clearly demonstrate low knowledge of the subject with which you are trying to argue with me.

Fourthly, you stated in your post that Saudi Arabia is your house and I should stick to my nation. Re-read, please, go slow, you seem to skip through words. I answered that.

Lastly, heritage is decided upon by experts trained in the field whether within or outside of Makkah. I'm surprised how hard you are trying to gain the upper hand here. At least stick to one methodology.

Well you talk about issues you know very little about. How many times do I need to repeat myself? Consult the links I gave you and see for yourself. Your only examples were from the subsequent area next to the Masjid al-Haram. Which has already been discussed for an eternity here in this thread and elsewhere.

In fact KSA is now encouraging archaeologists from across the Arab world and outside of it to make field work which great success since only like 0,1% of KSA has been excavated by archeologist and because the Arabian Peninsula is an ancient area with an important role in human history and that of Semitic civilizations. This summer a big exhibition of Arab/Semitic historical artifacts found in what is now KSA has been displayed in USA with big crowds.

You made a baseless claim about my country not caring about its heritage which is completely false and I and others provided sources that dispute that claim. Instead you kept talking about the subsequent areas next to the Masjid al-Haram which only make a tiny, tiny, tiny part of KSA despite is enormous importance. What you are left with is the subsequent areas of Masjid al-Haram and some non-original columns that have been removed and that are now stored in a museum in Makkah about the history of the hajj. So much for that claim.

I guess this is also all pure show:

Alriyadh Newspaper: Photo News - Saudi Archaeological Exhibition in Pittsburgh

Plaque, ca. 3rd–2nd century BC, Bronze, B: 17.5 cm, H: 15.5 cm, locality: Qaryat al-Faw

Tayma ancient city once part of the Babylonian empire and a exodus for one Babylonian king.

Al Ula old town العلا - Saudi Arabia by Eric Lafforgue, on Flickr


Madain Saleh by Tozz, on Flickr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRat8xLYsH8&feature=player_embedded

Foreign teams to study 15 Saudi archaeological sites | Arab News

And all that above is only from one relatively small area (compared to the big size of KSA) of Northern Hijaz.

It does not strike me as a country that neglects or does not care about its heritage. Rather the opposite in this day and age. The criticism might have been more sane/relevant if it was put forward just 30 years ago. Have there been neglect? Of course and unfortunately like anywhere in the ME. Is very little still yet to be excavated? Indeed.

Now I don't think that I have the time nor the will to keep this discussion going since you seem to ignore simple facts.

 

[HAIDER]

Sure, but be ware that all reports are similar, so just think of it more like of a copy paste. At any rate here are some reports which covered phase 1 of the expansion.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.con&contentid=20131012183490

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.con&contentid=20130307155772

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/spe...-project-s-first-phase-opens-during-hajj.html

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/spe...of-the-developments-of-the-grand-mosque-.html




Well, I serve my country, but I didn't take your comments seriously. I was just flipping with you



The Ashraf remains the master of their house, keep in mind that they're the gate keepers

But some of you chose to put their faith in the wrong person, it was all but over for your kinds ever since we purified and united our land ..

Historically arab revelry run through generations....its never end, till the last one dead. Its not part of religion, its part of history and written by arab historian. And present day wars still show the hate and barbarianism among arab for their enemies.
Slaughtering enemy, slitting throats, putting head on the lance. eating organs etc etc...what it proves.

 

[HAIDER]

Well you talk about issues you know very little about. How many times do I need to repeat myself? Consult the links I gave you and see for yourself. Your only examples were from the subsequent area next to the Masjid al-Haram. Which has already been discussed for an eternity here in this thread and elsewhere.

In fact KSA is now encouraging archaeologists from across the Arab world and outside of it to make field work which great success since only like 0,1% of KSA has been excavated by archeologist and because the Arabian Peninsula is an ancient area with an important role in human history and that of Semitic civilizations. This summer a big exhibition of Arab/Semitic historical artifacts found in what is now KSA has been displayed in USA with big crowds.

You made a baseless claim about my country not caring about its heritage which is completely false and I and others provided sources that dispute that claim. Instead you kept talking about the subsequent areas next to the Masjid al-Haram which only make a tiny, tiny, tiny part of KSA despite is enormous importance. What you are left with is the subsequent areas of Masjid al-Haram and some non-original columns that have been removed and that are now stored in a museum in Makkah about the history of the hajj. So much for that claim.

I guess this is also all pure show:

Alriyadh Newspaper: Photo News - Saudi Archaeological Exhibition in Pittsburgh

Plaque, ca. 3rd–2nd century BC, Bronze, B: 17.5 cm, H: 15.5 cm, locality: Qaryat al-Faw

Tayma ancient city once part of the Babylonian empire and a exodus for one Babylonian king.

Al Ula old town العلا - Saudi Arabia by Eric Lafforgue, on Flickr


Madain Saleh by Tozz, on Flickr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRat8xLYsH8&feature=player_embedded

Foreign teams to study 15 Saudi archaeological sites | Arab News

And all that above is only from one relatively small area (compared to the big size of KSA) of Northern Hijaz.

It does not strike me as a country that neglects or does not care about its heritage. Rather the opposite in this day and age. The criticism might have been more sane/relevant if it was put forward just 30 years ago. Have there been neglect? Of course and unfortunately like anywhere in the ME. Is very little still yet to be excavated? Indeed.

Now I don't think that I have the time nor the will to keep this discussion going since you seem to ignore simple facts.

Thanks Alhasani you are true Hijazi who love the history and heritage ...please persuade the royals too...save the heritage.

 

[jaibi]

@al-Hassan that exibition is called 'Gateways to Arabia', it was held in the US. The Archeolgists that wanted to visit your nation were told no. There's also a Times article about it. Indeed, seeing I'm talking to an ignorant national who would think that citing sources is pasting pictures and his own authority is enough to argue. Learn some ways to argue (Philosophy) then tag me up.

 

[al-Hasani]

Exploring the Roads of Arabia - YouTube

Foreign teams to study 15 Saudi archaeological sites | Arab News

Jaibi, not even when I provide plenty of sources from different newspapers, videos, pictures, earlier information you still keep writing nonsense.

In short keep writing nonsense if that makes you happy. I am quite frankly tired of repeating myself.

I suggest that you actually watch the videos I provided or read the articles. The female standing next to that giant stone with ancient stone carvings was part of the archaeological team who went to KSA. She is an American senior archaeologist. See tells about her experience in that video. Your version = archaeologists were banned.

And you are telling me to have a serious debate? Come on.

Ok, Saudi Arabia neglects its heritage and do not invite any archeologists. Happy now?

The House of Saud are Jewish undercover agents and their great plan is to bulldoze Makkah and Madinah to the ground and make Khaybar the capital.

More happy now?

I am sorry if I come across as a bit rude and non-patient here. I have no problem with any user here let alone you. I sometimes get tired of repeating myself but I am not angry in real life. Sometimes written words can seem harsher than spoken words.

Anyway lets agree to disagree.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

if i dont find god in Hajj i don't think Hajj has any meaning, i want to make Hajj and not spend money for the business venture by al saud

better give money to the needy people, i don't want to make Hajj living in five star hotels, i don't think i want to go there just to touch rocks ans throw stones

Just don't go and stop posting.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Look how radical and fanatic this guy really is And people call us Takifists

I don't agree with you on that buddy. I'm not worried about them. We can ship to their countries in bags if needed.

Allow me plz, you're being coward here, you could act pragmatic in anything but not in Haj. I'm not saying you kill them or sth, but just cotact their gov and tell them that this is unacceptable, and if they refused, ban them until they obey.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

I don't think the word 'heritage' exists in the Saudi vocabulary.

When it comes to holy places and serving Islam, heritage comes second.

 

[KingMamba]

Dude, keep barking for all I care, As I said earlier whatever lie within our borders is non of outsiders business. You should be thankful to us anyway that we let you in.
@KingMamba Non saudis have no right to raise any concern, so keep barking like him as if its going to change anything anyway.

I wasn't even being provocative nor was I barking unlike you, little Bit ch. If you don't like people talking about Saudi then leave this forum and save yourself the trouble.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

I wasn't even being provocative nor was I barking unlike you, little Bit ch. If you don't like people talking about Saudi then leave this forum and save yourself the trouble.

Both of you @Arabian Legend and Mamba give us a break guys, okay?

 

[Arabian Legend]

I wasn't even being provocative nor was I barking unlike you, little Bit ch. If you don't like people talking about Saudi then leave this forum and save yourself the trouble.

Our internal affairs concern us the Saudis only. Next time keep your nose where it belongs.

Both of you @Arabian Legend and Mamba give us a break guys, okay?

Roger that.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Our internal affairs concern us the Saudis only. Next time keep your nose where it belongs.

Roger that.

Great! Now, all what I should worry about is to get the devil out of there

 

[KingMamba]

Both of you @Arabian Legend and Mamba give us a break guys, okay?

Whatever.

Our internal affairs concern us the Saudis only. Next time keep your nose where it belongs.

Good to know, I think I will comment whenever I want anyway thanks for your concern.