Arab Tank Concept

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Right here named after Arab speaking General Khalid ibn al-Walid
So most likely the easiest option for certain countries
(if they are intrested) is discuss puchase of 100 Tanks


For Sale 100 Tanks Packages

 

[Philip the Arab]

Right here named after Arab speaking General Khalid ibn al-Walid
So most likely the easiest option for certain countries
(if they are intrested) is discuss puchase of 100 Tanks

Names don't mean anything. Iran named theirs Bavar 373 and that doesent mean Muslim countries suddenly want to buy it. That would be like naming a ww2 tank Muhammad and expecting Muslim countries to buy it.

 

[un4given.1991]

... Iran named theirs Bavar 373.....

just a little correction:

Bavar 373

Karrar MBT

Zulfaghar-3 MBT

 

[Mootaz-khelifi]

i would rather get M1A2 or Leopard 2 REV or NG rather then start R&D for tank then end up spending billions of $$$ and the west would be already devoleped the next Gen of Tanks

2 Iranian cardboard tanks are shit
3 Pakistani tank is not as good as western tanks

 

[Philip the Arab]

just a little correction:

Bavar 373

Karrar MBT

Zulfaghar-3 MBT

Oh yeah I knew that it's just that came to my head as the first thing. Karrar has nothing to do with religion as it means striker and zulfiqar does. Thanks for the correction though.

 

[Philip the Arab]

i would rather get M1A2 or Leopard 2 REV or NG rather then start R&D for tank then end up spending billions of $$$ and the west would be already devoleped the next Gen of Tanks

2 Iranian cardboard tanks are shit
3 Pakistani tank is not as good as western tanks

It doesent need to be top of the line. It could be suited to their needs as Israel has done. Israel developed a tank that wouldn't do good against modern tanks such as M1 Abrams, Leopard 2A7. It was developed to handle anything arab armies could throw at which it can effectively. The arab armies wouldn't need a top of the line tank. They would need a tank that suits them well. Leopard 2 REV and M1A3 Abrams are both very expensive tanks and who knows if the countries that made them would sell them right away. If the arab countries purchased them they would surely be in the tens of billions of dollars for maybe 100 new tanks which is right away not worth it. Developing a tank themselves, even a light tank would be useful because they have never done something like that and it would be a good start. The tanks could then be sold to other Muslim or arab nations.

 

[HannibalBarca]

It doesent need to be top of the line. It could be suited to their needs as Israel has done. Israel developed a tank that wouldn't do good against modern tanks such as M1 Abrams, Leopard 2A7. It was developed to handle anything arab armies could throw at which it can effectively. The arab armies wouldn't need a top of the line tank. They would need a tank that suits them well. Leopard 2 REV and M1A3 Abrams are both very expensive tanks and who knows if the countries that made them would sell them right away. If the arab countries purchased them they would surely be in the tens of billions of dollars for maybe 100 new tanks which is right away not worth it. Developing a tank themselves, even a light tank would be useful because they have never done something like that and it would be a good start. The tanks could then be sold to other Muslim or arab nations.

It will not be "well" sold to the others.
Because those "others" have the money and the possibility to buy "the best" on the market.

If today few Arab countries, group up and decide to make an indigenous tank with no external help/ no future string attached for export. The result will be A decade or two of R&D, Billions of $$, not only in R&D but in the in the Industries that will sustain that production. AND it will be outdated in the international market.

Armies aren't like buying a Chinese cheap phone and say "Whatever if it broke, as long as I can enjoy it, then I can buy another when it's over with this piece"... Defense for every country, will "Buy" the best they can afford. That's why you get countries spending billions on ONE thing even though they could get Dozens and Dozens for a lesser "RU or CN" alternative...

The other possibility is by Acquiring knowledge in Licencing, but it will take a lot of time...

And the Last is having External help from a third country, Like TR & KR with the Altay, But for that you need to have a strong industrial/Engineer base in your own country, since you will do most of the job in it...Something Arab countries ALL combined don't have yet. You have to build that first.

I'm with you, when it comes to invest in your local Def Industry, and Yes I believe they should start from something right now and catch up later on...
BUT... The region isn't China or EU or the US... A war can happen at any second... and let's be honest... Putting Billions and Billions in R&D right now... instead of buying Def equipment and boosting up your forces is EQUAL to surrender...Simple as that. All those Def contract in ME isn't to prepare for war... but to dissuade the next door guy... or the inside one...

Few Countries, with extra resources are trying to build their Def industry like UAE/KSA/EGY or even Jordan... But they don't have "enough" Manpower/Cash and Strategical needs to legitimate big projects, Right now.

Many like to take Turkey exemple and apply it to ME... But they have to understand that TR had to get through almost a Century of industrialisation to be able to "Start" in those past 2 decades... and still TR is far far from independence...

 

[Sineva]

Heres some preliminary designs from the saudi/gulfie defence industries.

Here we see a locally produced version of the abrams complete with new powerplant and combined "pedrail" type drive system.

And heres a design for an arab infantry fighting vehicle

And heres a model of the production version,I especially like the boots the "prime mover" is wearing[lol!]

 

[Sinnerman108]

I was thinking why don't Arab nations cooperate on building a tank? They of course don't have the general expertise and technology to build it themselves but if a number of Arab countries cooperated they could all fund it. The same way Turkey used the design of the K2 Black Panther to make their Altay tank. Of course countries with older tanks which are nearing obsolescence such as the older M60 pattons that although upgraded can be made their armor is obsolete against 120 mm shells and ATGMs. I know that Jordan has developed many things related to tanks such as the Falcon turret which is not being pursued anymore but is unmanned to my knowledge. Unmanned turrets are the future of tanks because less protection is needed for the crew because even if the turret is hit it won't be a crew kill but maybe a mission kill and ammo explosion. Anyway if liscensed production for the 120 mm gun used on the Falcon turret was acquired and the turret systems and ballistic fire control were acquired the whole thing with the armament would be NATO standard. The hard thing to make would be composite armor which could be produced under license maybe depending on who is contacted. I read a story that Jordan has 65000 tons of uranium underground https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/opinion/28beilin.html This could be used in the armor of the tanks in the same way the M1 Abrams uses it. I know some people are sceptical about the idea but most of the work would probably be foreign and with enough funds could be pulled off. I would think a price range in the billions would be enough to pay for the project which would be more than affordable to the countries factoring in how rich the Gulf countries are. The funding could work like how the F-35 program worked. You pay how much you money depending on how many tanks you wish to purchase. An active protection system would be needed to make sure that they can be used more effectively in urban warfare. I think the LEDS-150 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw15dqklTT9fBMtDzBT55WoG&cshid=1542942621243 would be cost effective and would provide sufficient protection. I'm not completely finished with this but I will try to post more tomorrow. Give me your opinion on if this would be a viable project.

Your answer is in the fact that Arab states have never cooperated in building any defense equipment.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Heres some preliminary designs from the saudi/gulfie defence industries.

Here we see a locally produced version of the abrams complete with new powerplant and combined "pedrail" type drive system.

And heres a design for an arab infantry fighting vehicle

And heres a model of the production version,I especially like the boots the "prime mover" is wearing[lol!]

Do you actually think that's offensive to Arabs? Come on man, The camel jokes got old a 1,000 years ago. Be a little more original.

 

[Sineva]

Do you actually think that's offensive to Arabs? Come on man, The camel jokes got old a 1,000 years ago. Be a little more original.

Offensive...?,whos being offensive?,I`m just poking a little bit of fun,thats all.If I was actually going to be deliberately offensive you`d be in no doubt about it,and I certainly wouldnt be talking about camel powered armored vehicles,thats for sure.

 

[Trango Towers]

just a little correction:

Bavar 373

Karrar MBT

Zulfaghar-3 MBT

Karrar turret is similar to the merkeva

 

[-SINAN-]

i would rather get M1A2 or Leopard 2 REV or NG rather then start R&D for tank then end up spending billions of $$$ and the west would be already devoleped the next Gen of Tanks

2 Iranian cardboard tanks are shit
3 Pakistani tank is not as good as western tanks

You should first get rid of the defeatist ideology. Turkey is a good example for you.

Many like to take Turkey exemple and apply it to ME... But they have to understand that TR had to get through almost a Century of industrialisation to be able to "Start" in those past 2 decades... and still TR is far far from independence...

Bro, this is kind of wrong. Let me give you some examples.

Şakir Zümre

He found a factory and started to produce bombs that can be launched from airplanes in 1925. Exported to Western countries.

Nuri Demirağ.

He found a factory and started to produce airplanes in 1936. Exported to Western countries.

Nuri Killigil.

He founded a factory and produced various weapons, bombs, ammunition in 1930s/1940s.

Vecihi Hürkuş.

He found a factory and started to produce airplanes in 1920s.

There were many examples like these, however in 1950s. America gave Turkey lots of military equipment after the WW2 under name of Marshal Aid.... then Turkey ceased it's indigenous productions.

After the invasion of Cyprus, US sanctions came to place and it was a wake up call for Turkey. Some of the new firms founded yet, they were in baby steps...

Then Erdoğan came and kind of refueled the ambitions and Turkey started to produce.

 

[Mootaz-khelifi]

You should first get rid of the defeatist ideology. Turkey is a good example for you.



Bro, this is kind of wrong. Let me give you some examples.

Şakir Zümre

He found a factory and started to produce bombs that can be launched from airplanes in 1925. Exported to Western countries.

Nuri Demirağ.

He found a factory and started to produce airplanes in 1936. Exported to Western countries.

Nuri Killigil.

He founded a factory and produced various weapons, bombs, ammunition in 1930s/1940s.

Vecihi Hürkuş.

He found a factory and started to produce airplanes in 1920s.

There were many examples like these, however in 1950s. America gave Turkey lots of military equipment after the WW2 under name of Marshal Aid.... then Turkey ceased it's indigenous productions.

After the invasion of Cyprus, US sanctions came to place and it was a wake up call for Turkey. Some of the new firms founded yet, they were in baby steps...

Then Erdoğan came and kind of refueled the ambitions and Turkey started to produce.

as u show turkey started like 90 years ago so it took her many dacades and to start our wn tank we need techonlogies that for sure west or even east will not gonna just hand u that technologie so 1st step is open a factory to a existing tank then start technologies transfer and R&D from that but for us in tunisia sadly i don't see any news about new tank or even upgrading our M60 anytime soon

 

[313ghazi]

They don't have thier own industries because they are sheep. They are happy to be at the mercy of someone else. All nations with foresight and self respect try to be as self independent as possible. Our leaders are the same, sanctions forced us into a defence industry, the same is true of Iran. Amongst Muslim nations only the Turks have developed a defence industry without compulsion because they have the honour of empire, the culture and pedigree of foresight that comes with it.