An Intriguing question :)

[shaktiman2010]

~ duplicate ~

 

[jagjitnatt]

By the way, you said western Armies are corrupt. Are you going to talk like a hollow monkey or going to show some proof too? LOL.

I said corruption is a worldwide phenomena.
MilitaryCorruption.com - Fighting for The Truth - Exposing The Corrupt in the U.S. Military
Read this site for a moment.

So, who sells without testing anyways?

Nobody tests a second hand equipment for free.

And its foolish to pay a price for fixing up a junk, rather than buying a new one for same price. LOL!

The only alternative to Admiral Gorshkov was Queen Elizabeth class carriers which cost $5.7 billion. No other carrier is being sold and we need to replace our aging carrier quickly.

Also, the problem was not high price but problem was that, agreement had enough loopholes which Russians exploited to jack up the prices.

The price was hiked later and we had a choice to pull out or agree to their new price due to extensive refitting. We chose to stay in the deal, it means that the deal was still worth.

Normally, when supplier delays the delivery, there are penalty clauses. How many such clauses Navy included in Gorshkov deal? LOL!

None. We always had an option to pull out.

Scorpene was wrong because prices was changed after final agreement was signed. That shows how lax the Navy officials were when making original agreement.

Prices can not be changed after final agreement. If they are the customer has an option to pullout.

If this is how every agreement is being done, then we will get first MRCA in 2019. LOL!

Then lets bet on it.

 

[shaktiman2010]

I said corruption is a worldwide phenomena.
MilitaryCorruption.com - Fighting for The Truth - Exposing The Corrupt in the U.S. Military
Read this site for a moment.

Provide a credible source.

There are thousand articles in Indian media about corruption in Indian armed services from canteen to Armed service medical colleges. LOL!

Give me proof of similar corruption in Western armed forces.

Indian armed forces are far more rotten and corrupt. They are nowhere close to western standards.

For example, just check how seriously Indian army General take corruption accusations from media.

Indian Army Chief shielded his own puppet from corruption charges and when media broke the story, he was forced to kick his butt. What more proof you need?

You love living in dreams. LOL!

 

[shaktiman2010]

Yes I am the same guy. And I still stand by my comments.

BTW, its no point discussing with you. I've proved my point. Bye Bye.

You failed to prove even a single point. Same old excuses to cover up corrupt a$$es in Indian armed forces and procurement process.

Even Antony has publicly admitted corruption in defense procurement process.

Better prepare next time, before you start talking in debate. LOL!

 

[pmukherjee]

The two of you have really fuked up this thread. If you can't interact in a decent manner please don't demonstrate your ***** online on an international defence forum. We don't need to be subjected to your juvenile personal feud. Please spare us.

 

[psychedelic_renegade]

shaktiman2010, stop derailing the thread, showing Indian flag doesn't make one Indian. ;-)

jagjitnatt, he is known to attack Indian members out of nothing, just ignore his trolls.

 

[indiarocks]

I have said it earlier and I believe many people would agree with me. Chuck the whole MRCA thing and buy more off the shelf MKIs. Its a beauty of an AC. To tackle the resultant heavy tilt towards Russian arms, speed up LCA induction and the MCA development using western/Israeli know-how. Correct me if I am wrong, but in any case the MRCA ACs wont get inducted in large numbers before 2012.

sir,
su-30mki is a heavy plane...better for air superiority while mmrca are less for air superirity and more for multi-role ground strike...

 

[harrymohan]

^^My question still remains the same, even if you need a lighter Multirole aircraft spending like $90 million a piece is just too much. If you wiki F-22 price which is like from other league and non-compare able cost $150 million which is like paying 2/3rd cost of F-22 and still something which can't be as good as 1/3rd good of F-22. Wat say? Keep discussing?
P.S I know F-22 US won't allow to sale to any country I was just using it from price point of view.

 

[KS]

very simple

Su 30MKI is good for air superioroty

MMRca multirole and Su mki mainly air superiority fighter

U got it wrong mate....the only air-superiority fighter in IAF is the Mig-29.

The MKI is a strike fighter or to put in a different way a fighter bomber.

List of weapons carried :

Air-to-air

air-to-surface

Brahmos is not in the list..please add that also.

unguided :

 

[KEETARP]

There are thousand articles in Indian media about corruption in Indian armed services from canteen to Armed service medical colleges. LOL!

Wait , AFMC(armed forces medical college) is the only medical training institute in whole country . Its not colleges , there is only single college . And which scandal are you talking off ????? , atleast i am not aware of it and I Graduated from same college Year back.

Before blaming Armed services for corruption , look at the other Gov institution and their scandal rate .
Even More , Its no secret that every time a Defence scandal comes into limelight , its the people in MoD , Finance ministry and Defence minister's team that seams to be making profit .
Each time it is the people in Bureaucracy , Babus who delay the deal and earn kickbacks

Whether its the case of coffin for people who sacrifice their lives
Bofors gun ,
Bulletproof jacket ,
spare-parts for Migs ,
recent Scorpene deal .

Why does every Defence minister wants to set up Ordinance factory in his own Constituency.
Why was George Fenandez more intrested in setting up plant of T90 factory in his village even if it meant 5 years delay . Is the Army responsible for this ???

Pick any recent CAG report , and see how many Army officers are envolved for delay and scandal . And each and every occasion its the Ministry that is responsible not the army officer.

Soldiers die on front - Fighting with outdated guns while Ministry delays the new deals to earn cash .
Current Defence minister is more worried about his clean image and clean image of Party instead of Soldiers on front.

Its wrong to bash the Army for all Deals and corruption .

I wont go far for Example - just wait for few months for Brazil's MRCA deal to conclude .
No doubt the Brazilian President and Defence minister will end up with Nice Flat and Cash in Paris alongside Sarkozy . Its the only reason they openly show the Likeness towards Rafale while opposition and Business community can only cry for corruption charges.

Sorry for OT and Troll but this Guy needed some Eye opener , another one who just wakes up from Internet Sleep and starts to Abuse Armed services , questions the integrity & dedication of officers .

No need to reply to this post - I always ignore Trollers like you , I wont continue on this topic anymore . Interpret it as my cowardliness but i wont discuss this topic further.

Dismissed.

 

[jha]

doctor sahib is back with a bang...kahan the...?

i totally agree sir, its mostly the bureaucracy and babugiri which delays everything....however scams like sukhna for ex. has not done any good for ARMY's reputation either...

 

[White Owl]

advanced planes are needed to stay ahead or with the game.

 

[skyisthelimit]

Prateek sirji,

dont get so angry....shaktiman is just testing us here, maybe its his habbit to do so....or maybe hes just trying to hide himself using our indian flag

some ppl are use to hiding behind others identity.

regards;

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Stop trolling and say something sensible. If you can't, stay out of debate.

British AJT Hawk was any better? LOL.

Also, whenever you talk about technology, it sounds like a horse-cry. Its typical with Indian army types. They lack the depth.

Here comes the Shakthi maaaaaan the super hero. It seems that he can save the country without the ARMY. Come on guys lets all go home.

 

[jagjitnatt]

^^My question still remains the same, even if you need a lighter Multirole aircraft spending like $90 million a piece is just too much. If you wiki F-22 price which is like from other league and non-compare able cost $150 million which is like paying 2/3rd cost of F-22 and still something which can't be as good as 1/3rd good of F-22. Wat say? Keep discussing?
P.S I know F-22 US won't allow to sale to any country I was just using it from price point of view.

$90 million may look much but its not a lot considering the kind of planes Rafale and Typhoon are.

F22 doesn't cost $150 million. Even with an order of 183 Raptors the costs comes out to be $361 million. The $150 million cost is for the USAF excluding all the research and testing.

When an aircraft is sold outside the country of origin, a fraction of cost of development of aircraft is added to the final cost so as to recover the cost of the aircraft program.

As for going for more MKI, I don't think we need more MKIs. 280 is a huge number and we need to diversify our inventory. Along with heavy fighters, we need capable multirole fighters too. Mig-29 is aging quick, Mig-21s are retiring, we don't have anything other than MKI.

Typhoon would be awesome for the Air Force. Some of the features of Typhoon are:

-82% of airframe is composites.
-Towed Radar Decoy(TRD) countermeasures
-One of the most advanced EW suites.
-Speech recognition module
-It is the easiest aircraft to fly today
-An rcs of less than 1 square meter
-Supercruise


Su30MKI is great for missions but it has its problems too.

-Huge rcs (its a bright beacon on the radar screen, enemy can detect at 100s of kms away, no surprise element)
-Heavy
-Not the best countermeasures
-No man machine interface.
-Requires a lot of human effort to fly
-Higher maintenance

There will be missions where Su30MKI will dominate, but there is also requirement for aircraft where low observability will be a requirement.

Typhoon will dominate there.

MRCA is very much a requirement. The planes in MRCA competition are one of the best right now and we need one of them soon.