Ammo Dump Up In Flames, Anantnag under emergency

[blitz]

Revenge killing for trooper shot dead in the same fashion a week before in the same location.

I wonder who shot this guy?

Why doesn't the caring Indian soldier pick up his fellow countryman? Displaying horror as a warning to Kashmiris? Who is the "terror"ist here?

So whats wrong with that picture ? Like always, i will not get into moral grandstanding to earn cheap points. If there is proof that person was an innocent civilian and shot deliberately by the security forces, then the police men responsible must be brought to a court of law. Not for any moral reason but to keep the rule of law supreme. If he is a rebel, whether Pakistani or native, or for that matter even a sympathizer, he was dealt with exactly the way he deserved. No ifs no buts. Everyone of them deserves the same fate. Thats part of killing an insurgency i.e. kill the insurgents. Kashmir is part of India now, for better or for worse. Kashmiri's are welcome to migrate to Pakistan if they so choose to. As for it being their home etc etc too bad, tough luck, go cry me a river. Baluchistan comes to mind doesn't it ?

 

[Neo]

Well isnt it a bit wierd that such a poll is allowed to be conducted and then published in all those Indian newspapers?

Like I said in one of my previous posts I don't care much about polls, my opinion is based on interacting with locals.
Majority wants independence which is fine with me.

 

[Bull]

Like I said in one of my previous posts I don't care much about polls, my opinion is based on interacting with locals.
Majority wants independence which is fine with me.

You dont have anything i your hands now, so definilty your first move would be to cut it off from India which is definitly better than it being with India and then sending in 'tribals' and making it another ***. A step by step move.

 

[blitz]

By the way, that picture is the Indian police, not the army. So how can it be revenge killing for army trooper ? Unless the army killed him, placed him there, then the police came for a photo shoot to slander its name in public. Or the blog you pulled it off from, is lying through its teeth. I find the second option more reasonable.

Also, did it occur to you that maybe that dead guy was not killed by the police, and rather the police came to investigate the death ? The police men sure do not look like they are displaying to body with smiles on their faces. They look more like confused, looking at the body, reporting the incident and thinking WTF do we do now ?

 

[Keysersoze]

So whats wrong with that picture ? Like always, i will not get into moral grandstanding to earn cheap points. If there is proof that person was an innocent civilian and shot deliberately by the security forces, then the police men responsible must be brought to a court of law. Not for any moral reason but to keep the rule of law supreme. If he is a rebel, whether Pakistani or native, or for that matter even a sympathizer, he was dealt with exactly the way he deserved. No ifs no buts. Everyone of them deserves the same fate. Thats part of killing an insurgency i.e. kill the insurgents. Kashmir is part of India now, for better or for worse. Kashmiri's are welcome to migrate to Pakistan if they so choose to. As for it being their home etc etc too bad, tough luck, go cry me a river. Baluchistan comes to mind doesn't it ?

You wanna know why insurgencies go on so long? Because of uncompromising heroes (like yourself)who want peace and will kill as many people as necessary to get it.
What you suggest is the surefire way to ensure that the insurgency will run on and on.....I am sure the family of that man will think "WOW we have sure learned who to support now.....the lovely chaps who killed our family member in a brutal fashion"
I try not to get involved in this kind of thread but seriously a lot of you have no ******** clue how these things work....

And the grandstanding comment makes me laugh as that is pretty much your entire post.

 

[blitz]

Key, read my post following that one. Secondly, i said PART of the reason is to exterminate insurgents. The other part is to bring general well being to the populace. Such that they are forced to choose between two opposing paths of militancy and death, and get a job and a good pay check. Ofcourse i do understand that rampant ruthlessness doesn't help, because it only gives them the choice between militancy and death, and jobless destitution. Thats an easy choice. So yes, i do have a certain clue of what i am talking about. But to show unnecessary weakness is a sure fire way to uncontrolled disaster. Talking about their relatives are we ? Let us assume for once that indeed that person was a rebel and indeed he was shot by the police. So the question arises, should the police not have ? What should have they done, give him a few bombs and the key to the Parliament ? The relatives must know, that although the government will provide your other remaining sons a job, if you send them on the same path as your previous one, thats exactly where they would end up too. Tell me does that make sense ?

Secondly, there is no moral grandstanding in my post. You view it from tinted glasses. I said things as a matter of fact. This is how it is, this is how it will stay. Kashmiri's really have no say in regards to their fate, no matter how unjust might it sound. Their fate will be decided by India and Pakistan. Sad but true.

 

[Neo]

You dont have anything i your hands now, so definilty your first move would be to cut it off from India which is definitly better than it being with India and then sending in 'tribals' and making it another ***. A step by step move.

We don't need to send any tribals or mujahideen when the majority itself (read 87%) doesn't want to be a part of India.
Independant Kashmir is a win win situation for Pakistan, AJK is practically Independent unlike Jammu.

 

[Keysersoze]

Key, read my post following that one. Secondly, i said PART of the reason is to exterminate insurgents. The other part is to bring general well being to the populace. Such that they are forced to choose between two opposing paths of militancy and death, and get a job and a good pay check. Ofcourse i do understand that rampant ruthlessness doesn't help, because it only gives them the choice between militancy and death, and jobless destitution. Thats an easy choice. So yes, i do have a certain clue of what i am talking about. But to show unnecessary weakness is a sure fire way to uncontrolled disaster. Talking about their relatives are we ? Let us assume for once that indeed that person was a rebel and indeed he was shot by the police. So the question arises, should the police not have ? What should have they done, give him a few bombs and the key to the Parliament ? The relatives must know, that although the government will provide your other remaining sons a job, if you send them on the same path as your previous one, thats exactly where they would end up too. Tell me does that make sense ?

Secondly, there is no moral grandstanding in my post. You view it from tinted glasses. I said things as a matter of fact. This is how it is, this is how it will stay. Kashmiri's really have no say in regards to their fate, no matter how unjust might it sound. Their fate will be decided by India and Pakistan. Sad but true.

My point is still valid regardless of that picture as there have been documented incidents via many sources.
And in answer to your question NO you don't hand them some bombs. You arrest them and subject them to the rule of law. That way the innocents get to be released and the soldiers (Who I am sure are all Sherlock Holmes with their detective skill ) won't eff up and stoke up more hatred by killing innocents.

Go look up the bloody sunday shootings in Northern Ireland.......that one incident created a surge of volunteers for the IRA which lengthened that whole conflict for years......

 

[Contrarian]

We don't need to send any tribals or mujahideen when the majority itself (read 87&#37 doesn't want to be a part of India.

Thats not what happens when the IA shoots people trying to cross over from Pakistan. WHat do you call them?

Independant Kashmir is a win win situation for Pakistan,

Surprisingly, and i am sure you will agree, that because of Kashmir Pakistan has trodden on teh path that it has. From its economy to its dictatorships to everything. Its all because of Pakistan's infatuation with Kashmir. WHile it has ruined Pakistan, India has still managed to grow despite it.

It has hurt Pakistan hell of a lot more than it has hurt India.

AJK is practically Independent unlike Jammu.

Do you honestly believe that? I can give countless reports saying that AJK is not at all free, heck AJK is run from Islamabad and its not even as free as Indian Kashmir.

You will be saying a blatant lie if you say that AJK or *** is free.

 

[blitz]

Yes you are right. I take my earlier words back. Instead of shooting, incase he really is a rebel, he should have been arrested and taken to court. But what if the person resists arrest by shooting back ? Unfortunately we will never know what truly happened.

Secondly, i will try to break the Kashmir problem down step by step [from Indian perspective]:

1. Best solution to insurgency ? Declare Kashmir independent, withdraw all forces, cut off all aid and leave them to God and Pakistan's mercy. Problem solved for India at least. Sadly for better or for worse, GOI has decided that i cannot do that. For whatever reason. So that option is closed.

2. Second solution is try to seal the border to prevent infiltration, and pacify the indigenous rebellion using the 'carrot and stick' approach. Both these actions are harder to apply than to state in theory. Its near impossible to seal the rugged LOC completely. The Indian army, police, and Kashmiri's all being humans, thus fallible to the same human weaknesses, its extremely hard to implement the 'carrot and stick' policy perfectly on the ground. There will always be some youth too enamored with the ways of the gun, there will always be some security men drunk with power. The best you can do is to minimize these deviants as much as possible. This is the option India has chosen.

3. Third option is enforce a blanket ban over all media coverage in Kashmir. Grant the military draconian powers. Kill, maim and gas rebels and their families at will. Cut off food, medicine, electricity, water and fuel to all civilians unless they acquiesce. Essentially starve them into absolute submission. Can it work ? Sure, thats how its been done since centuries, when there was no mass media. What can the rest of the world do to prevent India ? Nothing. Can India as a democratic nation today do it ? Absolutely not.

 

[Awesome]

You dont have anything i your hands now, so definilty your first move would be to cut it off from India which is definitly better than it being with India and then sending in 'tribals' and making it another ***. A step by step move.

Dude only your side has such a low thought process. What benefit is it to us if Kashmir goes independent rather than a part of Pakistan? But we are okay since we are saving human life from murder and rape.

 

[Marathaman]

Dude only your side has such a low thought process. What benefit is it to us if Kashmir goes independent rather than a part of Pakistan? But we are okay since we are saving human life from murder and rape.

Asim bhai seriously

Don't try to sound like a saint. It ain't gonna work.

Saving human lives is the least of your concerns. You support the kashmiri terrorists on one hand, and the Chinese rape of Tibet on the other.

An Independent kashmir will be a huge moral victory for Pakistanis (or so they think) who believe that muslims cannot live in India. It will only reassure them of their fascist ideas.

Fact is, you want Kashmir as part of Pakistan, to complete your vision of a "muslim homeland".
Second best option, create another islamic state in the region, and make it a stooge of Pakistan.

Sorry guys, ain't gonna happen. Kashmir will remain with India, and, if only to prove you guys wrong, it will be made one of the most prosperous states in India.

India is already undertaking massive infrastructure projects in kashmir. massive investment is also being planned to make kashmir a tourism hub.

 

[Awesome]

Yaar tibet is of no concern of mine and I don't get involved with it. I haven't taken the thaika of the entire world. We feel akin with the Kashmiris and thus anything that happens to them is like happening to us.

An independent Kashmir can be an ally of India just as much as it can be of Pakistan. After all you guys have treated them so nicely, they should remember the good ol times and live like happy gay neighbors with you all. .

Woh kya kehte hain? "Chor ki daari main tinka".

 

[Marathaman]

Yaar tibet is of no concern of mine and I don't get involved with it. I haven't taken the thaika of the entire world. We feel akin with the Kashmiris and thus anything that happens to them is like happening to us.

Well don't worry. Kashmir will fare much better under India, than under any other arrangement.
Btw...what is it that makes you feel akin to kashmiris? Are you a kashmiri your self?

An independent Kashmir can be an ally of India just as much as it can be of Pakistan. After all you guys have treated them so nicely, they should remember the good ol times and live like happy gay neighbors with you all. .

Undoubtedly, an Independent kashmir, all things being equal, will ally with India. Does that even need explanation?

 

[Bull]

We don't need to send any tribals or mujahideen when the majority itself (read 87%) doesn't want to be a part of India.

Its a survey done on a sample. So if you take the real figures its 87% of the people surveyed.