Amar Jawan memorial vandalism

[oFFbEAT]

Are we in a Muslim country?

same old lame logic....

Tell me, if India is NOT a Muslim country then why should the Muslims be treated differently here...
You said that the norms and principles of the AIMPLB are regressive and medieval(which I agree with)....so they definitely contradict with the Law Of The Land(unless you think the Law Of The Land is also regressive and Medieval).......

Now please explain, Why on earth the AIMPLB should be ignored(as you suggested previously) when their norms and principles CONTRADICT with the Law Of The Land????
Why should AIMPLB be ignored and allowed to impose their medieval laws onto another Muslim(who is a citizen of India and must abide by the Law Of The Land)????
Why should The Law Of The Land be different for different citizens of India????

Shouldn't the Muslims be forced to change their norms those contradict with the Law Of The Land.....like they did it for Hindus...

Now you see, where you are contradicting Yourself....if you don't, then you are simply a Religious Opportunist and communalist like those thugs who vandalized the respected monument and wants to escape punishment by holding out the minority card.....with the help of our politicians....

And you're accusing us of being communalists....what an Irony....

 

[Stumper]

Let me ask you this, why do you think you are the one who knows everything and all others are just the kids who were just born yesterday?

Maybe you can shove your attitude at your desk. We can be civilized in our discussion.

The point is, if someone is so trigger happy then he/she needs to change himself but If you think for what ever reason, he./she is justified to act like goons then I am sorry to say he/she will have to bear the consequences. No one will have any sympathy for them.

For someone , who has spent considerable efforts asking me to stop "Assuming" things, you seem trigger happy making assumptions about others and what they believe is Justified action or where our Sympathies lies.

Sure, am I stopping them from doing their job?

Yes. You are in a way. Stop Judging them on Net Forum. Let them do their investigation first.

The reason that they failed to check the vandals and failed to stop them carrying materials for arson to the ground

ReRead on where the arson happened and why Police was contained in their action.

See you are fighting with me on wrong pretext. I have stated before and I am doing it again. It was the action not the religion which was the reason of enrage in me. And no I have no interest to be in the shoes of terrorists like Dara Singh and the ones who were the vandals in Mumbai. Nothing can justify a stupid action and If you do an act you will have to bear the consequences as well.

Sir, Im not fighting with you. Im putting across my views. Asking people to stop being judgmental. It was a stupid act by few idiots.. Let police do their job.

 

[jbond197]

Stumper, Leave it buddy, now you are responding just for the sake of it. I waited for you because I wanted to see one last bit what gems you are going to produce but you chose to restate what you did earlier and I already answered them so with that I think we can conclude our discussion.

Lol, me commenting on a forum is stopping an investigation. It definitely is a cool thing to know.

 

[Stumper]

Stumper, Leave it buddy, now you are responding just for the sake of it.

You dont get it , do you?. Its no more a debate for us. Its not about who scores the most. Its about preventing wrong.

If you are not comfortable debating view points different then yours, then why not simply start a blog ... A discussion forum does not serve you well.

I did layout what i felt and why. So, its not just for the "Sake" of it, bud.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Bangalore - you are seeing it in isolation. Whereas I am concerned about how well organized these people are - Pune, Mysore, Mumbai, Ranchi, Jamshedpur. Can the govt. of India provide the Indians a level of confidence that these are not well organized? Sorry, I am not going to keep a closed eye and think "All is well".

There is a definite reason why these Pseudo Moderates want us to keep our eyes closed......
When the Country would be on the verge of another Partition....you will be surprised to find that these 'moderates' are actually....................... .......you guessed right........

 

[Killswitch]

Doesnt matter what the traitors religion is. Hindu, Sikh, Jain, Bhuddist, Muslim, Agnostic, Atheist....


Vandalizing a war memorial should lead to serious prison time.

 

[jbond197]

You dont get it , do you?. Its no more a debate for us. Its not about who scores the most. Its about preventing wrong.

If you are not comfortable debating view points different then yours, then why not simply start a blog ... A discussion forum does not serve you well.

I did layout what i felt and why. So, its not just for the "Sake" of it, bud.

a) You comments were based on huge amount of false assumptions to begin with.

b) If you are going to take the victim argument around showing how sorry people can go and do anything they can wish to then I am sorry to say that is a very wrong way of thinking.

If everyone starts thinking that way then every other trigger happy frustrated person will go out on drop of hat and start attacking people. Some people will then come to their defense asking every one to step in their shoes and feel why they did what they did or will bring irrelevant things like the comments are because the vandal was wearing a skull cap or following a particular religion.

c) And about me commenting here and not willing to take other's views - now if I don't agree with every other weird ways of looking at things that does not mean I am allergic to other view points. In your case, all you were doing was to falsely accuse me of something which I never intended. What do you expect me to do? Except that view point of yours? Sorry buds that is why I said there is no use in debating if you come with some preconceived notions.

d) I do want a legal action to be taken against the vandals but I am not sure there is a political will to do so. That is my major concern..

e) I am talking about individuals in this debate.

 

[Stumper]

a) You comments were based on huge amount of false assumptions to begin with.

Like?

b) If you are going to take the victim argument around showing how sorry people can go and do anything they can wish to then I am sorry to say that is a very wrong way of thinking.

First,You are quoting things i have never said or implied. Second, im inclined to believe you do no care to read what i already wrote - what my stand was. And i repeated it twice. None the less, i will repeat. It was a idiotic act by two guys (im referring to the act in subject of this thread). Let police do their job of investigation. Name calling them is unfair and racially motivated as per me.

If everyone starts thinking that way then every other frustrated person will go and attack people on the road and people like you will come to their defense asking every one to step in their shoes and feel why they did what they did or may to add spice will bring in skull caps and start associating everything with religion.

again, it is you who is assuming things. Neither me, or joe is advocating anything but justice. We ask people to stop seeing this as anything but a mob action. Stop viewing this with racial lens (and i i guess here is where we disagree.... i believe members on this forum view this vandalism as a bunch of muslims insulting national symbols). Its the Indian members (Not all, but definitely many) who have brought in things like Shive Sena, RSS, etc. Just check out the threads.

c) And about me commenting here and sharing my view and not taking others - now if I don't agree with every other weird ways of looking at things that does not mean I am allergic to other view points.

Then debate and discuss, instead of accusing others for "Acting as if you know all and others are born yesterday". People come here to discuss and Debate. We can agree to disagree with civility.

In your case, all you were doing was to falsely accuse me of something which I never intended. What do you expect me to do? Except that view point of yours?

Since you are so fond of the word, pray enlighten me , what exactly have i "falsely" accused you of and which you have proved to be otherwise?

 

[jbond197]

First,You are quoting things i have never said or implied.

You said that they did it because they were so very frustrated in life or were they my comments?

Second, im inclined to believe you do no care to read what i already wrote - what my stand was. And i repeated it twice. None the less, i will repeat. It was a idiotic act by two guys (im referring to the act in subject of this thread). Let police do their job of investigation.

Even I am inclined to believe you are not reading what's been told to you. I said l have no faith due to politics but will be happy to see if police force is able to catch and punish these guys. Why do you have problem in accepting my view point? Why don't you let the law of land prove me wrong?

Name calling them is unfair and racially motivated as per me.

No it was not. Ask Joe even he called them swines for his own reasons!! Don't know why you are hell bent on associating your racio/religio-discrimation rooted views on others and I tried explaining it to you on two occasions that that's just your poor assumption nothing else. The guys were called what they deserved to be called based on their actions and nothing else. Contrary to your illogical belief, I have lots of Muslim friends and even a few from Pakistan!!

We ask people to stop seeing this as anything but a mob action. Stop viewing this with racial lens (and i i guess here is where we disagree.... i believe members on this forum view this vandalism as a bunch of muslims insulting national symbols). Its the Indian members (Not all, but definitely many) who have brought in things like Shive Sena, RSS, etc. Just check out the threads.

I am not the one to answer for every one else. You can go talk to individuals.

Then debate and discuss, instead of accusing others for "Acting as if you know all and others are born yesterday". People come here to discuss and Debate. We can agree to disagree with civility.

Ok, I take that as a valid input from you.

Since you are so fond of the word, pray enlighten me , what exactly have i "falsely" accused you of and which you have proved to be otherwise?

Your assumptions that the views shared by me were out of some kind of religio-hatred. I am telling this to you for the nth time that I felt bad because it was a war monument and associated to the soldiers of the land. Any attacks on them is not justifiable and that too on the pretext of false flow of information. Your portrayal of my views like you are trying to do is malicious, condemnable and full of contempt. would you please refrain from doing so going on?

In the end, I would say I have got what you are trying to say but can not agree as what ever you are trying to conclude is baked on false assumptions.

So let's end it here and move on.

 

[Stumper]

You said that they did it because they were so very frustrated in life or were they my comments?
Last time ...Let me paste your quote

"showing how sorry people can go and do anything they can wish to then I am sorry to say that is a very wrong way of thinking.

I have never said or implied that people can do anything they wish to. Now let me paste from my first quote:

Im not bothered that your idea of being patriotic , is to bring this idiots to Justice. Fair.

Even I am inclined to believe you are not reading what's been told to you. I said l have no faith due to politics but will be happy to see if police force is able to catch and punish these guys. Why do you have problem in expecting my view point? Why don't you let the law of land prove me wrong?

Thats what i have been requesting you, havent i? .... To stop viewing this from religions lens. Police does not have any political agenda, atleast none for a bunch of thugs. The only reason they will NOT be able to catch this two thugs is because of competence. Hence , request people to stop spreading this false rumors (rumors unless proven truth) about police not catching thugs for political reason.

No it was not. Ask Joe even he called them swines!! Don't know why you are hell bent on associating your racio/religio-discrimation rooted views and I tried explaining it to you on two occasions that that's your poor assumption. The guys were called what they deserved to be called based on their actions and nothing else. Contrary to your illogical belief, I have lots of Muslim friends and even a few from Pakistan!!

In that case i owe you a apology. My bad.

Your assumptions that the views shared by me are because of some kind of hatred towards Muslims. I am telling this to you for the nth time that I feel bad because it was a war monument and associated to the soldiers of the land. Any attacks on them is not justifiable and that too on the pretext of false flow of information.

hatred towards Muslims .. No, i never accused of you of that. I do feel that you attach a religious angle to this incident.

Lastly, my posts do not mean to accuse or belittle individual. However i feel strongly about our country's secular roots. Its high time we face the mirror and act secular.

 

[jbond197]

Thats what i have been requesting you, havent i? .... To stop viewing this from religions lens. Police does not have any political agenda, atleast none for a bunch of thugs. The only reason they will NOT be able to catch this two thugs is because of competence. Hence , request people to stop spreading this false rumors (rumors unless proven truth) about police not catching thugs for political reason.

You believe police and politics in India works like that. Dude get real! Now since the incident happened all kind of protection will come to the thug and it will be difficult for police to arrest them.

hatred towards Muslims .. No, i never accused of you of that. I do feel that you attach a religious angle to this incident.

There was a religious angle in the whole event and that was to protest some fake deaths in Myanmar and Assam. Now are you going to deny that? That would be naive and I saw the religious angle yet blame the individuals so again stop cooking stories about me.

Lastly, my posts do not mean to accuse or belittle individual. However i feel strongly about our country's secular roots. Its high time we face the mirror and act secular.

how do one act secular in riot like situation? By letting vandals do what ever they want to? and by closing eyes to help few people feel happy. Stop giving half baked lessons of secularism to all.

 

[Killswitch]

I see allot of talking.

This is such a simple issue.


If you dishonour veterans and memorials, you go to prison, for a long time. Forget the politics of religion and what country the shameless traitors are from.

These people in the pictures should be in prison for at least 3 years doing hard labour. If they were sentenced to 10, I would not cry for them.

 

[Sashan]

I see allot of talking.

This is such a simple issue.


If you dishonour veterans and memorials, you go to prison, for a long time. Forget the politics of religion and what country the shameless traitors are from.

These people in the pictures should be in prison for at least 3 years doing hard labour. If they were sentenced to 10, I would not cry for them.

The problem is we have antiquated laws. While idiots like Vasant Doble made use of the same antiquated laws to bring in shame on women, there are not much non-bailable sections or sections providing many years for vandalism available to have these miscreants in jail.

 

[SamantK]

I see allot of talking.

This is such a simple issue.


If you dishonour veterans and memorials, you go to prison, for a long time. Forget the politics of religion and what country the shameless traitors are from.

These people in the pictures should be in prison for at least 3 years doing hard labour. If they were sentenced to 10, I would not cry for them.

Anti-rioting laws should be so strong that these people should **** in their pants..

Damaging national symbols should earn a life-time behind bars..

 

[Agni5000]

same old lame logic....

Tell me, if India is NOT a Muslim country then why should the Muslims be treated differently here...
You said that the norms and principles of the AIMPLB are regressive and medieval(which I agree with)....so they definitely contradict with the Law Of The Land(unless you think the Law Of The Land is also regressive and Medieval).......

Now please explain, Why on earth the AIMPLB should be ignored(as you suggested previously) when their norms and principles CONTRADICT with the Law Of The Land????
Why should AIMPLB be ignored and allowed to impose their medieval laws onto another Muslim(who is a citizen of India and must abide by the Law Of The Land)????
Why should The Law Of The Land be different for different citizens of India????

Shouldn't the Muslims be forced to change their norms those contradict with the Law Of The Land.....like they did it for Hindus...

Now you see, where you are contradicting Yourself....if you don't, then you are simply a Religious Opportunist and communalist like those thugs who vandalized the respected monument and wants to escape punishment by holding out the minority card.....with the help of our politicians....

And you're accusing us of being communalists....what an Irony....

Don't spend energy on explaining to him. He is here to get some browny points.