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Aman Ka Tamasha

Population of India​

S.No.State NamePopulation in 2011Estimated population in 2023
3.Arunachal Pradesh1,383,7271,711,947
11.Goa1,458,5451,521,992
12.Gujarat60,439,69270,400,153
13.Haryana25,351,46228,900,667
20.Madhya Pradesh72,626,80985,002,417
21.Maharashtra112,374,333124,904,071
22.Manipur2,855,7943,436,948
34.Uttar Pradesh199,812,341231,502,578
35.Uttarakhand10,086,29211,700,099

2023 estimated population comes out to be 559,080,872 or 559 millions. I would say that are quite significant numbers.


P.S: I have skipped a few states mentioned by Joe so kindly overlook it.
For every metric you would apply to us, the absolute numbers innit would be inordinately large.

A better measure would be to see the voter share of each party. That would give one a clearer picture. One consequence of the first past the post system that we have for electing officials is that it ends up electing minority governments. I.e majority of the votes did not go to the winning party but were split up amongst its opponents.
 
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We know a bit about you from your bollywood movies. I haven't singled out anyone, just stated our perspective.



Come visit and you may be left amazed by purchasing power of Pakistanis.
Purchasing power of Pakistanis would be unleashed on the tourism industry in India and vice versa.

It was perhaps a cheeky way of saying the common man here is quite inquisitive about the other and not completely fettered to the politicals machinations. Given the opportunity, tourism from travellers within the subcontinent would be a vital component of national health for all the countriee in the region.

Why go to Switzerland when every biome one could concieve of is present in our subcontinent.
 
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Muslims as a nation itself might not fall in this. We saw during the Khilafat movement that the support was mainly emotional and nothing much to gain from it.

Pakistan is majorly Muslim, and that has to be taken into account

If India and Pakistan does not come into some sort of settlement, I am not too optimistic that both of us will even last next 50 years.

Pakistan itself is internally unstable, perhaps much more unstable than India, and in times of instability, conflicts both internal and external are very much probable.

Pakistan shares many traits that we see in Afghanistan, especially of fighting. We fight within ourselves and we are mentally prepared to fight anyone. Not to condone any aggression but rather just simply highlighting the characteristics found in a large population here.
I can only agree partially, my reason being:

For any community to fight for any cause, it needs leaders to rally around. I am not that of a history buff, so Wiki is my friend for now. Read up only slightly but then, it is as I expected it to be. There is a strong cause for that emotion wasn't it? Muslims in subcontinent, seemed to have feared being conscripted in a Army that will fight their so called brothers in Turkey.

I find this strange though, it's not like Muslims haven't fought other Muslims. However it's possible that, given the atmosphere of freedom movement in India, both Hindus and Muslims were trying to find non existent blood brothers outside the subcontinent, who fought against British Imperialism.

From what I read, there was concern for dissolvement of the Turkish Monarchy, across the Muslim world. However the most notable activities, seem to have happened in India of all places. It also says the Arabs were on British side, worried about continuation of Turkish dominance over them. This only supports my base idea that, people acted for real reasons. When the movement withered, it ended up paving way for formation of your nation ultimately. I think this is where the Ummah concept must have started taking route in subcontinent, but I could be reading too much being not having much knowledge on these matters.

Your statement about Muslims as a nation not falling into my original argument, doesn't entirely stand the test of proof. If all Muslims were to think the same, the struggle for the Ottoman Khalifa would have happened across the Muslim world.

It also shows that, Pakistan's problems have nothing to do with majority being Muslim. A communities proclivities might manifest socially, but state policy wise cannot hold water all the time, as policy decisions take into consideration realities of the world. Yes it's leaders have used religion to their benefit, making it a means and not the ends isn't it?

I totally agree with your reading of characteristics, as one has to consider all possibilities before predicting or even planning for future. All I am saying is that, there are too many invested parties on both sides who will want the status quo to continue. Am also saying that not withstanding the characteristics of Individual Pakistanis, the ones who are in positions to take decisions will do so based on reality. A simple profit and loss statement if I have to use my Accounting lol, or in Urdu Munshi credentials or thoughts.

I also somehow don't agree with Pakistan as a nation disintegrating, it's not going to happen. As long as the Army is doing it's job, they will hold it together. PDF might have some weird people these days, and strangely Pakistanis singing songs of break it up but I as an Indian don't see it happening. Yes the nation will struggle and reel under heavy issues, but breaking up is not going to happen. Too much is at stake for both World powers, to let this happen.

People might not believe, but even India will not like seeing this happen.
 
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As long as the Army is doing it's job, they will hold it together.
No Pakistani will disagree with this statement. But Pakistanis who are well versed and interact with the military almost daily as part of their lives question if army is indeed doing their job or not.
 
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Given the current scenario i would agree with your analysis.

What im postulating from is based on two observations:

1. India cannot project power globally if our resources are being eaten up by our security at our fence. Its a headache, theres no easy solution, and perpetually results in acrimony between us. This cannot go on in perpetuity. War is discussed to death, trade isnt. How could trade be weaponised, that is the premise.

2. Pakistan faces similar per capita economic challenges due to her growing population and insufficient natural resources to provide for them. Long term economic stability is gaining prominence in policy circles and a necessity for its burgeoning citizens.

In such a scenario what would trade look like amd/or what leverage would it give us over each other.
I am totally confused now, with what you wrote above.

I can see the observations of both countries, when it comes to their current situation being absolutely spot on.

However what do you mean by, discussing how can trade be weaponized? Or are you saying it can't be?
 
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State​
Population (millions)​
Uttarakhand,
10.08​
Haryana,
25.35​
UP (most damaging to the fabric of Indian democracy, because of their overwhelming numbers), ,
241.06​
Maharashtra,
112.37​
Karnataka (subject to poll outcome, that will be learnt a few days from now),
61.13​
Goa
1.45​
Gujarat,
60.43​
Assam,
31.16​
Manipur
2.85​
Tripura
4.14​
Arunachal.
1.38​
551.40​
 
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I am totally confused now, with what you wrote above.

I can see the observations of both countries, when it comes to their current situation being absolutely spot on.

However what do you mean by, discussing how can trade be weaponized? Or are you saying it can't be?
One aspect of supply and demand is that it creates leverages between both parties. What im trying to say or explore is what possibilities would emerge to influence each other through trade if it were to be natural free flowing.

Give each other enough leverages and you find another powerfull lobby emerge on both sides voicing for peace this time.

Look at the nuclear power plant deal between us. In an event of war both nations have sworn not to bomb each others nuclear power producing facilities. Both nations share a list of such facilities with each other annually. The leverage for cooperation in this case was the shared realization of the horrific consequences of such a scenario.

With trade, multiple such avenues emerge where it makes more sense to tackle a common problem together than to do it alone.
 
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Befitting reply saar. Reminiscent of Nehru and Shashi Tharoor's brilliance and eloquence.
You have made an Indian supporter.

Congratulations.

Soon you can stand for election in India, in a carefully selected Hindu-majority seat that will do what blind superstition and excessive religiosity dictates.

THIS is the kind of camaraderie that will build up, I am sure! :azn:

Population of India​

S.No.State NamePopulation in 2011Estimated population in 2023
3.Arunachal Pradesh1,383,7271,711,947
11.Goa1,458,5451,521,992
12.Gujarat60,439,69270,400,153
13.Haryana25,351,46228,900,667
20.Madhya Pradesh72,626,80985,002,417
21.Maharashtra112,374,333124,904,071
22.Manipur2,855,7943,436,948
34.Uttar Pradesh199,812,341231,502,578
35.Uttarakhand10,086,29211,700,099

2023 estimated population comes out to be 559,080,872 or 559 millions. I would say that are quite significant numbers.


P.S: I have skipped a few states mentioned by Joe so kindly overlook it.
About 551 million, based on truncating without rounding up, or down.

Thank you very much. I found it hard work shuttling between kitchen and computer. The table, FWIW, is somewhere here.

I hope people will notice that we are heavily influenced by the overblown state of UP, whose population is quite significant.

State​
Population (millions)​
Uttarakhand,
10.08​
Haryana,
25.35​
UP (most damaging to the fabric of Indian democracy, because of their overwhelming numbers), ,
241.06​
Maharashtra,
112.37​
Karnataka (subject to poll outcome, that will be learnt a few days from now),
61.13​
Goa
1.45​
Gujarat,
60.43​
Assam,
31.16​
Manipur
2.85​
Tripura
4.14​
Arunachal.
1.38​
551.40​
It is significant, but it is 551.4 (calculated total) on a base of 1,400 million. or 40%.
60% is NOT BJP.
 
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This thread is a true depiction of the Khatri and Baniya mentality. They will do business with you, and try to exploit your market and resources. On the face, they will be normal to you as traders but from inside they will stay enemies.

A liberalized trade between India and Pakistan has the potential to bring about significant material advantages, particularly for India. Pakistan, on the other hand, currently stands to benefit from cheaper goods for consumers in the face of skyrocketing inflation. and a reduced pressure on foreign reserves. And while the benefits of a liberalized India-Pakistan trade policy may seem primarily materialistic, it is essential to recognize that they extend beyond the economic realm. By promoting regional cooperation, and people-to-people contact, a liberalized trade policy can lead to a more stable, peaceful, and prosperous region. The presence of economic interdependence between nations reduces the likelihood of wars.

As Frederic Bastiat eloquently put it, "When goods don't cross borders, soldiers will."
 
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Look at the nuclear power plant deal between us. In an event of war both nations have sworn not to bomb each others nuclear power producing facilities. Both nations share a list of such facilities with each other annually.
hah !

udhar hi se firing bhi hogi nuclear missiles ki.. proper bagal ki chhuri

;)
 
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For every metric you would apply to us, the absolute numbers innit would be inordinately large.

A better measure would be to see the voter share of each party. That would give one a clearer picture. One consequence of the first past the post system that we have for electing officials is that it ends up electing minority governments. I.e majority of the votes did not go to the winning party but were split up amongst its opponents.
That is why with 40% of the electoral vote, the BJP has captured an enormous number of seats. Many of its seats were won by margins of less than a 1,000 votes.
 
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hah !

udhar hi se firing bhi hogi nuclear missiles ki.. proper bagal ki chhuri

;)
This is to prevent a conventional bomb resulting in a nuclear fallout.

Nuclear bombs ka target specific hota hai, conventional ke broad hote hai.
 
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A liberalized trade between India and Pakistan has the potential to bring about significant material advantages, particularly for India. Pakistan, on the other hand, currently stands to benefit from cheaper goods for consumers in the face of skyrocketing inflation. and a reduced pressure on foreign reserves. And while the benefits of a liberalized India-Pakistan trade policy may seem primarily materialistic, it is essential to recognize that they extend beyond the economic realm. By promoting regional cooperation, and people-to-people contact, a liberalized trade policy can lead to a more stable, peaceful, and prosperous region. The presence of economic interdependence between nations reduces the likelihood of wars.

As Frederic Bastiat eloquently put it, "When goods don't cross borders, soldiers will."

One failure of our policies is that we never locked any nation for long term via their interests (we could have easily), that alone guarantees security plus renders threats of war from them self harming. For india we could have been gateway, with india engaged and restricted because of its investment and interests.

Now when it is very much clear in this age of global awareness, we realize that how our future generations have been deprived of a developed peaceful state by totally incompetent corrupt idiots and how they still wish to keep large part of our population hostage by refusing them easy cheap access to commodities and basic necessities.
 
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One aspect of supply and demand is that it creates leverages between both parties. What im trying to say or explore is what possibilities would emerge to influence each other through trade if it were to be natural free flowing.

Give each other enough leverages and you find another powerfull lobby emerge on both sides voicing for peace this time.

Look at the nuclear power plant deal between us. In an event of war both nations have sworn not to bomb each others nuclear power producing facilities. Both nations share a list of such facilities with each other annually. The leverage for cooperation in this case was the shared realization of the horrific consequences of such a scenario.

With trade, multiple such avenues emerge where it makes more sense to tackle a common problem together than to do it alone.
Call me a pessimist, but that example is a extreme one of existential nature for both parties. Cannot be considered an example of, possible cooperation.

Realistically speaking as of today, direct trade between us both will be heavily beneficial to us than Pakistan. This will lead to sore relations, on the business front too within short time,
 
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