Alternate solution for Pakistan Navy to counter Large Navies ?

[Storm Force]

ORANGZEIB.

Your CRAZY suggestion that NUCLEAR weapons will be used in a BLOCKADE is the worst post YET in this already rediculous thread...

NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD will go NUCLEAR until it knows its about to be decimated by a SUPERIOR CONVENTIONAL MILITARY POWER..

IMO india cannot decimate ENTIRE PAKISTAN in a full throttle conventional war.

THEY CAN BLOCKADE YOU.
They can knockout your 3 naval bases and destro some infrastucture

THAT WILL NOT RESULT IN A NUCLEAR STRIKE that is a rediculous suggestion.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I am reading some crazy grandiose ideas here. It's entertaining yet scary at the same time as you guys talk about this stuff like you are reading a book!
Do you really think that it'll come down to it that a smaller nuclear country will WAIT until the bigger country conventionally destroys its infrastructure and takes it back to 1970? Much before that, the war will go unconventional. After that, only God help everyone!! So let's get off the crazy horse. No one's in a position of 'blockading' the other one. The results may be what no one would expect. This isn't India blockading Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, this is one nuclear power blockading the other one.......do I need to say more?

No country will nuke other one just to escape from a naval blockade situation, pak very well know that if they use nuk, Indian retaliation will be massive, so unless Pakistan's territorial integrity comes under serious threat from Indian side they won't use nuke(assuming they don't have suicidal tendencye ).

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

No u tell me a source where the Chinese exactly said the have rejected this platform??and the answer to yr question is also in my question look closely RSS kiddo.

well if you are looking for specific words like "rejected " then you might not find it, but if you are wise enough you will know that China can afford much more capable fighter like j10 in numbers as their base line fighter. they will sell jf17 to smaller airforces which have smaller budget and smaller adversaries, to make money.

 

[The Deterrent]

I am reading some crazy grandiose ideas here. It's entertaining yet scary at the same time as you guys talk about this stuff like you are reading a book!
Do you really think that it'll come down to it that a smaller nuclear country will WAIT until the bigger country conventionally destroys its infrastructure and takes it back to 1970? Much before that, the war will go unconventional. After that, only God help everyone!! So let's get off the crazy horse. No one's in a position of 'blockading' the other one. The results may be what no one would expect. This isn't India blockading Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, this is one nuclear power blockading the other one.......do I need to say more?

No country will nuke other one just to escape from a naval blockade situation, pak very well know that if they use nuk, Indian retaliation will be massive, so unless Pakistan's territorial integrity comes under serious threat from Indian side they won't use nuke(assuming they don't have suicidal tendencye ).

Levels of Pakistan's Nuclear Threshold

The doctrine is not the part of the Minimum Credible Deterrence principle of Pakistan, however, the doctrine is integrated the nuclear dimension into its defence principle. According to the sources (after being obtained from Pakistan's nuclear command authority) published by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), the definition of four potential thresholds has been refined in the form of four thresholds which were first mentioned by officials at the nuclear command authority in late 2001.

Spatial Threshold:
The armed and military penetration of Indian Armed Forces into Pakistan on large scale may elicit a nuclearize massive retaliation, if and only if the Pakistan Army is unable to stop such intervention. For instance, many analysts, including some Indians, believe that the Indus Valley— the "lifeline" of Pakistan— is one of many other "red lines" that Indian forces should not cross. The capture of key objectives in this crucial northeast–southwest axis might well provoke nuclear retaliation by Pakistan.

Military Threshold:
The complete knockout or comprehensive destruction of a large part of Pakistan Armed Forces, particularly and most importantly the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), could lead to a quick nuclear response if Islamabad believed that it was losing the cohesiveness of its defence and feared imminent defeat. A senior ranking PAF officer maintained that "orders given to PAF (and its missile command) are identical to the guidelines given to the NATO commanders during the Cold war crises. This criterion is even more important for the Pakistan Armed Forces because of its critical role in maintaining the country’s stability. As noted above, an attack on a nuclear installation has also been posited as a threshold. According to PAF, this level of threshold also included the chemical or biological weapons attack against Pakistan, would also respond to massive retaliation.

Economic Threshold
This level implicitly and explicitly refers for the countermeasure operations of Pakistan Navy. The economic strangulation and economic blockade is also a potential threat to Pakistan, in which if Pakistan Navy is unable to counter it effectively. This primarily refers to a potential Indian Navy blockade of Sindh Province and coastal cities of Balochistan Province, or the stopping of the Indus water flow. It could also refer to the capture of vital arteries such as the Indus.

Political Threshold
Finally, Pakistan's geostrategist, game theorists and political strategists and planners suggest that a destabilization of the country by India could also be a nuclear threshold if Islamabad has credible proves to believe that the integrity of the country were at stake. Stated scenarios are political destabilization or large-scale internal destabilization in which if Pakistan Marines (along with other paramilitary command) are unable to stabilized it effectively. One example would be encouraging the breakaway of one or more Pakistan's provinces.

 

[notsuperstitious]

^^^ who writes this extremely serious stuff without even knowing the plural of proof? Seriously? I mean not to nitpick, but nothing about pakistan's nuke project inspires any confidence.

Finally, Pakistan's geostrategist, game theorists and political strategists and planners suggest that a destabilization of the country by India could also be a nuclear threshold if Islamabad has credible proves to believe that the integrity of the country were at stake

 

[The Deterrent]

^^^ who writes this extremely serious stuff without even knowing the plural of proof? Seriously?

It wasn't me! Somebody put up the edited version of this article by IISS at wiki:

IISS Pakistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_doctrine_of_Pakistan

Here is the original text of the same part:

The political threshold. Finally, Pakistani planners suggest that a destabilisation of the country by India could also be a nuclear threshold if Islamabad believed that the integrity of the country were at stake.

I excuse, should've posted the original source.

 

[Mitro]

Your Answer Is in Pakistan Nuclear Doctrine

Levels of Threshold

The doctrine is not the part of the Minimum Credible Deterrence principle of Pakistan, however, the doctrine is integrated the nuclear dimension into its defence principle.[3] According to the sources (after being obtained from Pakistan's nuclear command authority) published by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), the definition of four potential thresholds has been refined in the form of four thresholds which were first mentioned by officials at the nuclear command authority in late 2001.[3]

Spatial Threshold[3]—— The armed and military penetration of Indian Armed Forces into Pakistan on large scale may elicit a nuclearize massive retaliation, if and only if the Pakistan Army is unable to stop such intervention. For instance, many analysts, including some Indians, believe that the Indus Valley— the "lifeline" of Pakistan— is one of many other "red lines" that Indian forces should not cross. The capture of key objectives in this crucial northeast–southwest axis might well provoke nuclear retaliation by Pakistan.
Military Threshold[3]—— The complete knockout or comprehensive destruction of a large part of Pakistan Armed Forces, particularly and most importantly the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), could lead to a quick nuclear response if Islamabad believed that it was losing the cohesiveness of its defence and feared imminent defeat. A senior ranking PAF officer maintained that "orders given to PAF (and its missile command) are identical to the guidelines given to the NATO commanders during the Cold war crises. This criterion is even more important for the Pakistan Armed Forces because of its critical role in maintaining the country’s stability. As noted above, an attack on a nuclear installation has also been posited as a threshold. According to PAF, this level of threshold also included the chemical or biological weapons attack against Pakistan, would also respond to massive retaliation.[4]
Economic Threshold[3]—— This level implicitly and explicitly refers for the countermeasure operations of Pakistan Navy. The economic strangulation and economic blackade is also a potential threat to Pakistan, in which if Pakistan Navy is unable to counter it effectively (for example, see operations: Trident and Python in 1971). This primarily refers to a potential Indian Navy blockade of Sindh Province and coastal cities of Balochistan Province, or the stopping of the Indus water flow. It could also refer to the capture of vital arteries such as the Indus.
Political Threshold[3]—— Finally, Pakistan's geostrategist, game theorists and political strategists and planners suggest that a destabilization of the country by India could also be a nuclear threshold if Islamabad has credible proves to believe that the integrity of the country were at stake. Stated scenarios are political destabilization or large-scale internal destabilization in which if Pakistan Marines (along with other paramilitary command) are unable to stabilized it effectively. One example would be encouraging the breakaway of one or more Pakistan's provinces. (for example, see: the Bangladesh Liberation War)

ORANGZEIB.

Your CRAZY suggestion that NUCLEAR weapons will be used in a BLOCKADE is the worst post YET in this already rediculous thread...

NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD will go NUCLEAR until it knows its about to be decimated by a SUPERIOR CONVENTIONAL MILITARY POWER..

IMO india cannot decimate ENTIRE PAKISTAN in a full throttle conventional war.

THEY CAN BLOCKADE YOU.
They can knockout your 3 naval bases and destro some infrastucture

THAT WILL NOT RESULT IN A NUCLEAR STRIKE that is a rediculous suggestion.

 

[Mitro]

I think PN is going slowly going to achieve these target in 10 years

Future------------------------------------ Present
1) Dedicated Naval Squadron ----------------- Jf-17 ,Mirage 5[Cm400AKG,C-802A,Exocet]
2) 10 Frigate ----------------- F22P [C-802]
3) 10 Submarine ----------------- Agosta90B[Exocet]
4) 02 Nuclear Submarine ------------------- Working on the prototype
5) 02 Type 054A frigate lease agreement --------------------------
6) 12 Fast attack craft ------------------ PNS Azmat

If economy improve then may be in 5 years .

 

[MilSpec]

I think PN is going slowly going to achieve these target in 10 years

Future------------------------------------ Present
1) Dedicated Naval Squadron ----------------- Jf-17 ,Mirage 5[Cm400AKG,C-802A,Exocet]
2) 10 Frigate ----------------- F22P [C-802]
3) 10 Submarine ----------------- Agosta90B[Exocet]
4) 02 Nuclear Submarine ------------------- Working on the prototype
5) 02 Type 054A frigate lease agreement --------------------------
6) 12 Fast attack craft ------------------ PNS Azmat

If economy improve then may be in 5 years .

Pakistani Army has and will continue to starve PAF and PN for funds....

 

[Mitro]

I think they already realise their mistake and will do more to support them in future and PA is equally match with our Army so they will divert more fund to PAF and PN in the future .
Future war will be fought on all front they can not afford weak Navy like they did before.

Pakistani Army has and will continue to starve PAF and PN for funds....

 

[Penguin]

Alternate solution for Pakistan Navy to counter Large Navies? To have a great many alliances with other countroes in the affected region.

 

[muse]

Other Lilliputians as allies - Gullivers of the world beware!

 

[Genesis]

why not go for missiles? China has no carrier group, but if US gets close China can make sure the US won't have one either.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Levels of Pakistan's Nuclear Threshold

The doctrine is not the part of the Minimum Credible Deterrence principle of Pakistan, however, the doctrine is integrated the nuclear dimension into its defence principle. According to the sources (after being obtained from Pakistan's nuclear command authority) published by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), the definition of four potential thresholds has been refined in the form of four thresholds which were first mentioned by officials at the nuclear command authority in late 2001.

Spatial Threshold:
The armed and military penetration of Indian Armed Forces into Pakistan on large scale may elicit a nuclearize massive retaliation, if and only if the Pakistan Army is unable to stop such intervention. For instance, many analysts, including some Indians, believe that the Indus Valley— the "lifeline" of Pakistan— is one of many other "red lines" that Indian forces should not cross. The capture of key objectives in this crucial northeast–southwest axis might well provoke nuclear retaliation by Pakistan.

Military Threshold:
The complete knockout or comprehensive destruction of a large part of Pakistan Armed Forces, particularly and most importantly the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), could lead to a quick nuclear response if Islamabad believed that it was losing the cohesiveness of its defence and feared imminent defeat. A senior ranking PAF officer maintained that "orders given to PAF (and its missile command) are identical to the guidelines given to the NATO commanders during the Cold war crises. This criterion is even more important for the Pakistan Armed Forces because of its critical role in maintaining the country’s stability. As noted above, an attack on a nuclear installation has also been posited as a threshold. According to PAF, this level of threshold also included the chemical or biological weapons attack against Pakistan, would also respond to massive retaliation.

Economic Threshold
This level implicitly and explicitly refers for the countermeasure operations of Pakistan Navy. The economic strangulation and economic blockade is also a potential threat to Pakistan, in which if Pakistan Navy is unable to counter it effectively. This primarily refers to a potential Indian Navy blockade of Sindh Province and coastal cities of Balochistan Province, or the stopping of the Indus water flow. It could also refer to the capture of vital arteries such as the Indus.

Political Threshold
Finally, Pakistan's geostrategist, game theorists and political strategists and planners suggest that a destabilization of the country by India could also be a nuclear threshold if Islamabad has credible proves to believe that the integrity of the country were at stake. Stated scenarios are political destabilization or large-scale internal destabilization in which if Pakistan Marines (along with other paramilitary command) are unable to stabilized it effectively. One example would be encouraging the breakaway of one or more Pakistan's provinces.

surprising to read nuk threshold is set even at economic blockade,stopping of flow of indus rivers etc, I still think it is for enemy's consumption and deter rather than a real policy, even with out blockade pak any way will run out of resources quickly than India, so does that also qualifies a nuk retaliation ? after all that situation also qualifies to the discussion of economic military destabilization.

 

[Rajesh_Singh1984]

I think pakistan navy should have some fighter aircraft's and anti ship missiles. also, make some frigates and destroyer in pakistan. at least try to do so...