Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[MMM-E]

how many M-60TM are already in service?

around 170

Turkish Army M-60TM Tank in combat area - October 2019 / Syria

 

[Foinikas]

Most of the operations carried out by the Turkish forces are against terrorist organizations fighting in guerrilla style and tanks are barely used in this type of warfare, the tank inventory of all our competitors, except Greece, is weak. This is why the most of the investments are spend on the air force and the navy, if we do not take the right steps for the air force now, it can turn into our soft belly in 5 years. But ground forces will be fine.
And biggest reason why the TFX project is going so fast is that Turkey was one of the countries that produce some F35 parts and produced the F16s under license. So we didnt start TFX project without zero experience

That makes more sense actually

 

[hyperman]

What's weird...is that ok,the Altay has been a project far older than the TFX,if I'm not mistaken. And a far simpler project than making a 5th generation stealth fighter. Now here's the thing,how can the government and the Turkish defence industry,announce a maiden flight so fast? And it's defence experts and analysts who wonder about it,how can you rush the first flight 2-3 years earlier than planned,even if you work like crazy. How can a newcomer country design and fly a fighter jet in less than 10 years? Unless the government is pushing for it to be ready,even if it still has a lot of work.

Not exactly, the TF-X project project is older in the sense that design work was going on far before it ever got officially announced(also subcomponents from other projects and experience from the f-16 and f-25 programs also mean that the work wasn't fully from scratch). With regards to the Altay, the issue is over mass production, not the development of the tank. technically the Altay was already developed much earlier, in fact the first prototypes with the German powerplant as you know was produced much earlier, the problem is that the syrian war happened, and with the emergence of the PKK, forced Turkey's hand in an intervention, which resulted in Germany suspending sales of the powerpack with which it was supposed to go into mass production with. This caused an issue where for some time, several years were wasted in trying to convince the German govt to allow the sale of the powerpack, but with no breakthrough, the decision was made to redesign the tank using the South Korean powerplant, and now if the tests of the new tank with the south korean powerplant is set to begin as the initual prototypes are set for delivery in May, if that goes well, and the south korean powerplant is going to be used in the mass production, then later down the road, a turkish powerplant(engine should be finished first, then transmission) is set to be delivered, and block 2 mass production will be with the Turkish powerplant, similar to how the Korean used the German powerplant for their initial mass production of the K2 Panther, then switched to a korean engine with a german transmission and now set to in a short while, fully switch over to a korean powerpack.

just for the record MTU produce of 20.000 large to superlarge diesel engines a year...

How many MTU MT883 Ka-500 do they produce though? I don't believe they are produced in the same volume as regular commercial diesel engines. Tank engines and transmissions are a bit complicated.

 

[LegionnairE]

Most of the operations carried out by the Turkish forces are against terrorist organizations fighting in guerrilla style and tanks are barely used in this type of warfare, the tank inventory of all our competitors, except Greece, is weak. This is why the most of the investments are spend on the air force and the navy, if we do not take the right steps for the air force now, it can turn into our soft belly in 5 years. But ground forces will be fine.
And biggest reason why the TFX project is going so fast is that Turkey was one of the countries that produce some F35 parts and produced the F16s under license. So we didnt start TFX project without zero experience

This doesn't have to be. Tanks could offer incredible anti-personnel fire if you have the correct ammo. We just don't have good ammo

I hate the Abrams but Americans are making great fucking ammo.

We're just very weak in the tank department. The absolutely moronic decision to cancel Aselsan's Leopard 2 NG upgrade costed us a lot of tanks and a lot of lives.

I just hope that TAF draws the correct lessons from the losses in Syria.

 

[hyperman]

If Aksungur were designed from scratch nowadays, Aksungur would have been designed with TEI PD-170 engine and Aselsan CATS.

yeah but if you were to design the Aksungur nowadays and you didn't have the PD-170 and Aselsan CATS developed, what would you do?

 

[LegionnairE]

yeah but if you were to design the Aksungur nowadays and you didn't have the PD-170 and Aselsan CATS developed, what would you do?

This guy is seriously mentally challanged

 

[hyperman]

It's not about MTU producing and delivering these power packs in a short time. Contracting the supply of power packs, that's the point. If they signed, they would have delivered the 250 power packs on time. We would have designed the tank with peace of mind to fit the German power pack.

But I think the Germans would have avoided signing this contract, I am one hundred percent sure of that.

even if you contract(lets assume the money is there to pay for 250 in one go), how can one guarantee that they will not interrupt delivery in the middle and say you only ended up with 30 engines before deliveries froze(say an emergency happened, and it was critical for Turkey to launch operations that Germany was likely to oppose), Say Turkey put the order in around 2016, right after all the testing finished, do you put in the mass order in before testing finishes, b/c say testing happens and b/c of some design flaws, that particular model variant of the engine isn't working well and you need MTU to modify it to fit your deigns needs, what do you do? now you are stuck with order for engines that have design flaw, there is a lot of trickery with trying to rush steps, its all a game of calculated risk, sometimes, its going to play in your favor, sometimes its not, there are upsides and downside to every development path chosen.

This guy is seriously mentally challanged

you don't seem to understand the underlying point I was raising(namely that there is no "perfect" developmental solution and idealized circumstances), perhaps english is not your first language in which case its understandable if you didn't get my point.

 

[Trisolaran]

This doesn't have to be. Tanks could offer incredible anti-personnel fire if you have the correct ammo. We just don't have good ammo

I hate the Abrams but Americans are making great fucking ammo.

We're just very weak in the tank department. The absolutely moronic decision to cancel Aselsan's Leopard 2 NG upgrade costed us a lot of tanks and a lot of lives.

I just hope that TAF draws the correct lessons from the losses in Syria.

Leopard tanks would be big heavy targets in northern Iraq or Afrin
I think we don't know exactly what we want as a tank. We say modernized M60 tanks are better than Leopard tanks for us but we try to build something like Leopard tank..
Germans built these tanks to fight in the eastern European steppes and thats why
it performed lower than the M60 in mountainous geography like Afrin, I thing we need a tank like the Japanese Type 10 or M60 that can have the high mobility in our region so we can easily use them in terror operations.

 

[LegionnairE]

you don't seem to understand the underlying point I was raising(namely that there is no "perfect" developmental solution and idealized circumstances), perhaps english is not your first language in which case its understandable if you didn't get my point.

When your brain dies, you don't feel anything. It's only painful to those around you.

You're such a fucking retard It's not even funny.

 

[hyperman]

Leopard tanks would be big heavy targets in northern Iraq or Afrin
I think we don't know exactly what we want as a tank. We say modernized M60 tanks are better than Leopard tanks for us but we try to build something like Leopard tank..
Germans built these tanks to fight in the eastern European steppes and thats why
it performed lower than the M60 in mountainous geography like Afrin, I thing we need a tank like the Japanese Type 10 or M60 that can have the high mobility in our region so we can easily use them in terror operations.

Wasn't there a light tank developed by Turkey called the Kaplan MT, to supplement for very such operations that require a smaller and more mobile equipment? what happened to it?

 

[Trisolaran]

Wasn't there a light tank developed by Turkey called the Kaplan MT, to supplement for very such operations that require a smaller and more mobile equipment? what happened to it?

I dont remember that the Turkish army ordered the Kaptal MT tank,
FNSS company only produced this for Indonesian army but I could be wrong
however, what we need is the tank to have high mobility in mountainous areas, but at the same time, it should be maximum resistant against RPG, mines and ATGM systems.

 

[LegionnairE]

Leopard tanks would be big heavy targets in northern Iraq or Afrin
I think we don't know exactly what we want as a tank. We say modernized M60 tanks are better than Leopard tanks for us but we try to build something like Leopard tank..
Germans built these tanks to fight in the eastern European steppes and thats why
it performed lower than the M60 in mountainous geography like Afrin, I thing we need a tank like the Japanese Type 10 or M60 that can have the high mobility in our region so we can easily use them in terror operations.

If you use them correctly, keep them behind cover, use the correct tactics, provide sufficient infantry cover (instead of uneducated FSA cannon fodder) they become unstoppable. Top-attack ATGMs are the biggest problem but they don't exist in Syria.

M60 isn't better than Leopard, it's an even bigger target due to higher profile. The problem with Leo2 was that our leaders in their infinite wisdom decided that Leopard 2 NG upgrade was too expensive.

 

[hyperman]

have high mobility in mountainous areas, but at the same time, it should be maximum resistant against RPG, mines and ATGM systems.

Yes and I want to date a sugar momma who looks like Scarlett Johansson.

gotto pick one, can't be light and mobile and also maximum protection with heavy armor.

 

[Trisolaran]

If you use them correctly, keep them behind cover, use the correct tactics, provide sufficient infantry cover (instead of uneducated FSA cannon fodder) they become unstoppable. Top-attack ATGMs are the biggest problem but they don't exist in Syria.

M60 isn't better than Leopard, it's an even bigger target due to higher profile. The problem with Leo2 was that our leaders in their infinite wisdom decided that Leopard 2 NG upgrade was too expensive.

Honestly this Tank issue is a mess for this country, I don't think I'm an expert in the tank field but that Leopards and maybe Altay can serve very well in Syria with greater efficiency but can they show same effect in Northern Iraq and other potential fronts? This is the big issue for me

Yes and I want to date a sugar momma who looks like Scarlett Johansson.

gotto pick one, can't be light and mobile and also maximum protection with heavy armor.

What I wanted to say is Turkish version of Type 10 with nano crystal steel and active protection is what we realy need..

 

[Deino]

Reality hurts you

M60TM far better than Leopard2HEL in urban warfare
real military experts very well knows about it

what about Greek Army Leopard-2HEL Tanks ?

NO hard kill Active Protection System
NO Close Range Surveillance System
NO Telescopic Periscope System
NO Beyond Armor Vision System
NO even Remote Weapon Platform


Turkish Army modernized M-60TM Tanks have superior capability for urban warfare

German MTU Engine and RENK 304S Transmission
İsraeli 120 mm Gun , RWR/IR warning systems from the Merkava IV Tank

-- Volkan-M new generation Fire Control System
-- Tank Command Control Combat Information System
-- New Explosive Reactive Armor ERA
-- The hybrid electric and hydraulic system
-- Tank Laser Warning System (TLUS)
-- Tank Driver Vision System (TDVS)
-- Fire Suppression System
-- Smoke Grenade Launchers
-- Air Conditioning System
-- Auxiliary Power Unit and Audible Warning System
-- 12,7mm SARP Stabilized Advanced Remote Weapon Platform
-- PULAT hard kill Active Protection System

Close Range Surveillance System (YAMGÖZ)
Telescopic Periscope System (TEPES)
Interior Primer Protection (SPALL LINER)
Beyond Armor Vision System ( BITES )


We have great real experience for urban warfare in Syria
and we modernized our Tanks for urban warfare


Foinikas using DEINO to spam my posts ...enough trolling and provoking

@WebMaster , @Kompromat , @waz

OMG You are truly such a looser!

Again, it is irrelevant, neither the M-60 was necessary to be mentioned nor the Leo, it was just again a chest-bumping act of provocation, trolling and most likely intended as to eagerly feel offended and insult in return!!