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After Sukhoi 'mistake', India to go for Russian 5th-generation fighter only on full-tech transfer pa

BS Indians says they earned quite know how from Sukhoi program. So all was that a lie?

Secondly, NO one will offer you full on TOT for peanuts. Like seriously. YOu guys ave already invested a billion on this. Go on with it.

No one will give full TOT :lol:, Parrikar and Modi know this. They are creating conditions to drop the FGFA deal and blame Russia.
And then get waht f-35 with even more stringer requirements ?
 
Why you Indians are so confident that India will not consider F-35 over PAK-FA? Its the best available jet around. Also you may ink F16 assembly deal with US which seemed impossible a decade back.
After a very long time after reading for past few years.. Finally I found ppl like u who thing un biased.. Good to know u.. Keep the spirit up n speak facts n logic n left behind all the jingoism n fundamentalism..
 
Poor you...
It's just because local companies will be able to produce spares in no time & we will get royalty if we sell to any third party else there is no meaning to invest 50 50..
Our previous govt was worthless.We made a mistake during SU30.This is the reason we had been suffering due to lack of spares & had to import spares from Russia.That's why now we are going to sign pacts for improving license production of spares..

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ty-could-go-up-to-75/articleshow/50075387.cms
Mistake !!! are you friggin serious. Dude please you got all infrastructure set up with that of Avaiation. YOu simply cant diss the know how factor, though how much mininal it is

If Russia wants to loose 25bn worth contract..Pity on them...:oops:
Still to cheap for full TOT. Increase your price. :D
 
Russia won't sell tech to India due to USA love

Poor Information. Money Rules the World.
But..its ook... I can understand that being "ELITE" member does give certain limitations , so let me help you with NO Parallels :

Brahmos
Submarine Reactor
Cryo Engines

Even Green Pine was sold by Israel despite reservations by the US.
 
From Russian view purely on business terms

You don't piss off your biggest most important customer. India is a huge customer .

25 billion dollars for next generation fighter is massive.

But this is the new India
Sixth largest gdp about twice the size of Russia

So if India is l suggests tot and improvements to fgfa to meet criteria then Russia needs to listen

Or they will not get order.

I don't think India needs fgfa until 2025

India will induct tejas
Carry out massive upgrade on mki
Order more rafale

The amca will grow into reality by 2030.

Fgfa will not be acquired other than sixty fighters to replace Mig29 in 2025 if the Russians play ball
 
Poor Information. Money Rules the World.
But..its ook... I can understand that being "ELITE" member does give certain limitations , so let me help you with NO Parallels :

Brahmos
Submarine Reactor
Cryo Engines

Even Green Pine was sold by Israel despite reservations by the US.
Stil dude even if u pay 50bn upfromt on cash they still wont give you full TECH. Come on. That is prized asset
 
After Sukhoi 'mistake', India to go for Russian 5th-generation fighter only on full-tech transfer pact

View attachment 382677
File photo shows aircraft Sukhoi at Aero India 2017


NEW DELHI: India will go in for the multi-billion dollar joint development and production of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with Russia only if there is full-scale transfer of technology as well as "benefits" for the indigenous effort to build a futuristic stealth fighter.

Defence ministry sources say this decision has been taken at the "highest levels" in order to "not repeat the mistakes" of the entire Sukhoi-30MKI jet acquisition programme from Russia, which cost India Rs 55,717 crore without any tangible help in developing indigenous fighter-manufacturing capabilities.

"Though bulk of the 272 Sukhois (240 inducted till now) contracted from Russia have been made by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL), they have been basically assembled here with imported knocked-down kits. HAL still cannot manufacture the Sukhois on its own," said a source. A HAL-made Sukhoi (around Rs 450 crore) also costs Rs 100 crore more than the price of the same jet imported from Russia.

So, despite Russian pressure to ink the long-pending final R&D contract for the FGFA, India now wants to know whether it will get good value for the estimated $25 billion it will spend to induct 127 of these single-seat jets. The two countries, incidentally, had inked the FGFA inter-governmental agreement way back in 2007, which was followed by a $295 million preliminary design contract in 2010 before the negotiations stalled.

India has now laid down two essential prerequisites for the FGFA project, apart from examining its entire cost-effectiveness. One, there should be extensive technology transfer, including the "source codes", to ensure India can in the future upgrade the fighter with integration of new weapons on its own. Two, it should directly help the indigenous FGFA project called the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), the preliminary design work for which is now under way, as was earlier reported by TOI.

"This is mandatory. A high-level committee headed by an Air Marshal from IAF, which includes an IIT Kanpur professor and former chiefs of HAL and National Aerospace Laboratories, is examining all these aspects. The government will take a call after the report is submitted in April," said the source. A swing-role FGFA basically combines advanced stealth, supercruise capability (achieving supersonic cruise speeds without use of afterburners), super-maneuverability, data fusion and multi-sensor integration on a single fighter.

But IAF has been unhappy with the Russian FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA because the jet lacks proper stealth and its engine does not have "enough thrust", which are among 43 critical modifications or shortcomings it pointed out earlier.
Russia, however, is now promising the Indian FGFA or the "perspective multi-role fighter" will be quite different from the Sukhoi T-50, with more powerful engines and other capabilities. Under the main R&D contract, India and Russia are supposed to contribute $4 billion each for prototype development, testing and infrastructure build-up.Deliveries of the fighters, which will cost extra, were earlier supposed to begin 94 months after it was inked.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...h-full-tech-transfer/articleshow/57546519.cms
personally the deal would fall and or best case it would be a mki scenario again.
nobody just gives tot and tech away like that even its it for billions. and with india leaning to the west and the usn calling india for port then the risk for tech leaks are high. why doesnt india ask for full tot for the rafale?
@Taygibay @Vergennes

@Abingdonboy @Gessler
what do you guys think.
would russia hand over tot and the source codes to the point india can make them on their own?
 
Aaaa..Think Tank ..Think More ,Su 30 Mki got French , Israeli and Indian components which obviously more expensive while Russian version of Su 30 mki mostly got Israeli and Indian mix but french get replaced with Russian as they never allow their components to be in Russia.So many of the reason why they are expensive in India.
2> Does that stop India produce Su MKI from raw material? Ans is No,a big No beacause now even India expertised the engine AL-31F too.While we still Imports the titanium sponge from Russia due to contract even if we full capable to do it.
https://www.google.co.in/search?q=A...1EIW58QWZ0K3AAg&start=10&sa=N&biw=360&bih=616
plz tell this to YOUR OWN PRESS (I just quoted the part of the news) & to the previous HAL CHAIRMAN ...
HAL Chairman R.K. Tyagi said in December 2012 that after 42 more knockdown kits had been ordered, HAL's licence-produced Su-30MKI output would total 222 aircraft. Thus, considering the ready-made Su-30MKIs delivered by Irkut, IAF will have a fleet of 272 aircraft of the type in the end.
http://en.take-off.ru/news/108-nov2012/957-150th-su-30mki-assembled-by-hal-was-handed-over-to-iaf-
no need to beat your chest here unnecessarily .... I still need to see any OFFICIAL statement confirming the THE BIG CLAIM you & other fan boys made here regularly .... till than
so sad.gif

...... :kiss3:
 
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Ever since Secy Hillary Clinton visited India to push for F-35, it was clear there was no way for India to select anything else as the major fighter ac. India is deep into the Yankee's pocket to make independent decision in such crucial deals.
of-course...F-16, F-18 are already in our service because they pushed for that as well...people can help mate however if you pretend to be blind then no one can!!
 
plz tell this to YOUR OWN PRESS (I just quoted the part of the news) & to the previous HAL CHAIRMAN ...

no need beat your chest here unnecessarily .... I still need to see any OFFICIAL statement confirming the THE BIG CLAIM you & other fan boys made here regularly .... till than
View attachment 382732
...... :kiss3:


We originally received standard Su-30MKs while our government and industry worked with the Russians to develop the more advanced Su-30MKI....To complete with ability like thrust-vectoring engines and canard foreplanes it ended up using electronic systems from countries like a Russian NIIP N-011 radar and long-range IRST sensor, French navigation and heads-up display systems from Thales, Israeli electronic warfare systems and LITENING advanced targeting pods, and Indian computers and ancillary avionics systems.That is the main reason cost went well above than the first ordered..
 
Your "reading " of the article is astounding , considering its HAL who assembles the kits and makes the su30mki platforms not DRDO.
So that's what you got out of my writing but couldn't understand who does India's research. Still HAL or DRDo can't make planes is what the article is saying and FGfA has to be imported
 
Su-30MKI give IAF quantity and Quality .. it does not matter if India is making them in India or Assembling them but point is that its a Good Fighter .. what i am seeing that IAF wants to re-enter French Market with Rafale .. it will be very interesting to see Which Fighter IN will choose to replace Mig-29's ... my Bet is F-18 Super Hornet / F-35
 
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