Aero India 2023

[SQ8]

Great info on HLFT 42, HVT answering questions.
Loved that he mentioned, there is a indigenous option too for powerplant, but with a rider 'as and when it gets certified'. So this means that Kaveri still has a chance

Bad idea for Kaveri at this point - India should go all in for the GE line up and play as dirty as possible to get them to set up a 404 family line with complete ToT.

I know the temptation also goes towards the M-53 Snecma series but the 404 variants brings with it additional GE production options such as commercial and moving to helicopter engines. Snecma has the heli engines but not the come right variety GE can offer.
GE can also be pushed on other aspects - power turbines and the lot to really make India a turbine power plant center.

China has only itself to now built knowledge on whereas every country in the world right now wants to invest in India(for themselves off course) including bringing in knowledge

 

[IblinI]

Compilations of all the stuff and info.

Directed Energy Weapon Pod.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624726282373312514

DRDO AEWCS Mk-2

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624655323549298688

View attachment 916184

HLFT-42

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624647845633724416

View attachment 916185View attachment 916186

HF-73 a further design of HF-24 Marut. An inspiration for HLFT42.

So the next AEWC in line is still 240 degree coverage? why not 360 degree mushroom on the top?

 

[indushek]

Bad idea for Kaveri at this point - India should go all in for the GE line up and play as dirty as possible to get them to set up a 404 family line with complete ToT.

I know the temptation also goes towards the M-53 Snecma series but the 404 variants brings with it additional GE production options such as commercial and moving to helicopter engines. Snecma has the heli engines but not the come right variety GE can offer.
GE can also be pushed on other aspects - power turbines and the lot to really make India a turbine power plant center.

China has only itself to now built knowledge on whereas every country in the world right now wants to invest in India(for themselves off course) including bringing in knowledge

I see the wisdom in your words, as partnering with a established firm like GE, will bring in much needed knowledge.

However will it not hurt the local growth? I mean I totally understand that, if GTRE were to work on this on their own as they did so far, it will be even more time before we have a working thing.

I maybe wrong but this whole lovey dovey stuff going on currently with West, is all aimed towards China and money of course. Our miliary folk seem to think just like you, and are betting heavily on GE 404 and 414 right now. Can't fault our military as well, cause they will like to go with what is available.

My only worry is, what happens when USA decides to pull the rug from under the feet of India someday in future? If we are not prepared for that day, we will be caught with pants down very easily. All I am saying is that, we shouldn't stop working on Kaveri. It need not be used in any of the critical platforms like LCA MK2 or AMCA or TEDBF.

However it can be used on one or two squadrons somewhere maybe, I mean am just a noob with no practical military knowledge.

My point is only based on future safety for Indian military interests here. So Kaveri making it's way into HLFT 42 can actually help it stay alive right? oh and having a local platform like Kaveri can help in Exports too I feel. From what I read, when it came to selling stuff to certain countries for example Argentina, India had to do away with British components (Martin Baker ejection seat, I am only talking about the requirements for this sale, this sale has not happened and doubtful it will even though). What if tomorrow we want to sell, to someone we want to get into a relation with, and US isn't happy with it. Tries to stall the deal by sanctioning US components etc, in such case remove GE and strap on Kaveri?

Again noob thoughts I know, as am not sure if this is possible even practically. Just hedge our bets is what am saying, and have Kaveri as a backup.

 

[datafreak]

Bad idea for Kaveri at this point - India should go all in for the GE line up and play as dirty as possible to get them to set up a 404 family line with complete ToT.

I know the temptation also goes towards the M-53 Snecma series but the 404 variants brings with it additional GE production options such as commercial and moving to helicopter engines. Snecma has the heli engines but not the come right variety GE can offer.
GE can also be pushed on other aspects - power turbines and the lot to really make India a turbine power plant center.

China has only itself to now built knowledge on whereas every country in the world right now wants to invest in India(for themselves off course) including bringing in knowledge

India's engine requirements don't stop with one requirement. We need engines for fighters, drones, naval requirements and helicopters. Core tech, once mastered is modfied.

 

[datafreak]

So the next AEWC in line is still 240 degree coverage? why not 360 degree mushroom on the top?

That's a different project running in parallel

 

[IblinI]

That's a different project running in parallel

What are the timeline for both?

 

[MirageBlue]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624436134393823232

I always have said this-

These internet forums or social media don't mean much, with the amount of propaganda that goes on here. What matters is what is happening on the ground.

On PDF, Pakistanis and their coterie love to mock India while being absolutely unaware of the ground realities in India and Pakistan. I always said, I couldn't care less what they said because it didn't make a whit of a difference in the real world.

The Tejas and ALH program were the bedrock of Indian aviation industry with hundreds of MSMEs and private suppliers that it spawned. Apart from those programs, DRDO has had dozens upon dozens of other programs in missiles, radars, electronics, avionics, artillery, armoured vehicles, etc. that have developed hundreds of other private sector enterprises.

Simply speaking, bringing in the large, medium and small private sector enterprises into defence R&D and manufacturing in a big way with technology infusion from DRDO has created scale that never existed earlier and a hunger for orders that will lead to exports like never before.

The fruits of all this will now begin to show as PM Modi's vision of developing India into a defence export major have lead to major changes in import and export policies. Banning hundreds of items from being imported was a major step in that direction. Then opening up several sectors to private firms and smoothening defence exports has been another.

 

[datafreak]

What are the timeline for both?

This one comes online first. 8 jets have been transferred from Air India to IAF to convert to AEW. This version will be used more because it is cheaper to operate in peacetime patrolling.

I always have said this-

These internet forums or social media don't mean much, with the amount of propaganda that goes on here. What matters is what is happening on the ground.

On PDF, Pakistanis and their coterie love to mock India while being absolutely unaware of the ground realities in India and Pakistan. I always said, I couldn't care less what they said because it didn't make a whit of a difference in the real world.

The Tejas and ALH program were the bedrock of Indian aviation industry with hundreds of MSMEs and private suppliers that it spawned. Apart from those programs, DRDO has had dozens upon dozens of other programs in missiles, radars, electronics, avionics, artillery, armoured vehicles, etc. that have developed hundreds of other private sector enterprises.

Simply speaking, bringing in the large, medium and small private sector enterprises into defence R&D and manufacturing in a big way with technology infusion from DRDO has created scale that never existed earlier and a hunger for orders that will lead to exports like never before.

The fruits of all this will now begin to show as PM Modi's vision of developing India into a defence export major have lead to major changes in import and export policies. Banning hundreds of items from being imported was a major step in that direction. Then opening up several sectors to private firms and smoothening defence exports has been another.

ALh was similarly mocked both within and outside India. But once it took off we sold 100s, made different versions and is currently the biggest acquistion for helicopters in India

 

[MirageBlue]

A little bit of explanation on, why HAL is working on HLFT 42.

I still believe that this HLFT-42 design needs improvements. What he said confirms that the design is not frozen but they kind of know that the configuration will look like this.

Basically we'll see a much more refined design if this concept goes forward.

But it is good to hear from HVT about the antecedents of the HLFT-42. So the program came into being due to the USAF's Trainer contest for which an RFI was shared with HAL. Tejas trainer needed too many changes (both going back to prior to it's design as well as forwards) to meet that requirement, which led to HAL looking at a clean sheet design.

Essentially he's saying that the engine will not be a F-404 class engine but larger. Given that he's talking about Mirage-2000 class performance and payload, it has to be a F-414 which at 98kN is very similar in dry and AB thrust to the M-53P2 on the Mirage-2000.

 

[indushek]

I still believe that this HLFT-42 design needs improvements. What he said confirms that the design is not frozen but they kind of know that the configuration will look like this.

Basically we'll see a much more refined design if this concept goes forward.

But it is good to hear from HVT about the antecedents of the HLFT-42. So the program came into being due to the USAF's Trainer contest for which an RFI was shared with HAL. Tejas trainer needed too many changes (both going back to prior to it's design as well as forwards) to meet that requirement, which led to HAL looking at a clean sheet design.

Essentially he's saying that the engine will not be a F-404 class engine but larger. Given that he's talking about Mirage-2000 class performance and payload, it has to be a F-414 which at 98kN is very similar in dry and AB thrust to the M-53P2 on the Mirage-2000.

Yes I found that very encouraging actually, that our guys are trying to compete for overseas orders. Not only that, but are also learning from the experiences out there.

Yes I have seen many people saying, what you just said that the design needs more refinement. Maybe they will refine it further, and am sure Airforce must be giving some feedback to make it suitable. So basically it's a trainer for next decade more or less, and that makes sense too with so many indigenous platforms set to be inducted soon. Personally it looks like a miniature f-16 to me, maybe my way of looking at it.

The powerplant part is very curious right? I mean why do they want such a powerful LIFT platform? I thought trainers should be easy to fly and cheap as well, will this not make it costly?

I still hope Kaveri comes in somewhere, there is talk about cranking up it's present performance. I think it's @datafreak who mentioned about it here somewhere. I also read somewhere about a retired Airforce personnel, forget who it is, writing on the need of keeping on working with Kaveri to operationalize it. Some day it will be useful for us, it can't be ignored I feel.

 

[MirageBlue]

C-390 at Aero India 2023.

Embraer has offered it to India and now with the IAF releasing an RFI for another medium transport aircraft (MTA) in the class of the C-130J, the C-390 offering becomes that much more valid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625337375600807936

You can read the IAF's Medium Transport Aircraft RFI here

 

[MirageBlue]

Dr Samir Kamat, DRDO Chairman

-LCA AF Mk2 (aka Tejas Mk2) will be ready for induction by 2028
-AMCA Mk1 with GE F-414 engine will fly in 7 years' time by 2030 and induction into service may happen by 2033.
-AMCA Mk2 with a higher thrust engine to be created as part of a JV - no timeline given as the engine JV has not yet been formed

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625332229298855940

GaN MMICs from Aelius Semi

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625355265506942977

 

[MirageBlue]

Aero India Tejas Mk1

Image credit - Livefist

Tejas trainer, HTT-40, HJT-36 and Hawk

This is a crucial DRDO program that is currently under development. the DRDO ISTAR

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625329942887301121

 

[MirageBlue]

Tejas Mk1 FOC fighter with assymetrical load out

1 X R-73E CCM
1 X Derby BVRAAM
1 X Griffin LGB
1 X 500 LB dumb bomb
1 X Litening II LDP
1 X Drop tank
1 X Astra Mk1 BVRAAM
1 X DRDO ASPJ

The Astra BVRAAM motor diameter is greater than that of the Derby BVRAAM.

image credit- Vayu Review

 

[Deino]

I will be formally offered during Biden Modi meet.

Never … as Long as India has to many Russians systems in its forces, this is plain impossible