Ababeel SSM - Pakistan gains MIRV technology.

[ShoutB]

Your estimation of ballistic coefficient is incorrect.

this is not my estimation but experimental
ß for MIRVd warheads is 1000 -5000

1. The missile didn't even travel to 2200km. In this test, it flew a mere 1100km.

if it flew for 1100km this means the war heads were released when the missile was already 700km in down range and altitude close to 150kms. This means there was no bus hence not MIRVd.

For this trajectory which would be extremely steep close to 55-60 degrees ( re entry angle) value of ballistic coefficient would be more than 5000 to reach 1100km. And the time taken would be 1-2 mins. And second warhead would not be present because then the bus would have crossed limit for releasing the warhead to reach 1100km down range but if now released it will fall 1500km. But due to earth gravitation, the MIRV has to slower it's speed for de orbiting which did not happen and no warhead hit 2200km as per your claim.

PBV begins course adjustments as soon as boost-phase ends. Immediately after that, it executes pitch maneuvers and begins injecting the RVs in their respective sub-orbital trajectories. This happens BEFORE the PBV reaches apogee, not after reaching 'hostile space'.

for India it will be already in hostile environment dude lol

 

[The Deterrent]

this is not my estimation but experimental
ß for MIRVd warheads is 1000 -5000

Did you get an official document from NESCOM stating that the ballistic coefficient of Ababeel's RVs is >1000? Did you?
No. You read an online source about US/Russian MIRVs, assuming that Pakistan's was in the same class.

if it flew for 1100km this means the war heads were released when the missile was already 700km in down range and altitude close to 150kms. This means there was no bus hence not MIRVd.

For this trajectory which would be extremely steep close to 55-60 degrees ( re entry angle) value of ballistic coefficient would be more than 5000 to reach 1100km. And the time taken would be 1-2 mins. And second warhead would not be present because then the bus would have crossed limit for releasing the warhead to reach 1100km down but if now released it will fall 1500km. But due to earth gravitation, the MIRV has to slower it's speed for de orbiting which did not happen and no warhead hit 2200km as per your claim.

It does not means what YOU want it to mean. You have absolutely no idea at which altitude the MIRVs are jettisoned. You are constantly assuming that somehow only lateral range is related to the MIRV jettisoning calculations.

Stop ridiculing yourself, and research the topic at hand before going off at tangents grabbing on to whatever technical terms you remember from your time in Europe.

 

[ShoutB]

Did you get an official document from NESCOM stating that the ballistic coefficient of Ababeel's RVs is >1000? Did you?
No. You read an online source about US/Russian MIRVs, assuming that Pakistan's was in the same class.

For any shape if the ballistic coefficient is less than 1000 and range is 1000+ km and velocity is 4km/s it will fall off the sky like a stone it will reduce it's velocity. This is dynamic of atmospheric re entry .. on earth.

It does not means what YOU want it to mean. You have absolutely no idea at which altitude the MIRVs are jettisoned. You are constantly assuming that somehow only lateral range is related to the MIRV jettisoning calculations.

Stop ridiculing yourself, and research the topic at hand before going off at tangents grabbing on to whatever technical terms you remember from your time in Europe.

any RV cannot re enter the atmosphere whenever you want. There are certain figures and parameters which are required to maintain.

Even if I agree that it is MIRVd then it cannot release more than one warhead within 1100km range and if all three are released at once then it defies the logic of MIRV because MRV do better job than this. This is why MIRV technology is for 3000+ range missiles to reduce the cost.

 

[HRK]

On another forum a suppose to be expert replied me like 3 (15 KT each), 6 (5KT each) and 9 (3 KT each) with decoys and flares.

What you Sir comment on that.

can't comment as
1- this not my field (just have some interest)
2- No more information is available at this point in time

 

[Cookie Monster]

Mukti Bahini were never declared as terrorists for two reasons

1. Their existence and violent struggle lasted from 25th March 1971 to 16th December 1971, a short period after which they came into power in an independent Bangladesh and ended their violent struggle. If Pakistan Army was fighting against them, they were of course considered hostile however after they into power, there was no point for Pakistan to declare it as a terrorist group so in order to do some damage control, Pakistani Govt. of that time accepted Bangladesh as a country.

2. Usually, organizations who are struggling internally against a country for their rights are not declared as terrorist organizations by the UN, some examples from your own backyard are ULFA (which is put as a group of concern by UN but not as a terrorist group), CPI/PLGA, Khalitan Movement etc.

The fact remains that India helped Mukti Bahini by arming them and providing them with manpower, shelter and support and Modi admitted to that recently. He admitted that Indian Army soldiers fought side by side with Mukti Bahini, How different is that to Pakistan supporting LeT and JuD?

Don't expect an answer.
- Admitting it would put India at the same level as Pakistan and their invented "moral high ground" would be lost.

- Calling MB "Freedom Fighters" and providing justifications will mean that Indians(just like Pakistanis) also pick and choose and differentiate between these groups based on their interests. This is also unacceptable bcuz it violates the golden rule of "Indian moral high ground".

 

[Falcon26]

Peeron ka mazaq nai uratay, un ki pohnch boht ooper tak hoti hai.

His entire drivel reminds me of the statements by Indian "experts" few years back in which they will argue endlessly that there was no way Pakistan could have miniaturized its nukes to fit in the cones of the missiles. This used to be a very standard line of argument for them few years back. Now forward it to 2017 after the advent of Nisr and other weapon systems, the biggest headache for these same "experts" is Pakistan's battlefield tactical nukes. No more talk of questioning if Pakistan can miniaturize its nukes.

Give this guy and his ilk couple more years. They will be moaning about MIRV tech and Ababeel same way they are moaning about Nisr. It seems to be the standard evolutionary cycle for the Indians

 

[Cookie Monster]

Indian logic 101.

If Pakistani government didn't consider Mukiti Bahini terrorists then why it started a military operation against it?

And if Mukiti bahini is not terrorists because rest of the world didn't consider them terrorists then why Indian state, government and media considers militants of Manipur, Assam and other North Eastern states as terrorists? Rest of the world don't consider ULFA as terrorists either.

India your name is hypocrisy.

Lol it's no use...I've wasted quite a lot of my time to show him that India sponsored/funded/armed an organisation that attacked Pakistanis just like Pakistan does to India...but he kept insisting that MB must be declared a terrorist organizaton first.

Indian logic = India is all that is good and right/Pakistan is evil/No amount of facts is going to change that.

 

[My-Analogous]

OK yara.
Here is your original diagram with corrections made. Your original figures in red. Multiplied by 1.07 in white.
Now that we know the the warhead to be fitted is 2.0 meter tall and 0.76 Meters wide.
How many can be fitted in a space 3.4 Meters tall and 1.8 Meters wide?
I am guessing there will be more than three.

View attachment 371677


Also if the RV is 5.14 meters tall ( warhead cowling 3.4 m + white bit at the bottom 1.74m) then the whole missile must be 20-21 meters tall.
The TEL which carries Topol is the same that carries Shaheen-3 . Topol is 22.7 m tall, so Ababeel can be easily carried by re-fitted Shaheen-3 TEL.

View attachment 371687

View attachment 371689

The nearest is not Topal but RS24

Weight 49,600 kg
Length 20.9 m
Diameter 2 m
Warhead At least 4 MIRVs with 150–250 kiloton warheads

I think we can say minimum 3 warheads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-24_Yars

 

[The SC]

How many warheads Ababeel 1 can carry in max configuration.

Maybe 3 nuclear (50 to 70 kt each) or conventional warheads, and my other guess is 6 to 8 tactical ( NASR size warheads), please keep in mind that these are nothing more than speculations..

 

[Cookie Monster]

LMAO yeh phir aa gaya??

View attachment 371641

I finally got a chance to see that video of "experts" claiming Babur 3 missile launch is fake.

He says that the video of the test looks like it is "Computer Graphics Initiated"

Yeh bc jahil Babur 3 test ko fake saabit kerne chalay hain or CGI ka matlab nahi pata.

 

[Thorough Pro]

missile detection/tracking is done by radars and regardless of how much smoke the enemy missile operators see, they won't be able to direct the missile after smoke trail, at least until now.

smoke emission from missile should be reduced because it can help detect missile path if you look at russian satan missile you will notice that it emits very less smoke after launch

 

[razgriz19]

you did not explain

How come your RV's hit the target linearly so accurately that the total restricted area was so narrow which does not happen in MIRV test firing, as if testing only one dummy warhead released at 90km height and allowed to free fall to hit a target zone another 700 kms away.

Russian MIRV at test range.
They're not that far apart. And another thing is, it was just a missile test and not an MIRV test. The report said MIRV capable missile was tested. We don't know if multiple warheads were in fact tested.

 

[F86 Saber]

Don't expect an answer.
- Admitting it would put India at the same level as Pakistan and their invented "moral high ground" would be lost.

- Calling MB "Freedom Fighters" and providing justifications will mean that Indians(just like Pakistanis) also pick and choose and differentiate between these groups based on their interests. This is also unacceptable bcuz it violates the golden rule of "Indian moral high ground".

I have learnt my lesson and i am not going to bang my head against the wall anymore, he again conveniently ignored the part to which he had no answer i.e why freedom fighters like UCLA and CPI (Maoists), who are fighting a war consistently with the India security forces and have inflicted more damage then whatever LeT has ever done, have not been declared terrorist organizations by the UN?

He has the typical mentality of a selective visioned Indian, my only concern is that he is a "Think Tank".

 

[Cookie Monster]

Congratulation to Pakistan for this Huge Achievement. What a proud day for Pakistani members.
Indeed India will now add a new "game changer" element to its Threat Library.

Some Interesting Observations :

- If MIRV was indeed focused on Indian BMD , its safe to assume Pakistan considers Indian BMD as a Genuine Threat , and Defense against its regular Missiles. This means that Indian BMD is on the Right Track else it was pointless to test.

- Indian BMD now needs serious reconsideration and upgrade.

- Boost Phase Interception will now be a Top Priority.

This right here is a mature and constructive response. Please teach ur countrymen on this forum the same sense and manners that u have.

 

[Safriz]

Not when the missile is less than 3000km range.

Altitude matters , not range