A religious question

[kobiraaz]

Answer is in my signature.

 

[Kompromat]

There are religious zealots who insist on a puritanical interpretation of just about every topic being discussed.

Your posts carries a reasonable degree of mockery but anyway , lets answer one thing at a time. First of all i am no authority on Islam and im not the most knowledgeable person you will come across when it comes to Islam. Secondly , you don't have to take what someone else tells you. You must use your own critical thinking , others can just explain but you are the one who must make sense out of it.

while being convinced themselves that theirs is the only way to true salvation.
If it were so important to follow the only path to salvation, why would Allah, the most beneficent and merciful, create all this diversity of color, thought, religion and country to begin with?

No , there is more than one way to salvation , this debate has been done with Agnosticmuslim before too. I am no authority to give you an answer , since your mind by now , right the moment when you are reading this sentence would already have "painted" me as a "religious zealous" in your mind. So i will let Quranic reference explain to you.

If you have ever tried reading Quran you would know that this is the very first Sura' , the Sura Al fatiha. Just take the pain to look closely on 1:5 the main word you are looking for is "Straight Path" [Sirath-e-Mustaqeen in Arabic and Seedha & Sacha Raasta in urdu]. Now if you think about it , you would notice that the subject is "more than one paths". Because if there is no more than one way then the question of "Straight path" wouldn't arise in the first place . You have to have a few other ways to determine the "straight path" right ? - That "straight but not the only Path" is Islam. Makes sense ?

After all, the many wonders of his creation, from galaxies down to microbes, all show a harmonious existence with all their diversity, so why not human beings, the epitome of his creation?

Question of harmony is a confusing one as you are arguing on two different arguments here , first the path to salvation and second the harmony amongst humanity or universal integration ?? IF you could explain the second bit , i might be able to give some ideas.

Cheers.

 

[jayron]

If you want to believe in God, don't ask questions. If you start asking questions, you'll stop believing in him. There is a reason for blasphemy law's existance.

 

[Mech]

If you want to believe in God, don't ask questions. If you start asking questions, you'll stop believing in him. There is a reason for blasphemy law's existance.

Not true at all. In my case, the more i question the more i understand. If you ask me it takes a greater leap of faith to believe that billions of years ago...there was a rock of glowing magma and fire called earth.....several billions of years later....it started raining "water". And suddenly a few million years later "life" came about. Then this life became fish....the fish grew legs....fish becomes animals and then we get dinosaurs....then there was this monkey who became man...

Now tell me, which is more believable?...That we are product of intelligent design...or that we are simply an anomaly ? An atheist is a man of greater faith than a man of religion. It takes a HUGE leap of faith to believe what they do...

I believe my religion ( Christianity ) to be true. Another one would stake it all on Islam...so on and so forth.

 

[VCheng]

Your posts carries a reasonable degree of mockery but anyway , lets answer one thing at a time. First of all i am no authority on Islam and im not the most knowledgeable person you will come across when it comes to Islam. Secondly , you don't have to take what someone else tells you. You must use your own critical thinking , others can just explain but you are the one who must make sense out of it.

There is no mockery intended in my posts, please rest assured. Like I have said to AM before, we may be on different paragraphs, but we are on the same page.

No , there is more than one way to salvation , this debate has been done with Agnosticmuslim before too. I am no authority to give you an answer , since your mind by now , right the moment when you are reading this sentence would already have "painted" me as a "religious zealous" in your mind. So i will let Quranic reference explain to you.

.............................

That is my understanding too.

I do not believe you are a zealot; I used that term for others here (and elsewhere).

Question of harmony is a confusing one as you are arguing on two different arguments here , first the path to salvation and second the harmony amongst humanity or universal integration ?? IF you could explain the second bit , i might be able to give some ideas.

Cheers.

The second part of my question relates to harmony amongst humanity, given that we agree that there are more than one paths to salvation. We all should be able to live on this planet harmoniously.

 

[raavan]

Given the last post by Santro in this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/sugges...ious-debates-other-nations-3.html#post2256372

I wanted to ask a serious question with the hope of a polite and substantive discussion.

ADMINS/MOD: Please close or delete this thread if OP or subsequent discussion is inappropriate.

==========================================================

There are religious zealots who insist on a puritanical interpretation of just about every topic being discussed, while being convinced themselves that theirs is the only way to true salvation.

If it were so important to follow the only path to salvation, why would Allah, the most beneficent and merciful, create all this diversity of color, thought, religion and country to begin with? After all, the many wonders of his creation, from galaxies down to microbes, all show a harmonious existence with all their diversity, so why not human beings, the epitome of his creation?

Excellent point sir. And all the people who are saying that religion is a sensitive and should not be discussed etc probably know deep down inside that God wont stand the test of rational and logic. otherwise they would welcome such discussions and guide us all

 

[genmirajborgza786]

religion debates should not be allowed in the forum it can lead to flame war's if some one wants to learn about religion then he/she should go in somewhere else

 

[Luftwaffe]

VChang, I and many others may not be qualified but the limited knowledge and other research from here and there.

I came across this perhaps some of its contents have the answer or part answer to your questions. I am not sure if I should post the link or not If moderators think its not required they may remove it in its entirety.

Rebuttal to Matt Slick's "Does Islam teach salvation by works?" article.

Further regarding salvation Quran Chapter Al-Asr needs to be studied in detailed. I find this Tafseer to be descriptive detailed.

 

[jeypore]

Given the last post by Santro in this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/sugges...ious-debates-other-nations-3.html#post2256372

I wanted to ask a serious question with the hope of a polite and substantive discussion.

ADMINS/MOD: Please close or delete this thread if OP or subsequent discussion is inappropriate.

==========================================================

There are religious zealots who insist on a puritanical interpretation of just about every topic being discussed, while being convinced themselves that theirs is the only way to true salvation.

After spending three years of my life reading closely all major religious books, I have come to one conclusion about God...

That is, in every book he ask for you to love him unconditionally!!!!!!!!!

Maybe that may seem simple, but it is harder to do. Think about who would you love unconditionally, to me it is only my kids, but do you really have unconditional love for your wife, parents, friends, etc....

This becomes the focus of God, atleast for me, that he is asking you to love him as equal as your child.... For the forum member who do not have any children will not understand this love at all.

My two cent on this question..

Thanks..

 

[jayron]

Not true at all. In my case, the more i question the more i understand. If you ask me it takes a greater leap of faith to believe that billions of years ago...there was a rock of glowing magma and fire called earth.....several billions of years later....it started raining "water". And suddenly a few million years later "life" came about. Then this life became fish....the fish grew legs....fish becomes animals and then we get dinosaurs....then there was this monkey who became man...

Now tell me, which is more believable?...That we are product of intelligent design...or that we are simply an anomaly ? An atheist is a man of greater faith than a man of religion. It takes a HUGE leap of faith to believe what they do...

I believe my religion ( Christianity ) to be true. Another one would stake it all on Islam...so on and so forth.

So you would rather believe Eve was made from Adam's rib than theory of evolution. I agree that it is a fancier story than theory of evolution but that does not make it true. The creators of religions could have been Issac Asimovs of their time . But still they could not foresee or take into account a LOT of things. example: a world with electricity . That's a pretty basic thing to miss. Don't you think so?

 

[Karachiite]

Religious debates always lead to trolling. Anyways I wont get involved in this since my religious beliefs would be revealed

 

[StandForInsaf]

Your posts carries a reasonable degree of mockery but anyway

Not agreed regarding this post...

So you would rather believe Eve was made from Adam's rib than theory of evolution. I agree that it is a fancier story than theory of evolution but that does not make it true. The creators of religions could have been Issac Asimovs of their time . But still they could not foresee or take into account a LOT of things. example: a world with electricity . That's a pretty basic thing to miss. Don't you think so?

He has already told what he think , asking again would lead to cross religious debate ,
Its good sign that ppl start healthy debate without mocking or fighting each other and even tolerate each others point of view (even cross religion).

Basic topic was only to one specific religion Islam we better stay on topic.

 

[pmukherjee]

Given the last post by Santro in this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/sugges...ious-debates-other-nations-3.html#post2256372

I wanted to ask a serious question with the hope of a polite and substantive discussion.

ADMINS/MOD: Please close or delete this thread if OP or subsequent discussion is inappropriate.

==========================================================

There are religious zealots who insist on a puritanical interpretation of just about every topic being discussed, while being convinced themselves that theirs is the only way to true salvation.

If it were so important to follow the only path to salvation, why would Allah, the most beneficent and merciful, create all this diversity of color, thought, religion and country to begin with? After all, the many wonders of his creation, from galaxies down to microbes, all show a harmonious existence with all their diversity, so why not human beings, the epitome of his creation?

"human beings, the epitome of his creation?"

The concept that human beings are the epitome of God's creation has been proved incorrect repeatedly and conclusively over and over again during the brief history of mankind. The last of the great physicists/mathematicians/astronomers to have proved that Earth was not the center of the Universe but rather, an insignificant little planet orbiting an insignificant star in an insignificant corner of an insignificant galaxy which itself is in an insignificant corner of the Universe was none other than Galileo Gelilei.
Charles Darwin a naturalist proved that human beings, the most numerous inhabitant of planet Earth are in no way highly significant themselves but are rather, descendants of lesser creatures and the end product a long evolutionary process involving numerous other animal species and that humans would eventually be superseded by other species to which humans would eventually evolve.

These concepts of "So God created man in his own image.......(Genesis 1:27)" and ".........the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. (Psalm 93:1, King James)" are biblical statements which are echoed in all Abrahamic religions and which have no scientific basis whatsoever.

Man is unique, that is all. He is not the greatest as Man will evolve into other species better adapted to living on Earth (perhaps a species more tolerant to high levels of CO2 and higher temperature). We will eventually get their if we give ourselves enough time and not blow each other up before that happens. The probability of other life forms far more intelligent and capable than us is very much a reality and drives scientific endeavors further deeper into space.

The Hindu belief is that the only constant in all creation is change itself. All things change. Life and death are an unending cycle. All species existing today will die out to be replaced by others just as others have died out to make way for those existing today.

The question you have posed exists only in the realm of misplaced and misinformed antiquated spirituality.

Regards.

 

[jayron]

Not agreed regarding this post...



He has already told what he think , asking again would lead to cross religious debate ,
Its good sign that ppl start healthy debate without mocking or fighting each other and even tolerate each others point of view (even cross religion).

Basic topic was only to one specific religion Islam we better stay on topic.

I didn't ask him what he thinks. I have a pretty good idea.

Lets stay on the topic . Does islam talk about a world with electricity and internet? Why doesn't Quran talk beyond camels, dates and desert? Why not about kangaroos or walruses, which are not in Arabia? He should have known about their existence right? This is a serious question.

 

[StandForInsaf]

I didn't ask him what he thinks. I have a pretty good idea.

Lets stay on the topic . Does islam talk about a world with electricity and internet? Why doesn't Quran talk beyond camels, dates and desert? Why not about kangaroos or walruses, which are not in Arabia? He should have known about their existence right? This is a serious question.

Topic was about salvation and diversity , you again go off the topic,

Allah Almighty tells us about how to spend life , about the animals your taking are not direct related.