A Path to peace

[Developereo]

your posts are baffling the whole issue of this post was to bring moderate religous people to the centre and teach the children moderate lifestyles

Please don't let the detractors distract you.

Your post is very well written and addresses several core issues. Pakistan's problems will be solved by thinking Pakistanis who understand the issues, propose solutions, and work hard to implement them. Some pf these Pakistanis are outside the country, many of them inside. We both share the pain and the vision to improve Pakistan.

You will inevitably run into people whose only contribution is cynical remarks and put downs, parroting whatever is currently fashionable in the cynics' corner.

Ignore the cynics and keep working hard.

 

[VCheng]

None of the laws are applied. The days the laws are applied then we can see what is or what is not working. By that definition the laws that stop murder have failed because people kill. The law is only as strong as those who enforce it. every logic of yours is flawed

What do you think the Hudood Ordinance and the Blasphemy Laws are, if not this application, or, rather, mis-application? My logic is impeccable.

 

[I.R.A]

Hi,

I understand what you said---there is nothing personal---the goal is to move Pakistan forward. I wish you had worked in a foreign land---. I wish that good Pakistanis who had the opportunity to work in a foreign land but stayed behind had taken the opportunity----then they would have felt my pain and understood it better.

Actually I am already working at a good position with foreigners here; I have earned their respect for me as a Pakistani and changed a lot of their attitude about Pakistanis. At times I had to stand face to face with some of them for calling names to Pakistanis.


There is a lot to be done at home if everybody left who would have taken care here. My best wishes for all of you Pakistanis who are overseas and an advice for all you, do not believe everything you read in news or watch on TV news channels. It is not that bad after all but our sensational media is making things look doomed.

 

[VCheng]

Let's consider the opening sentence of the Objectives Resolution:

"Whereas sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the State of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;"

How does anyone explain this to the rest of the sovereign nations on Earth who wish to govern themselves according their own beliefs and ideals and aspirations, let alone to Pakistanis?

 

[I.R.A]

Your solutions, like those of other members, are valid but my fundamental point remains that these solutions can not be implemented without a sense of national unity.

National unity is there in commoners its just our political parties that are hell bent on dividing us, for them keeping people uneducated and divided is key for their survival, they cannot afford people who will question them. The tragedy is people in Pakistan who do not have power wish to change a lot of things but people who have power they want to keep things as it is so their political dynasties can survive and people can be held hostage to their idiotic silly slogans.

Any reform -- whether it's in the police, political parties, religious institutions -- will fail because the targets of that reform will claim that they are being singled out and the government is working for "the other guys".

Let the Public decide bring the facts and evidence in open and then with Public support proceed with the reforms.

The government -- federal and local -- has no sense of universal legitimacy. It is seen as a (temporary) win for one side or another. When PML-N gets in, everybody knows that Punjab (and Punjabis) will prosper and the rest of the country will have to wait. When PPP comes in, it signals favoritism for Sindh and Sindhis. When PTI comes in, it is seen as a front for the military or the Taliban sympathisers.

That is why I said PMs and Presidents should be selected on merit and not elected. A neutral person who has no political affiliation or interest will work in Public's interest instead of his party or personal interest.

The core problem is that people have no faith in the government being impartial and fair, and part of the reason is that we don't have strong independent institutions of accountability. Normally, the judicial branch and courts are seen as independent but, in Pakistan, even the courts are accused of favoritism.

Only favoritism do not be so naive judiciary is as corrupt as any other in Pakistan. Even more I would say.

Let's consider the opening sentence of the Objectives Resolution:

"Whereas sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the State of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;"

How does anyone explain this to the rest of the sovereign nations on Earth who wish to govern themselves according their own beliefs and ideals and aspirations, let alone to Pakistanis?

Why do we even need to explain this to rest of sovereign nations on Earth?

 

[VCheng]

Why do we even need to explain this to rest of sovereign nations on Earth?

Because you just told them that in your view they are subordinated to Allah too, damn their own beliefs.

 

[I.R.A]

Yes! Yes! And yes!!
I completely agree.
Religion should be kept out of politics.

Then BJP in India should not be in power.

 

[Gufi]

"Whereas sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the State of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;"

How does anyone explain this to the rest of the sovereign nations on Earth who wish to govern themselves according their own beliefs and ideals and aspirations, let alone to Pakistanis?

Do we expect other nations to adopt our laws? or force them on other countries ?
Your arguments gets stupider with time... What we do in Pakistan is the business of those who live in Pakistan or for those who consider themselves Pakistani at heart

What do you think the Hudood Ordinance and the Blasphemy Laws are, if not this application, or, rather, mis-application? My logic is impeccable.

again you are an outdated whining baby... the hudood ordinance is being reformed and part of it has been changed. The blasphemy law needs review but there is talk about that also.
Grow up and start talking with some logic... and if you can not please do not reply with more stupider stuff... why this and why that there are faults with every system that need to be ironed out. I do not need to tell you about the faults in the great American system you champion you know those yourself

 

[I.R.A]

Because you just told them that in your view they are subordinated to Allah too, damn their own beliefs.

And something written in our resolution hinders them from whatever they want to do as a state? What sort of logic is that? And I do not see any thing damning their beliefs.

I made no distinction between Pakistani beached on the shores of another unfortunate country or you flag waving patriots back home. We're all the same when it comes to these issues. You're making this distinction on your own, not me.
If you found my post unsavoury, then report it for God sake, ignore it, challenge it, instead you pulled the expat card, outta nowhere. And then the other fella did too. Forgive me if I don't give a crap about pleasantries, it's my way of hammering a thorny issues that clearly causes so much butthurt among people.

And for the last time, you wrote an article, I said it was a good start and then gave my own input in my own special way on the topic, not you. If you can't hep that, then we've got nothing to talk about.

I am fucking tired of your other fella other fella rhetoric.

My post was simply in response to curses spewed by Mastan Khan on Pakistanis, if you have reading problems go consult someone but do read Mastan Khan's curses first for which he never appologised but I instead appologised for what I said out about expats.

You keep coming back about your way of this and that, just let me know what have contributed so far for Pakistan? Have you paid any taxes in Pakistan? Are you or any very close member of your family fighting terrorists with his life on stake? Is any family member of yours serving any strategic organisation of Pakistan?

If none then shut the **** up because me that other fella has all these. We send our children to school everyday knowing the dangers but in hope to keep our generation educated. If you cannot respect that then please stop your this and that about Pakistanis you have no right and even no clue how we survive these tough times.

 

[Developereo]

National unity is there in commoners its just our political parties that are hell bent on dividing us?

That's a circular problem.
People keep electing these same people into power.

The problem is that there is no national civilian institution which is considered neutral and acceptable to all Pakistanis. The closest thing we have is the army, but the army is not a civilian outfit and its job is to protect borders, not fix domestic problems. When the army rules the country, it only does so because it is filling the vacuum left by the lack of civilian leadership.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I am fucking tired of your other fella other fella rhetoric.

My post was simply in response to curses spewed by Mastan Khan on Pakistanis, if you have reading problems go consult someone but do read Mastan Khan's curses first for which he never appologised but I instead appologised for what I said out about expats.

You keep coming back about your way of this and that, just let me know what have contributed so far for Pakistan? Have you paid any taxes in Pakistan? Are you or any very close member of your family fighting terrorists with his life on stake? Is any family member of yours serving any strategic organisation of Pakistan?

If none then shut the **** up because me that other fella has all these. We send our children to school everyday knowing the dangers but in hope to keep our generation educated. If you cannot respect that then please stop your this and that about Pakistanis you have no right and even no clue how we survive these tough times.

Okay, I've had enough, third time now you're doing this.

@Manticore @Horus @waz

 

[I.R.A]

Okay, I've had enough, third time now you're doing this.

@Manticore @Horus @waz

Yeah I expected this. Talk big this and that but on ground you are part of problem not solution, who will happily blame Pakistanis, because its in these days to blame Pakistanis for ills of the world.

Before reporting me you should have gone through what you and Mastan Khan said about us Pakistanis. Anyways I give a damn even if I get banned. At least whatever respect or sympathies I had for overseas Pakistanis are gone, courtesy you and some others.

 

[Levina]

You are right that, of all the national institutions in Pakistan, the military enjoys the most support and respect. I say this as a person with no military background or connection, in friends or relatives. There is the (justified) belief that military brass have their own level of corruption and the military enjoys special perks -- when the most expensive housing neighborhood is called 'Defence Housing Society', that says something. However, the rank and file military people are respected and, relatively speaking, the military is the least corrupt and most patriotic institution in Pakistan.

Seen that happening in India too.

The media has utterly failed Pakistan. In the 70s and 80s, Pakistan Television (PTV) was very active in promoting a sense of national unity. There were programs shown across the country which showcased the culture of various parts of Pakistan, so people in Karachi could see Peshawari culture, and people in Quetta could see Lahori culture, and vice versa. However, after Musharraf's liberalization, the media has degenerated into a race for sensationalism and money and the content has similarly gone downhill.

I have some good memories of Ptv. This was before Zee and star were introduced in India, some of us who used to live in Punjab, would position our antennas to catch Ptv's signals. I remember watching disney cartoons early in the morning before leaving for my school. Ptv was our cartoon-network back then.

On a serious note, yes media plays a very important role in today's world and it can sway its audience's opinion in any direction it wants.
The last BJP govt (back in early 2000s) gave media the freedom that it needed, till then media was like a caged bird in India.That brought in a significant change in our society as a whole.
Today social media has given voice to ppl in the remotest of locations.
In Pakistan, military, politicians and media 've daunting task ahead of 'em. Corruption and religious misinterpretations 're the only barriers that occludes Pak's progress....or as Jungi bhai said prevents Pak from returning to normalcy. IMO!!

 

[Levina]

Then BJP in India should not be in power.

Lol
BJP came to power because it promised to bring in progress in India and also because for months close to election date they managed to control their saffron agents.

 

[VCheng]

Do we expect other nations to adopt our laws? or force them on other countries ?

We openly declare such views, and the crazy Mullah brigade runs with them to impose, first on us, and then wherever they can. Do you not see a problem with this?