A new Indian Navy ship -- the INS Jalashwa

[Adux]

If we can device a strategy and requirement list to take Karachi or open a Third Front, Assuming that PN is no longer a threat, How can Pakistan defend its shores from land is my next question.

Like you need 6 to 1 for victory on a moutain
3 to 1 in normal circumstances,
Is there any number, from beaching prespective ?
If we can have that number, we can find out how many of Pakistani troops will diverted from the IB.

 

[Bull]

Currently i guess IN would have to get IA infantry to act as the marine core equivalent. I guesss the LPD that IN currently is having is for much small scale excercises or scenarios like in Andaman/Maldives.

I would prefer to see IN landing in Gwadar rather than in Karachi. Pakistan would be able to give close airsupport or sustain air assault on the marine codre landing in karachi but gwadar would be a bit far away for sustained air atack. Thisd would also help India in launching a two front attack.

 

[kidwaibhai]

This could happen if india managed to destroy all of the pakistani navy aircraft. This task does seem a little out of reach but even if they did land on Karachi they would have to fight door to door house to house. india would have to lauch their attacks in waves to have any effect. first a small contingent of 6000 troops to secure the beach head. then a larger more heavily armed wave and then a wave with armour vehicles and apc's and tanks. I think that paratroopers would also be a option that people should consider.

 

[con]

But then I am not sure why there should be even be a objective to capture Karachi.
Why land on the head of a fully populated city just to show your navy has amphibious capability?

 

[joey]

No one in right mind would land in karachi, LPD force is for andaman reinforcements, andaman is such a strategic location!!

 

[Adux]

Con,

My point is to secure the harbour and beachead not city of karachi, we are not capable of policing it, but we are capable of invading it.
Iran nor Afghanistan is going to resupply pakistan in any way as significant as Pakistani Coast,
And the added advantage of having Indian Troops in the life line of Pakistan will divert attention from the east of Pakistan.
We can end the war quickly, in my opinion this is quite doable.

 

[niaz]

Con,

My point is to secure the harbour and beachead not city of karachi, we are not capable of policing it, but we are capable of invading it.
Iran nor Afghanistan is going to resupply pakistan in any way as significant as Pakistani Coast,
And the added advantage of having Indian Troops in the life line of Pakistan will divert attention from the east of Pakistan.
We can end the war quickly, in my opinion this is quite doable.

IMO Pakistan's main strength lies in the land Army and any war between India and Pakistan would be decided not by Navy but in fields of Rajasthan and in Punjab. Just look at the map.
If Pakistan can capture Gurdaspur, Kashmir is cutt off from rest of India and if IA captures Bhawalpur, it can cut off Pakistan in two. Choking Pakistan thru Karachi can only be of limited benefit.

Karachi is no longer the sole port. Pakistan has Gawadar as well.

 

[con]

To add to niaz sir's post,IMHO if the objective is to stop resupplies through Karachi,I guess it could be done "cheaply" by having a naval blockade.

As far as PA forces getting diverted from the eastern border is considered,I am not sure it this might happen. Why do I say this?

1.Most of the PA forces would be on the eastern border,as historically they have prefered protecting Punjab region rather than Sindh.
2.Since PN is on the way of IA forces landing on Karachi,clearing PN would atleast take week or two.
PA may already been under tremendous pressure on the eastern border by this time. This may result in PA not planning to supply forces to counter a beach landing. Most probably para-millitary and police forces would be used to counter such a landing.
By the time there is a scope of landing forces on Karachi,it is very much possible that war might be reaching it's conclusion.

Landing on Karachi can be of some use provided it is done within the few days of the conflict.Yes if PA makes inroads into Indian territory,then if IA manages to land a substantial forces on Karachi it could be of huge advantage.Rather it becomes necessary.
However I am not sure what "areas" would IA want to capture.A huge hostile population and you are walking right into it,without enough numbers.

If some one can suggest me an objective,I can think about it.Not that I am an expert,let me see I can put up some points

 

[kidwaibhai]

let us not forget the pakistan army does have a massive garrison in Karachi. let us not forget the pakistan also has a small marine cor so they can also put up resistance, they can also stop the landings.
But this is to far fetched as soon as pakistan sees indian marines landing on its shores pakistan will intiate a countdown and will eventually launch nuclear weaponry, let us not forget that pakistan has a first strike stance when it comes to nuclear launch.

 

[Always Neutral]

let us not forget the pakistan army does have a massive garrison in Karachi. let us not forget the pakistan also has a small marine cor so they can also put up resistance, they can also stop the landings.
But this is to far fetched as soon as pakistan sees indian marines landing on its shores pakistan will intiate a countdown and will eventually launch nuclear weaponry, let us not forget that pakistan has a first strike stance when it comes to nuclear launch.

Dear Kidwaibhai,

I doubt the Indian Navy's sealift capacity will ever be used against Pakistan. More likely the ships like the Trenton will used for providing emergency aid in situations like the Tsunamis which happened in Andaman Islands or evacuation of civilians like in Lebanon. Another usefull role will be in UN Peacekeeping missions in Africa where India deploys a lot of soldiers.

It could also be used in situations like the coup in Male where the Male Govt. asked for Indian help.

Regards

 

[joey]

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Galleries/Bridges/Hope

2 Full galleries of Indian Navy and US Navy in humanatarian aid mission, enjoy!

 

[Contrarian]

let us not forget the pakistan army does have a massive garrison in Karachi. let us not forget the pakistan also has a small marine cor so they can also put up resistance, they can also stop the landings.
But this is to far fetched as soon as pakistan sees indian marines landing on its shores pakistan will intiate a countdown and will eventually launch nuclear weaponry, let us not forget that pakistan has a first strike stance when it comes to nuclear launch.

fools talk about nuclear weapons. I will not go through this debate again, but let me say this, if pakistan at all launches nuclear weapons on India as a strategic first strike or even a tactical strike, Pakistan will be obliterated by the nuclear retaliation. Only those who donot have the keys to nuclear arsenal talk about first strike and $hit. Those who do, understand the implications of their actions.

I have seen a LOT of Pakistani's think of nuclear weapons as though its some miracle weapon that will win them a war, and they let loose the word 'nuclear strike' very easily in any conversation. This attitude i have not seen in Indians, who need i remind you posses a bigger number of nukes and with a bigger yield as well.

 

[con]

let us not forget the pakistan army does have a massive garrison in Karachi. let us not forget the pakistan also has a small marine cor so they can also put up resistance, they can also stop the landings.
But this is to far fetched as soon as pakistan sees indian marines landing on its shores pakistan will intiate a countdown and will eventually launch nuclear weaponry, let us not forget that pakistan has a first strike stance when it comes to nuclear launch.

One thing I cant understand is where will Pakistan use nuke on? On indian forces?
Pakistan will use nukes when the pressure from Indian forces crosses a line.
Where will IA will be if Pakistan uses nuke? They will be in Pakistan.

Would Pakistan use nuke on it's own population just to get ride of Indian forces? Would they be ready to bomb Lahore if IA capture it?
There is no point in using nuke on Indian population. That will not give victory.The indian forces will still in Pakistan and imagine the freedom to retaliation they will be given. Then what is the purpose?

This is no US-USSR conflict where the fight was on the european plains. Away from US mainland and Russian mainland.Indo-Pak conflict will be fought on within their own population.

During the 2001 stand off,IA deployed more than 2/3 of it's entire strength on the western border? If Pakistan may use nuke,isn't it stupid to expose almost 2/3 of the forces? But still why did they deploy such a large force?

 

[niaz]

One thing I cant understand is where will Pakistan use nuke on? On indian forces?
Pakistan will use nukes when the pressure from Indian forces crosses a line.
Where will IA will be if Pakistan uses nuke? They will be in Pakistan.

Would Pakistan use nuke on it's own population just to get ride of Indian forces? Would they be ready to bomb Lahore if IA capture it?
There is no point in using nuke on Indian population. That will not give victory.The indian forces will still in Pakistan and imagine the freedom to retaliation they will be given. Then what is the purpose?

This is no US-USSR conflict where the fight was on the european plains. Away from US mainland and Russian mainland.Indo-Pak conflict will be fought on within their own population.

During the 2001 stand off,IA deployed more than 2/3 of it's entire strength on the western border? If Pakistan may use nuke,isn't it stupid to expose almost 2/3 of the forces? But still why did they deploy such a large force?

Of course it appears stupid that you deploy a million men on the border and bring them back. Almost like the Duke of York who marched men the uphill and marched them down again!!

Why did India do this ??

I have asked this question myself many times. IMO there was a faction in the BJP gov't probably headed by Advani and supported by George Fernandez ( he wanted to prove that he was more anti Pak than RSS) who wanted to call Pakistan's nuclear bluff. There is no doubt that it will take a lot of soul searching and guts before one orders to "nuke" an enemy who can 'nuke' you back. However, there is a possible scenario that before the nuclear threshold is reached, India declares unilateral ceasfire and then negotiate from position of strength.

On the other hand, Musharraf is a gambler and had it been Nawaz Sharif or Benazir, this ploy had a greater chance of success. After a lot of deliberation BJP govt decided not to call the bluff with a mad man as an adversary and redeployed their troops.

Naturally, this is my theory and open to question, but I can't for the life me find any other explanation.

 

[Adux]

Operation Parakram, was the most stupidest decision of Indian Government in my opinion.

Sir,

I would suggest you looking into new bases being build closer to the border. In lieu with coldstart.