A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[CHI RULES]

"The JF-17 is extremely close if not exactly the same as Mig-29" These are the words of the head of the Mig and Sukhoi Holding. Am not allowed to post URLs, but on youtube, put a forward slash, then include watch?v=L2xC0m0pPF0.

That video DOES NOT mean that Russia isn't willing to transfer engine technology to Pakistan itself. Again, on sputniknews comMERCIAL site put a forward slash then asia then forward slash then 201511121029973347-pakistan-russia-engines and finally a forward slash again. To quote:

Mig 29 has many variants and I have specifically mentioned Indian Mig29Ks. A fighter close to another can't be of same class. Further gadgetry also plays very important role.

Is the design and airframe for the Block 3 the same as the block 2?

I am a layman like many posters and get news from here and there. However onnce I met a tech pro who was involved in production of JF17 block 1 he assured me that though JF17 certainly lacks in speed and maneuverability as compared to F16s yet has advantage for us to integrate any armament we like. Further the jet has the potential to grow which is now proving correct gradually.

My own view is that our block-iii should suffice our needs regarding air defense it should have following features.

1. Use of more composites and frontal stealth feature like Euro fighter.
2. Smokeless and powerful engine with IR suppression .
3. Max Speed of Mach 2+
4.Next Gen BVR like Marlin or PL15/21 with WVR HOBs missile.
5. Integrated IRST with effective range.
6.Capable AESA radar with relatively sufficient range.
7 Western EW suite.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Mig 29 has many variants and I have specifically mentioned Indian Mig29Ks. A fighter close to another can't be of same class. Further gadgetry also plays very important role.



I am a layman like many posters and get news from here and there. However onnce I met a tech pro who was involved in production of JF17 block 1 he assured me that though JF17 certainly lacks in speed and maneuverability as compared to F16s yet has advantage for us to integrate any armament we like. Further the jet has the potential to grow which is now proving correct gradually.

My own view is that our block-iii should suffice our needs regarding air defense it should have following features.

1. Use of more composites and frontal stealth feature like Euro fighter.
2. Smokeless and powerful engine with IR suppression .
3. Max Speed of Mach 2+
4.Next Gen BVR like Marlin or PL15/21 with WVR HOBs missile.
5. Integrated IRST with effective range.
6.Capable AESA radar with relatively sufficient range.
7 Western EW suite.

except point3 all those goodies are in the block-3, DSI limit aircraft speed with in mach 2 and top speed doesn't matter it accelerations that matters

 

[Hassan Guy]

Mig 29 has many variants and I have specifically mentioned Indian Mig29Ks. A fighter close to another can't be of same class. Further gadgetry also plays very important role.



I am a layman like many posters and get news from here and there. However onnce I met a tech pro who was involved in production of JF17 block 1 he assured me that though JF17 certainly lacks in speed and maneuverability as compared to F16s yet has advantage for us to integrate any armament we like. Further the jet has the potential to grow which is now proving correct gradually.

My own view is that our block-iii should suffice our needs regarding air defense it should have following features.

1. Use of more composites and frontal stealth feature like Euro fighter.
2. Smokeless and powerful engine with IR suppression .
3. Max Speed of Mach 2+
4.Next Gen BVR like Marlin or PL15/21 with WVR HOBs missile.
5. Integrated IRST with effective range.
6.Capable AESA radar with relatively sufficient range.
7 Western EW suite.

But is the design the same?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No we are not

Will to life. Will it to life. @Oscar!

 

[Ultima Thule]

But is the design the same?

with minor modifications

 

[Signalian]

My own view is that our block-iii should suffice our needs regarding air defense it should have following features.

1. Use of more composites and frontal stealth feature like Euro fighter.
2. Smokeless and powerful engine with IR suppression .
3. Max Speed of Mach 2+
4.Next Gen BVR like Marlin or PL15/21 with WVR HOBs missile.
5. Integrated IRST with effective range.
6.Capable AESA radar with relatively sufficient range.
7 Western EW suite.

I would prefer that PAF designs a new aircraft altogether. Till then keep upgrading all JF-17's.

 

[Hassan Guy]

with minor modifications

How "minor" are they?

I would prefer that PAF designs a new aircraft altogether. Till then keep upgrading all JF-17's.

They should for next gen.

 

[dadeechi]

we are going upward tier by tier as fully covered through HQ-16 (LY-80) in mid range then IMO we will be going for HQ-9 (LRSAMs).

It is said that China procured S-400s to make HQ-9s exceed the performance of S-400s.

Interesting to see how Pakistan's HQ-16s & HQ-9s would perform against Indian Brahmos & Agni missiles..

 

[The Eagle]

It is said that China procured S-400s to make HQ-9s exceed the performance of S-400s.

Interesting to see how Pakistan's HQ-16s & HQ-9s would perform against Indian Brahmos & Agni missiles..

Well procurement are based upon requirements and threat so it is possible that those are not the systems as what is being told in brochure but are produced as per need after necessary changes and upgrades hence will result in better versions.

Rest about interesting part, at first, I wouldn't wish for the day may come but as having no other option, indeed the systems will be proved as per tactics however, a Battle ground at PDF with available data will be enough for fanboys.

 

[IceCold]

Take the money you'd spend on buying, arming, training for and maintaining a new aircraft and invest that money into the JF-17 program and make it more capable:

JF-17 Block III, there's your new aircraft.

No matter how much we invest on JF-17 it will still remain a point defense fighter and still will lack on several aspects. For example its limited range and payload capacity. The lack of a more powerful radar like AESA due to limited cooling space in the nose cone. Another problem is due to lower landing gear, it cannot accommodate RAAD. To offset that it needs to be accommodated on a wing station. There is a reason airforce around the globe invest in different platforms, why should it be any different for PAF? Yes money is an issue but with economy getting better new options need to be looked at and if possible inducted in limited numbers.

 

[Hassan Guy]

No matter how much we invest on JF-17 it will still remain a point defense fighter and still will lack on several aspects. For example its limited range and payload capacity. The lack of a more powerful radar like AESA due to limited cooling space in the nose cone. Another problem is due to lower landing gear, it cannot accommodate RAAD. To offset that it needs to be accommodated on a wing station. There is a reason airforce around the globe invest in different platforms, why should it be any different for PAF? Yes money is an issue but with economy getting better new options need to be looked at and if possible inducted in limited numbers.

Yeah, the JF-17 isn't on par with Su-30mki, rafale, and others.
Unless they redsign the airframe adding more avionics won't add much.

 

[ghauri05]

the technologies are getting more complex

so were they not complex for americans??? yes they were ..but we have sen in past Russians have caught up with americans may be with a slighter delay....n chinese have found some solution to fill their needs..so they will do this time too..this may take some time...but actually chinese, for the very first time have behaved in a proactive manner with the beginning of J-20 program..in the past...their programs to cacth up with russia and usa have initiated much later

Saudi, Kuwait and Oman have ordered the Tranche 3 Eurofighter, It's becoming a joke these countries have better aircraft then Pakistan at this point.

Yes Indeed.PAF trains these countries n they have better fighters than us...that tells something horribly went wrong with PAF's planning for procurement.

 

[CHI RULES]

except point3 all those goodies are in the block-3, DSI limit aircraft speed with in mach 2 and top speed doesn't matter it accelerations that matters

Top speed gives idea of avg sustained speed, further DSI is already implicated in j10B has max speed of Mach 2.2.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Top speed gives idea of avg sustained speed, further DSI is already implicated in j10B has max speed of Mach 2.2.

bro where is stated that J-10B has a speed of 2.2, F-35 has huge 43000 lbs engine with a top speed of Just 1.6 mach so what your point, are you want to thunder to super cruise? sustained speed for most of fighter jet are subsonic, so what so special in sustained speed?

 

[CHI RULES]

Yeah, the JF-17 isn't on par with Su-30mki, rafale, and others.
Unless they redsign the airframe adding more avionics won't add much.

The main role of JF17 is and shall be air to air combat for which adding more avionics in current form shall do much. i.e in case of war our JF17s may have to face Indian long range SAMS even within our territory along with next gen BVRs in case of long range encounters which can only be countered only JF17s will/shall have credible next gen defensive suit, further they have to counter superior jamming capabilities. They should have a capable IRST which may prove to be challenging in countering SU30s, Rafael and upgraded Mig 29s. So far we can consider JF17 in category of 4th gen fighters but on edge if we wan't to make it a backbone then we should have to induct hi tech gadgets in block-III.

On other hand I am sure that PAF aeronautical engineers may have drawn next gen fighter designs, but to start production first we should have to build infrastructure which will come in shape of aeronautical city being started to be built by PAF. The project after completion will provide not only required manpower from top to bottom but also be fruitful in R&D. After it;s completion we may see in decade the production of domestic AESA radars, IRSTs, stealth paints/materials, testing labs and even AAMs production.

It is reality that many gadgets of 4th gen JF17 are imported from China then how we may start production of 5th gen jet now.

PAF in order to maintain parity should induct 5th gen fighter in next 5-6 years, irrelevant whether IAF inducts 5th gen jet or not. We have two paths one is to indulge in production of J31 as it is already in final stages, we may get our manpower trained by sending them to China and may get true 5th gen jet by comparatively lesser financial sharing and lesser time span i.e 2-3 Years. On other hand if we go for Turkish TFX program then we will have to wait longer as it is in initial stages and may take ten years to shape