What's new

A Mughal goes to Pakistan to renew blood ties

Rajputs are also considered tribal clans... they have been absorbed into hinduism because these tribes came into region before Jatts did.. but even jatts have been little bit absorbed into hindu mythology but not as much as rajputs... rajputs are older tribes in region.. jatts came much later.. jatts are decendants of sakas... but jatts and rajputs are still both tribes.. rajput history is just more mixed with hinduism because they have longer history in region than jatts.. rajputs came earlier.. jatts came into region later... but both are separate tribes..


.A Rajput (Hindi: राजपूत) is a member of one of the major groups of the Hindu Kshatriya varna (social order) in the Indian subcontinent, particularly North India.[1][2][3] They enjoy a reputation as soldiers; many of them serve in the Indian Armed Forces. During the British Raj, the Government accepted them and recruited many (primarily non-aristocratic) Rajputs into their armies.[4] Current-day Rajasthan is home to most of the Rajputs, although demographically the Rajput population and the former Rajput states are found spread through much the subcontinent, particularly in North India and central India. Populations are found in Himachal Pradesh, Jammu, Punjab, Uttaranchal, Madhya Pradesh, Bihar, Gujarat, Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh.

That resonates with what I have read in history as well
 
.
Because we Pakistanis see Mughals and other Muslim rulers of the subcontinent as heros while indians view Mughals and other Muslim rulers as tyrants.

Nope, not really. BTW they are Muslims by name, but they drank alcohol, smoked, fell for the temptations of flesh and took over other Muslims kingdoms when they knew they can take it over and their resources, etc. They are very similar to other Mongol royals that converted to Islam.
 
.
Nusli_Wadia_300.jpg

Nusli wadia - Jinnah's grandson
Nusli Wadia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10slid7.jpg

Jeh wadia - great grandson

ness.jpg

Ness wadia - great grandson

So Dina Wadia moved to India? Or did her English husband move to India and formed and compay there? I am confused as to how they are in India.
 
.
That resonates with what I have read in history as well

Thats not history Peshwa.. thats mythology...

try this..

History of Rajputs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Genealogical Evidence
....
The most damning evidence proving that the Rajputs are Saka comes from the genealogy of the Rajputs themselves. However, first a few notes about the Rajput Race. The Jats are in fact, Rajputs, as are Ahirs and Gujjars. There are no racial differences between these stocks, all are descendants of Saka immigrants; the differences are purely social and customary, reflecting partly the degree of pollution by Indo-Aryan customs.
....
Even casual observers note that the Rajputs form a majority of the population in the Greater Rajputana region : " ... they [Jats/Jits ] now constitute a vast majority of the peasantry of western Rajwarra, and perhaps of northern India." [ Tod.II.138 ] This feature is most obvious in Rajwarra or Rajputana, and is less obvious in the Punjab, where Mughal immigration has effectively overwhelmed any Saka survivals. The Sikhs are mixed Saka-Mughal stock, with ample evidence showing that both Mughallic and Scythic populations converting to the faith. Thus, Sikhism displays a combination of Saura-Saka and Islamic-Mughal influences. There is very little Indo-Aryan influence on Sikhism; it is Saka influence which was deliberately ignored and suppressed.
....
In Rajputana, even the commercial class are Scythic : "Nine-tenths of the bankers and commercial men of India are natives of Maroodes, and these chiefly of the Jain faith .. All these claim a Rajput descent." [ Tod.II.127 ] Adding these classes leads to the startling conclusion that, except for the Brahmans (ca. 10 %), Black Untouchables or Sudroids (ca. 15 %), and Mughals (ca. 10 %), the rest of the population, comprising 65 % of Rajputana, is of Saka descent.
 
.
So Dina Wadia moved to India? Or did her English husband move to India and formed and compay there? I am confused as to how they are in India.

her husband wasn't english.. he was an Indian Parsi.. so she moved to her husband's country.. which was India..
 
.
Rajputs during the medieval period were a dominant caste in Northwestern India, including the Punjab region.
As a forward caste, Rajputs have not been counted as a caste in the official census in the Republic of India since 1940. According to the 1911 census in British India, the total Rajput population in the Punjab was 1,635,578,[1] of which 1,222,024 (74.5%) were Muslim, 388,744 (24%) were Hindu and (24,810) (1.5%) were Sikh. Traditionally, in the plains of Punjab, most of the Rajput clans had converted to Islam and some Rajput villages in the Punjab Region converted, wholly or partially, to Sikhism. The extent of conversion depended on the influence of Sikhism in that region. The Rajput clans of Punjab hills (modern Himachal Pradesh and Gurdaspur and Hoshiarpur districts) remained Hindu.[2]

Muslim Rajputs naturally engaged in the Pakistani military in strong numbers, reaching ranks of Generals and the highest grade of Chief of Staff such as 7th Chief of Army Staff General Tikka Khan, Narma, Rajput and the 10th Chief of Army Satff General Asif Nawaz Khan Janjua.

Some of the most respected officers of the Pakistan Army including its first General, PA 1, Muhammed Akbar Khan(Order of the British Empire), PA 2 General Muhammad Iftikhar Khan(designated to become the first C-in-C, but died in an aircrash), PA 12 Brig.General Muhammed Zafar(first Indian to become Commander of Cavalry) and PA 48 General Muhammad Anwar Khan (Pakistan's first E-in-C) all hail from this clan. General Anwar is considered the father of Pakistan's Corps of Engineers, and also served as Chairman OGDC.
 
.
Iqbal got it right....

Delhi being the capital of India had a symbolic significance more than power...The Marathas and the Sikhs controlled most of India and the Delhi Mughals paid taxes to them...In fact the Mughals had to call the Marathas to defend against Abdali and other invading Afghans. So the British controlled India only after they were able to defeat these two groups....nevertheless the symbolism of Delhi as the capital was used by the British to send a message to the Indians that their "King" was now just a British agent

Bahadur Shah Zafar was used as a source of unity among pre-independence Indians.... they rallied under his name to inspire the mutinous soldiers.....It was the flame to light the fire....You got that right..

Actually was the other way around. Mughals joined the Afghans against the Maratahs hence the 3rd Battle of Panipat.

Battle of Panipat (1761) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the rest of post agreed, Marathas and Sikhs were the powers Britain needed to defeat in order to secure domination of India. Nevetheless a competant Mughal King could still have turned things around after the Marathas were defeated at Panipat.
 
.
So Dina Wadia moved to India? Or did her English husband move to India and formed and compay there? I am confused as to how they are in India.

She didn't move anywhere, Jinnah lived in Bombay. She married a Parsi - Neville Wadia & their son is Nusli Wadia. Dina Wadia now stays in NY though she has been petitioning the courts in India for handing back the house that Jinnah built(now worth about $60 million) to her. Her son & his sons run a large business empire including Bombay Dyeing, Britannia & Go air.
 
.
200px-Amir_Khan_2007.jpg


Amir Iqbal Khan (Urdu: امیر اقبال خان) (born 8 December 1986 in Bolton, Greater Manchester[1]) is a British boxer currently WBA World light welterweight champion. Khan won the belt at the age of 22, making him Britain's third-youngest world champion after Naseem Hamed and Herbie Hide.
He was previously in the lightweight division, where he held the Commonwealth, WBO Inter-Continental and WBA International titles. He also became the youngest British Olympic boxing medallist when he won silver at the 2004 Athens Olympics at the age of 17. He is commonly known by the nickname "King Khan"

Khan, a British Pakistani was born and raised in Bolton, England. Khan belongs to the Janjua Rajput warrior clan[4][5] of Maira Muturr in Rawalpindi Pakistan[6] which has a long and well documented martial reputation.
 
.
Actually Battle of Buxar is perfect example of how weak the Mughals were.. they fought 1 battle and that too after they had already been subdued by British.. they were angry so they had to combine their army with oudh and bengal to fight.. and it was puny expedition.. compare this with the other kingdoms like the Anglo-Sikh wars where British had to fight literally 2 huge wars with many battles before they could take Punjab... and it was complete opposite of Buxar.. in Punjab it was Sikh army on one side and on the other side was combined British force with Bengalis and Marathas and even all the kingdoms they had subdues... a very big difference from Buxar where it was only 1 battle and that too Mughals Oudh and Bengal had to fight combined with lone British force which at max had local bengali sepoys.. it actually is good example of how weak Mughals were not how strong..



Ok.

As said we are saying pretty much the same thing. However point of my post is the fact that the Mughals were still taking independent actions uptill the 1760s so they were still not a completly spent force. As said after Buxar in my opinion their fate was sealed, before that had there been a competant King like Babur or Akber things might have turned differently.
 
.
As for the rest of post agreed, Marathas and Sikhs were the powers Britain needed to defeat in order to secure domination of India. Nevetheless a competant Mughal King could still have turned things around after the Marathas were defeated at Panipat.

I disagree.. because for one.. Durranis were stronger than Mughals at that time.. and the Sikhs who were sitting idle waiting for afghans and marathas to weaken themselves fighting each other.. launched all out war against Afghanis as soon as marathas were defeated.. it was like killing 2 birds with one stone.. they got afghanis to get rid of maratha problem.. and afghani problem they themselves than went to war against.. in all this.. Mughals were spectators... yes they fought against sikhs to try and help Afghanis but real power was still Durranis which were pushed back to afghanistan by Sikh armies.. there was little Mughals could do once afghanis were defeated...
 
.
Jat Muslims or Musalman Jats (Urdu: مسلمان جاٹ) are a Indo-Aryan tribal group found throughout the Punjab region of Pakistan and India.[2] The Jat Hindus starting converting to Islam from the Middle Ages onward.

Historically, Muslim Jat clans predominated in western Punjab, in areas which now are found in Pakistan. Traditionally, the districts of Gujranwala, Shaikhupura, Lahore, Sialkot, Jhang, Bahawalpur, Multan, Muzaffargarh, Sahiwal, Sargodha, and Gujrat were seen as strongholds of the Jats. Major Jat clans predominated in this region, including the Bajwa, Basra, Malhi, Goraya, Heer, Cheema, Chatha, Dudhra, Sandhu, Gill, Janjua, Ghuman, Khera, Kahloon, Dhillon, Dawana, Dhudhi, Bhangu, Virk, Lodhra, Gondal, Sidhu, Sulehria, Hundet, Sial, Randhawa, Nanda, Daha, Noon, Khar, Manes, Naich ,Pansota, Waraich, and Jajja.
 
.
As said we are saying pretty much the same thing. However point of my post is the fact that the Mughals were still taking independent actions uptill the 1760s so they were still not a completly spent force. As said after Buxar in my opinion their fate was sealed, before that had there been a competant King like Babur or Akber things might have turned differently.

ok but understand that babur and akbar had allies.. they had strong armies.. and they had weak enemies... by end of aurangzeb.. it was totally opposite for mughals.. they had no real allies.. they had weak armies.. and they had strong enemies... there wasn't really anywhere else for mughals to go by then but down.. only person who could have saved a collapse was aurangzeb but he managed to piss everyone off.. fight a war with marathas for 27 years.. and totally bankrupt his empire.. aurangzeb's stupidity or over-confidence call it was probably the reason which caused fall of mughals.. after that point mughals really had nothing going for them..
 
.
Jat Muslims or Musalman Jats (Urdu: مسلمان جاٹ) are a Indo-Aryan tribal group found throughout the Punjab region of Pakistan and India.[2] The Jat Hindus starting converting to Islam from the Middle Ages onward.

Historically, Muslim Jat clans predominated in western Punjab, in areas which now are found in Pakistan. Traditionally, the districts of Gujranwala, Shaikhupura, Lahore, Sialkot, Jhang, Bahawalpur, Multan, Muzaffargarh, Sahiwal, Sargodha, and Gujrat were seen as strongholds of the Jats. Major Jat clans predominated in this region, including the Bajwa, Basra, Malhi, Goraya, Heer, Cheema, Chatha, Dudhra, Sandhu, Gill, Janjua, Ghuman, Khera, Kahloon, Dhillon, Dawana, Dhudhi, Bhangu, Virk, Lodhra, Gondal, Sidhu, Sulehria, Hundet, Sial, Randhawa, Nanda, Daha, Noon, Khar, Manes, Naich ,Pansota, Waraich, and Jajja.

dude i think the point has been made.. chill now loll.. or atleast wait someone to reply to you... you just spamming now...
 
.
I disagree.. because for one.. Durranis were stronger than Mughals at that time.. and the Sikhs who were sitting idle waiting for afghans and marathas to weaken themselves fighting each other.. launched all out war against Afghanis as soon as marathas were defeated.. it was like killing 2 birds with one stone.. they got afghanis to get rid of maratha problem.. and afghani problem they themselves than went to war against.. in all this.. Mughals were spectators... yes they fought against sikhs to try and help Afghanis but real power was still Durranis which were pushed back to afghanistan by Sikh armies.. there was little Mughals could do once afghanis were defeated...

Aha so whilst the Sikhs were busy fighting the Afghans and the Marathas were still recovering from their loss what were the Mughals doing then? well Shah Alam got an army together and attempted to defeat the Brits at Buxar 3 years later. Obviously this failed but had the battle outcome been different things could have again as mentioned turned out very differently.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom