A Mughal goes to Pakistan to renew blood ties

[Iqbal_Brar]

A little correction there, veer. Not all the Misls were of the same size and strength. Their numbers depended on the territory they controlled. The ones you have mentioned could have been the biggest but surely there were others that were smaller.

true bro.. but the 2 i mentioned already outnumber Mughal + Oadh + Bengal combined.. there are 9 more misls to go... thats my point..

 

[Nalwa]

true bro.. but the 2 i mentioned already outnumber Mughal + Oadh + Bengal combined.. there are 9 more misls to go... thats my point..

Agreed.

 

[T-Faz]

yeh.. go read Jinnah's biography..

omar is right.. Dina Wadia.. the daughter of Jinnah who chose to marry and live in India.. the daughter Jinnah disowned.. and the daughter who disowned her father and his country.. ironic story his..

and this is Jinnah's great grandson..

Dina Wadia was only estranged from her father Jinnah becuase he did not want her marry a parsi like he had. He went through a lot of problem's because Rutti's father never approved of their marriage and it hurt him alot.

Ruttie's father always intervined and made their life difficult. Jinnah did not want Dina to be marred by the same problems, but Dina still wanted to marry her choice and Jinnah decided it would be best to not interfere in her life and let her be.

She did not move to India, her husband and his family were never going to move to Pakistan anyway becuase of their business interests.

Dina was with him when Jinnah was about to die.

Btw, Jinnah has family in Pakistan too, his nephews/nieces and their children still live in Pakistan.

Liaqat Merchant is a known family member of Jinnah who looks after his estate and this article of his details Jinnah's family and their where abouts.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[LaBong]

Dina Wadia was only estranged from her father Jinnah becuase he did not want her marry a parsi like he had. He went through a lot of problem's because Rutti's father never approved of their marriage and it hurt him alot.

Ruttie's father always intervined and made their life difficult. Jinnah did not want Dina to be marred by the same problems, but Dina still wanted to marry her choice and Jinnah decided it would be best to not interfere in her life and let her be.

She did not move to India, her husband and his family were never going to move to Pakistan anyway becuase of their business interests.

Dina was with him when Jinnah was about to die.

Btw, Jinnah has family in Pakistan too, his nephews/nieces and their children still live in Pakistan.

Liaqat Merchant is a known family member of Jinnah who looks after his estate and this article of his details Jinnah's family and their where abouts.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

This is actually bit twisting the history. Jinnah actually disowned her daughter for marrying a Parsi and also there was a famous verbal contention between Jinnah and Dina. Also Jinnah didn't marry a Parsi, but a Muslim(converted).

Jinnah actually followed Ruttie's father who disowned her daughter and had no relation with her for rest of her life, so intervening wasn't possible.

Anyway we can take it as their personal matters.

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

Dina Wadia was only estranged from her father Jinnah becuase he did not want her marry a parsi like he had. He went through a lot of problem's because Rutti's father never approved of their marriage and it hurt him alot.

Ruttie's father always intervined and made their life difficult. Jinnah did not want Dina to be marred by the same problems, but Dina still wanted to marry her choice and Jinnah decided it would be best to not interfere in her life and let her be.

She did not move to India, her husband and his family were never going to move to Pakistan anyway becuase of their business interests.

Dina was with him when Jinnah was about to die.

Btw, Jinnah has family in Pakistan too, his nephews/nieces and their children still live in Pakistan.

Liaqat Merchant is a known family member of Jinnah who looks after his estate and this article of his details Jinnah's family and their where abouts.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

thanks for the article.. really informative.. and ironical to see his extended family too, not just his daughter, spread out and living in India.. Jinnah family still spread out among both the nations...

This is actually bit twisting the history. Jinnah actually disowned her daughter for marrying a Parsi and also there was a famous verbal contention between Jinnah and Dina. Also Jinnah didn't marry a Parsi, but a Muslim(converted).

Jinnah actually followed Ruttie's father who disowned her daughter and had no relation with her for rest of her life, so intervening wasn't possible.

Anyway we can take it as their personal matters.

Actually Jinnah's wife was a parsee.. not a Muslim.. it was only after she married him that she converted to Islam.. rest you're right..

 

[Kambojaric]

okk just to put things in perspective....

by the battle of Buxar...

Mughals + Oudh + Bengal = 40,000 soldiers

the Ahluwalia Sikh Misl which was responsible of raiding Afghan territory alone consisted of 30,000 soldiers and 6000 cavalry... Bhuma misl consisted of 20,000-30,000 soldiers and 10,000 cavalry.. there were 11 Sikh misls in total..

this is in addition to the Sikh Nihang force which consisted of thousands of cavalry.. dunno their number but basically these families from birth are only taught how to fight.. even to this day in modern times these families still only grow up studying how to fight war from the moment they are born..

this in addition to the Dal Khalsa cavalry force which consisted of about 70,000 cavalry..

The combined mughal force which fought the British at Buxar was puny compared to the other regional armies..

And yet in the first Battle of Panipat a Mughal army of 12000 men defeated Delhi Sultunate army of 100000. Numbers isnt everything my friend, a good general can achieve wonders with minimal resources. As said weak rulers lead to the fall of the Mughals.

 

[Nalwa]

And yet in the first Battle of Panipat a Mughal army of 12000 men defeated Delhi Sultunate army of 100000. Numbers isnt everything my friend, a good general can achieve wonders with minimal resources. As said weak rulers lead to the fall of the Mughals.

Your numbers are right and you are also correct about the importance of tactics and military leadership. Yet there's an important factor missing in your post above. Technology. Or more specifically gun-powder technology. Babur had the advantage of using field canons. These proved devastating against the Lodhi army.

 

[T-Faz]

This is actually bit twisting the history. Jinnah actually disowned her daughter for marrying a Parsi and also there was a famous verbal contention between Jinnah and Dina. Also Jinnah didn't marry a Parsi, but a Muslim(converted).

Jinnah actually followed Ruttie's father who disowned her daughter and had no relation with her for rest of her life, so intervening wasn't possible.

Anyway we can take it as their personal matters.

Ruttie was a parsi, she converted to Islam to marry Jinnah. Her father was very incensed by this and Ruttie did keep in contant with her family.

Jinnah later in his life got very involved in politics and his wife become very lonely.

thanks for the article.. really informative.. and ironical to see his extended family too, not just his daughter, spread out and living in India.. Jinnah family still spread out among both the nations...

His family still keeps in contact with each other but its like children of siblings who find their own way and that is what happened. Becuase some of his nieces married people in India, they stayed back. Dina spends most of her time in US anyway.

Actually Jinnah's wife was a parsee.. not a Muslim.. it was only after she married him that she converted to Islam.. rest you're right..

It's odd and very offensive how Indians bring up the matter of Jinnahs private life to somehow demean him.

Pakistani's do not question Gandhi and the troubled relation with his first born who struggled a lot becuase of it.

We also do not mention Gandhi's reaction when he found out that his son converted to Islam.

 

[Nalwa]

It's odd and very offensive how Indians bring up the matter of Jinnahs private life to somehow demean him.

Pakistani's do not question Gandhi and the troubled relation with his first born who struggled a lot becuase of it.

We also do not mention Gandhi's reaction when he found out that his son converted to Islam.

Although I don't disagree with you regarding the part in bold, you spoke too soon in the rest of your post.

Right on cue-
Ganghi, The Real Face of 'Mahatma'

 

[LaBong]

Actually Jinnah's wife was a parsee.. not a Muslim.. it was only after she married him that she converted to Islam.. rest you're right..

Jinnah married her as a Muslim, not Parsi(probably because of the political reasons). Not sure if Dina Wadia converted to Zoroastrianism before marriage.

 

[LaBong]

It's odd and very offensive how Indians bring up the matter of Jinnahs private life to somehow demean him.

Pakistani's do not question Gandhi and the troubled relation with his first born who struggled a lot becuase of it.

We also do not mention Gandhi's reaction when he found out that his son converted to Islam.

No not trying to demean Jinnah, but we should take things as it happened.

 

[Achuyut]

Ruttie was a parsi, she converted to Islam to marry Jinnah. Her father was very incensed by this and Ruttie did keep in contant with her family.

Jinnah later in his life got very involved in politics and his wife become very lonely.



His family still keeps in contact with each other but its like children of siblings who find their own way and that is what happened. Becuase some of his nieces married people in India, they stayed back. Dina spends most of her time in US anyway.



It's odd and very offensive how Indians bring up the matter of Jinnahs private life to somehow demean him.

Pakistani's do not question Gandhi and the troubled relation with his first born who struggled a lot becuase of it.

We also do not mention Gandhi's reaction when he found out that his son converted to Islam.

His son later converted back to Hinduism, and there is already a movie on gandhi and his son's relation...

Gnadhiji was just a stubborn father many like ours.

 

[LaBong]

His son later converted back to Hinduism, and there is already a movie on gandhi and his son's relation...

Gnadhiji was just a stubborn father many like ours.

How was Gandhi any different from Jinnah at it?

 

[T-Faz]

Although I don't disagree with you regarding the part in bold, you spoke too soon in the rest of your post.

Right on cue-
Ganghi, The Real Face of 'Mahatma'

So one guy starts a topic which has been closed is actually a representation of all others.

The thread also had a Pakistani asking for the thread to be closed.

As for Jinnah's marriage, there was great opposition to it by Muslims leaders, Parsis and Rutti's family. So she did convert to Islam before marriage adapting the name Maryam.

 

[Nalwa]

The thread also had a Pakistani asking for the thread to be closed.

As for Jinnah's marriage, there was great opposition to it by Muslims leaders, Parsis and Rutti's family. So she did convert to Islam before marriage adapting the name Maryam.

I meant no disrespect but just wanted to point it out that peeks into personal lives are a sub-continental trait.

So one guy starts a topic which has been closed is actually a representation of all others.

Its strange you accuse me of generalizing when your post below isnt too different. You chose a few examples from this thread (and may be even this forum?) to generalize all Indians as taking a personal interest in Jinnah's private life.

It's odd and very offensive how Indians bring up the matter of Jinnahs private life to somehow demean him.

Again, I didn't mean to pick unnecessarily fights, just wanted to show that it happens both sides.