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8 Chinese submarines approval & used western subs talks

There is also an other out look to what you are saying. Chinese Subs are for domestic and export for Latin America and Africa where as the Western are for the ARAB States.

Considering the Arab Defance Force then U-209 / U-214 is a better and logical choice. Along with the French ones but if France sites TOT issues in regards to Pakistan is all because of it requires more money which can be arraigned however France can not immediately provide these. The U-209 and U214 can be made available immediately new as well as old.
Some Used well maintained U-209 from Turkey will be a good addition to Pak navy as stop gaps if they become available while the domestic submarines are being made.
France is supplying India now with the Scorpene Subs, which are bigger and more sophisticated than the Agosta. Pakistan will build subs at least in par with the Scorpene.

What are you trying to say that the deal is of 14 subs in all?
6 Qing class ordered in 2011 (deal signed), plus 8 in new approved deal composed of some S-26 (2600 t) and S-30 (3000t) based on latest Chinese submarine technologies..
 
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6 Qing class ordered in 2011 (deal signed), plus 8 in new approved deal composed of some S-26 (2600 t) and S-30 (3000t) based on latest Chinese submarine technologies..

Quite possible...

The 6 U-209/1200's the Turk's have are without AIP though.
 
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Why Pakistan want to purchase used subs like U-209 which are in use of IN too. In near future even IN may retire those.

Agosta Class is superseded by S-80 class (which Spain wants), is it possible for Pakistan to go for those subs?? @Penguin how good Italian S-80 will be as they also supersede Scorpion subs.

S-80-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Agosta-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would Pakistan Navy go for S-80 they are only 4 being made.
U-214 is a better option.
 
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Why would Pakistan Navy go for S-80 they are only 4 being made.
U-214 is a better option.

Only 04 are ordered that is why 04 will be made but it also said that it is contender in new sub tender of IN. Also from news it looks like Germany and France will not offer new subs to Pakistan and if Germany offer those then they will ask huge amount which Pakistan may not be able to pay, that is why Pakistan should also look other possible vendors with good tech and S-80 supersedes Scorpion subs too.
 
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Only 04 are ordered that is why 04 will be made but it also said that it is contender in new sub tender of IN. Also from news it looks like Germany and France will not offer new subs to Pakistan and if Germany offer those then they will ask huge amount which Pakistan may not be able to pay, that is why Pakistan should also look other possible vendors with good tech and S-80 supersedes Scorpion subs too.
Lets see what happens and how does Pakistan play her cards.:-)
 
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  1. I have the following inkling to post. I know that the PN has been looking at 6 subs from China. The reasons as always are no other source, ease of integration of specific requirements and armament, soft loans and an unmatched price. PN is also aware of the dire need to replace the Augusta 70s which may have been upgraded but are now largely irrelevant in the subcontinental theatre. It has been searching far and wide for a possible second hand buy either from the french who are clearly not wanting to get involved for fear of losing the lucrative aviation deal. The Greek U214s may be an option if they become available as the Greeks clearly cannot keep them. I however don't think the Germans will play ball with us due to internal political problems and availability of suitable platforms. There is therefore talk of Turkish subs as well which is an indirect way of acquiring the same/ similar technology without breaking the bank.
The last aspect which does not make sense to me is where is all the money coming from, the answer to which may well be a joint Saudi effort to develop and train its Navy. Now that the fear of aggressive posturing by Pakistani forces (at least covertly) has dissipated is it this factor which is ruling the sudden expansion of the naval armada of Pakistan. The possibility of buying New F22, ATRs, FACs and now the sub deal in conjunction with the HQ 9/16 deal points to a helpful hand rather than Pakistan's own meagre resources.
Araz
 
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Why would Pakistan Navy go for S-80 they are only 4 being made.
U-214 is a better option.
Why would they go for the U-214 now while paying 5 to 6 billion for newer submarines in par with it if not more suitable to Pakistani needs.
Now for the 5 billion $ deal (minimum), at let's say an average of 300 million $ per Submarine, that is the equivalent of 16 submarines for Pakistan with ToT, while a deal of the same amount would have bought Pakistan a maximum of 8 U-214/216 with no ToT and too many strings attached...
This is the best deal that Pakistan can get.
 
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  1. I have the following inkling to post. I know that the PN has been looking at 6 subs from China. The reasons as always are no other source, ease of integration of specific requirements and armament, soft loans and an unmatched price. PN is also aware of the dire need to replace the Augusta 70s which may have been upgraded but are now largely irrelevant in the subcontinental theatre. It has been searching far and wide for a possible second hand buy either from the french who are clearly not wanting to get involved for fear of losing the lucrative aviation deal. The Greek U214s may be an option if they become available as the Greeks clearly cannot keep them. I however dont think the Germans will play ball with us. There is therefore talk of Turkish subs as well.
The last aspect which does not make sense to me is where is all the money coming from, the answer to which may well be a joint Saudi effort to develop and train its Navy. Now that the fear of aggressive posturing by Pakistani forces (at peast covertly) has dissipated is it this factor which is ruling the sudden expansion of the naval armada of Pakistan. The possibility of buying New F22, ATRs, FACs and now the sub deal in conjunction with the HQ 9/16 deal points to a helpful hand rather than Pakistan's own meagre resources.
Araz

Zakat, Ha! Ha! Ha!
Saudi Arabia and Malaysia wanted to have a submarine JV with Pakistan, maybe this is it. Pakistan with its existing Know-How in building submarines and the new acquired Know hows will make Pakistan the pivot, and will provide the much needed _own_ submarines to at least the 3 nations.
 
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Why would they go for the U-214 now while paying 5 to 6 billion for newer submarines in par with it if not more suitable to Pakistani needs.
Now for the 5 billion $ deal (minimum), at let's say an average of 300 million $ per Submarine, that is the equivalent of 16 submarines for Pakistan with ToT, while a deal of the same amount would have bought Pakistan a maximum of 8 U-214/216 with no ToT and too many strings attached...
This is the best deal that Pakistan can get.


I think PN is not confident that Chinese Subs are as good as German Type 216 / Type-214 or Spanish S-80 class or even its Agosta 90's AIP technology. It is just a choice out of compulsion. It prefers Quality over Quantity.

China has historic problems with AIP technology and Submarines construction, especially Weapon integration need further development....PN order of 6 Chinese S20, or the upgraded S26 with AIP was sufficient to fill numbers gap.
 
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