44,000 sign petition for France to take control of Lebanon

[beijingwalker]

First time to see any country volunteering to be colonized...

Stockholm syndrome, some brainless Hong kong youth want to go back to British rule.

 

[Nein]

One word from Merkel and the sultan bent the knee recently. Turkey barks hard but heels when it sees the stick

Now Greece signed a deal with egypt basically screwing any good will of diplomacy.

Aunty merkels attempts were futile.

Ahh yes greeks kept on shouting for everybody. As usual I dont expect any useful......

 

[SalarHaqq]

The Europeans fed Levantine Arabs these myths that they are not Arabs but Phoenicians. Levantine Arabs adopted them and built a false history on them. The Assads brainwashed an entire two to three generations of Syrians with these lies.

You're mistaken about the governments of Hafez and Bashar al-Assad in Syria. They're actually Ba'athist, Ba'athism being a thoroughly Arab nationalist ideology. That's why the Damascus government uses official designations such as Syrian Arab Republic, Syrian Arab Army etc.

The pan-Arab dimension in the thinking of the Assads has been prominent as well. Some of the points of contention between Hafez al-Assad and his predecessor Salah Jadid included the latter's advocacy of a more drastic reduction of ties with pro-western Arab regimes (Saudi Arabia, Jordan), as well as Assad's readiness to reconcile with the Iraqi Ba'ath party, which was then opposed by Jadid.

Syrian authorities under the Assads, whether through official discourse or public education, consistently implemented the notion that Syrians are of Arab identity. They did not promote Phoenicianism but stuck to Arabism.

Secular Lebanese thinkers, mostly Christians, created new origin stories for Lebanese people, who historically are not much different than Syrians.

You even had Nazi-like parties founded like SSNP,

I am leaving aside the question whether their theories are correct or not from an "ethnic" point of view, even if I would not doubt that the ethno-genesis of contemporary Levantines must have some Phoenician and Aramean input to it simply because these ancient Semitic populations used to inhabit the lands prior to Arab immigration.

What I'd like to highlight is that there are two distinct brands of Phoenicianism, which cannot be amalgamated given their distinct geopolitical outlooks.

The one developed by mostly Christian Lebanese thinkers was indeed looking towards the west. Their particular idea of a Phoenician identity was intended to create a distance between them and their neighbours with a reattachment to western colonial powers (namely the French Republic) in mind.

By contrast, the Syrian Social Nationalist Party (SSNP) advocated the cultivation of a Greater Syrian identity (which to be exact is not completely identical to Phoenicianism). To them Greater Syria includes not just current Syrian and Lebanese territory but the entire Levant plus Iraq and Arab- and Assyrian-inhabited border regions of peripheral non-Arab states (Turkey, Iran etc). One might call it a form of northern Semitic nationalism.

But more importantly, the SSNP's geopolitical position was resolutely anti-colonialist. They strongly rejected and even actively fought western colonial powers, in particular the French mandate over Lebanon and Syria. Anti-colonial struggle was actually the main motivation behind the foundation of the SSNP in 1932.

Also, during the creation of the zionist occupation regime in Palestine and the mass expulsion of native Palestinians by Isra"el"i settlers, the SSNP did not hesitate to join the anti-zionist camp with full force.

It was actually Britishers and Isra"el" who trapped the SSNP's founder Antoun Sa'adeh in a cowardly way and then had their Lebanese clients execute him in 1948 because of his staunch engagement against the illegal apartheid state.

You even had Nazi-like parties founded like SSNP,

They have little in common with German national-socialism on the ideological level. Any resemblance is mostly due to inconsequential superficialities like emblem colors, name of the party and so on. Also don't forget that in the 1930's, many currents accross the Muslim world considered Germany as a potential ally in the struggle against British and French colonial powers occupying their lands, but that didn't make them adopt national-socialism in the primary sense.

which strives to eliminate religion entirely

Currently they are in coalition with Assad.

It is a secularist party, therefore it seeks separation of state and religion. I never came accross writings or statements by the SSNP calling for outright elimination of religion, in fact their leaders claimed that all traditional faiths practiced by the Syrian people (every denomination of Islam or Christianity with a historical presence in the Levant and Mesopotamia and even Judaism, as well as other ancient religions of the region) are part of the Greater Syrian heritage.

Then, chances are that the secularism they would have implemented should they ever have gained power (let's not forget the party was banned in Syria until the 2000's) would have been no different to the Ba'athist Syrian government's secularism, i. e. an imperfect one in which a host of purely civil matters are still governed by Islamic shari'a law, and in which the government was funding a network of religious schools spanning the entire country named "Hafez al-Assad schools" where not only Bukhari and Muslim but even Ibn Taymiyah and Abdul Wahhab were taught (something critics counselled Damascus to stop doing, as in effect numerous individuals who visited these schools would turn later turn against the Syrian government). That's why radical western secularists often rail Syria for not practicing "true secularism".

Now I personally am not a secularist and it is correct to say the SSNP is neither an Islamic movement nor a secular pan-Arab nationalist one, but apart from that it is definitely not favorable in any way to the presence of neo-colonial western powers in the region either and it also adopts strongly anti-zionist positions. Between this and Islamic-oriented organizations which turn out to be apologetic towards Isra"el" and work for NATO, I don't think Damascus can be blamed for prefering the former as allies.

If Lebanon is to be given to anyone, it should be merged back with Syria.

This is exactly what the SSNP stands for.

This in turn led to the creation of Hezbollah to protect the Shia population of Lebanon from both Christian extremists and Israelis.

That's correct but I would add that Hezbollah was not created to protect just the Shia population of Lebanon but all Lebanese communities from zionist occupation and aggression. This clearly stems from the party's statements and therefore Lebanese citizens from every community, including many Christians and Sunni Muslims, are supportive of Hezbollah in its defensive role protecting Lebanese sovereignty and territorial integrity against the zionist regime.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You're mistaken about the governments of Hafez and Bashar al-Assad in Syria. They're actually Ba'athist, Ba'athism being a thoroughly Arab nationalist ideology. That's why the Damascus government uses official designations such as Syrian Arab Republic, Syrian Arab Army etc.

The pan-Arab dimension in the thinking of the Assads has been prominent as well. Some of the points of contention between Hafez al-Assad and his predecessor Salah Jadid included the latter's advocacy of a more drastic reduction of ties with pro-western Arab regimes (Saudi Arabia, Jordan), as well as Assad's readiness to reconcile with the Iraqi Ba'ath party, which was then opposed by Jadid.

Syrian authorities under the Assads, whether through official discourse or public education, consistently implemented the notion that Syrians are of Arab identity. They did not promote Phoenicianism but stuck to Arabism.



I am leaving aside the question whether their theories are correct or not from an "ethnic" point of view, even if I would not doubt that the ethno-genesis of contemporary Levantines must have some Phoenician and Aramean input to it simply because these ancient Semitic populations used to inhabit the lands prior to Arab immigration.

What I'd like to highlight is that there are two distinct brands of Phoenicianism, which cannot be amalgamated given their distinct geopolitical outlooks.

The one developed by mostly Christian Lebanese thinkers was indeed looking towards the west. Their particular idea of a Phoenician identity was intended to create a distance between them and their neighbours with a reattachment to western colonial powers (namely the French Republic) in mind.

By contrast, the Syrian Social Nationalist Party (SSNP) advocated the cultivation of a Greater Syrian identity (which to be exact is not completely identical to Phoenicianism). To them Greater Syria includes not just current Syrian and Lebanese territory but the entire Levant plus Iraq and Arab- and Assyrian-inhabited border regions of peripheral non-Arab states (Turkey, Iran etc). One might call it a form of northern Semitic nationalism.

But more importantly, the SSNP's geopolitical position was resolutely anti-colonialist. They strongly rejected and even actively fought western colonial powers, in particular the French mandate over Lebanon and Syria. Anti-colonial struggle was actually the main motivation behind the foundation of the SSNP in 1932.

Also, during the creation of the zionist occupation regime in Palestine and the mass expulsion of native Palestinians by Isra"el"i settlers, the SSNP did not hesitate to join the anti-zionist camp with full force.

It was actually Britishers and Isra"el" who trapped the SSNP's founder Antoun Sa'adeh in a cowardly way and then had their Lebanese clients execute him in 1948 because of his staunch engagement against the illegal apartheid state.



They have little in common with German national-socialism on the ideological level. Any resemblance is mostly due to inconsequential superficialities like emblem colors, name of the party and so on. Also don't forget that in the 1930's, many currents accross the Muslim world considered Germany as a potential ally in the struggle against British and French colonial powers occupying their lands, but that didn't make them adopt national-socialism in the primary sense.




It is a secularist party, therefore it seeks separation of state and religion. I never came accross writings or statements by the SSNP calling for outright elimination of religion, in fact their leaders claimed that all traditional faiths practiced by the Syrian people (every denomination of Islam or Christianity with a historical presence in the Levant and Mesopotamia and even Judaism, as well as other ancient religions of the region) are part of the Greater Syrian heritage.

Then, chances are that the secularism they would have implemented should they ever have gained power (let's not forget the party was banned in Syria until the 2000's) would have been no different to the Ba'athist Syrian government's secularism, i. e. an imperfect one in which a host of purely civil matters are still governed by Islamic shari'a law, and in which the government was funding a network of religious schools spanning the entire country named "Hafez al-Assad schools" where not only Bukhari and Muslim but even Ibn Taymiyah and Abdul Wahhab were taught (something critics counselled Damascus to stop doing, as in effect numerous individuals who visited these schools would turn later turn against the Syrian government). That's why radical western secularists often rail Syria for not practicing "true secularism".

Now I personally am not a secularist and it is correct to say the SSNP is neither an Islamic movement nor a secular pan-Arab nationalist one, but apart from that it is definitely not favorable in any way to the presence of neo-colonial western powers in the region either and it also adopts strongly anti-zionist positions. Between this and Islamic-oriented organizations which turn out to be apologetic towards Isra"el" and work for NATO, I don't think Damascus can be blamed for prefering the former as allies.



This is exactly what the SSNP stands for.



That's correct but I would add that Hezbollah was not created to protect just the Shia population of Lebanon but all Lebanese communities from zionist occupation and aggression. This clearly stems from the party's statements and therefore Lebanese citizens from every community, including many Christians and Sunni Muslims, are supportive of Hezbollah in its defensive role protecting Lebanese sovereignty and territorial integrity against the zionist regime.

You are coming from the Iranian mindset which tries to, in futility, reconcile the wide gulf of divergent interests of anti-Syrian resistance groups under Assad dictatorship.

I stand by everything I stated, Assads have corrupted and destroyed the Syrian mind for two generations. SSNP is just a symptom of that corruption, a rather extreme one.

Secular Lebanese thinkers tried to justify their independence from their neighboring countries by concocting a new identity, fully supported in this endeavor by the West. However, that has totally failed because in the end of the day they are all Arabs, and seen as such by the West, Israel, and others. They cannot de-hyphenate themselves from their Arab identity nor the Islamic world (even if they are Christians.)

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Excellent analysis!..........that is exactly what would happen to them but the Lebanese fail to see this as they think that White Western Europeans see the Lebanese as their own wheras they actually seem them as any other Brown/Olive skinned Muslim people. In fact they probably see the Lebanese the same way as they see indians.

Syrians and Lebanese are not much different looking from Pakistanis, Iranians, Turks, and other Arabs.

What brainwashing they have undergone makes them believe in fantasies. Even MB of Levant is guilty of this. I once heard one MB Syrian leader talk about commonality between Syrians and Greeks, to which I said, you mean that they both dress like Turks and consume Turkish cuisine.

I got a bunch of chuckles for that joke.

It's the saddest thing about Lebanon that it is basically in a perpetual state of undeclared civil war. It's as though nobody learns any lessons whatsoever from the 80s. In fact, those seeking bizarre publicity from this tragedy are actually exploiting it for their own sectarian goals. Naturally, the French won't hesitate to aid and abet a phenomenon that is actually divisive and should be condemned.

The West and Israel have kept Lebanon in this state, and Assad did his part also by killing Rafic Hariri. Lebanon was never able to get past the civil war, and it divided the country between the Shia majority population in the south, and the Christian population in Beirut and the north.

Then when it seems like Lebanon will emerge from this situation, Israel launches attacks and bombings, instigating more instability.

Region needs to see its issues be sorted out in way that the regime that invades other countries get corrected ... beside whom supported them most recently handing out Golan Height, West bank to it undermining all int law and norms ..
Militia you refer to was created as response to invasion of Lebanon which eventually ended in 2000 and was completed in 2006 ... The militia has got MPs in parliament and ministers in cabinet and have got strong allies within the country that could form a government ... the materials that led to this catastrophe initially were seized in former administration ,that has got strong bonds with western countries , since 2014 ...
So I do agree the current system has failed .. region needs a reborn something akin to a revolution things can't continue like that. foreign interventions must stop immediately ...
Funnier part is the countries that impose sanction on Lebanon, supported those whom invaded it now try to portray themselves as friend of Lebanon.

Hezbollah is necessary to ensure the representation of the Shia majority of Lebanon. Without it, they would be at the mercy of sectarian extremists in the north and Israeli agents amongst them.

I think we can all agree that Hezbollah is a stabilizing factor for Lebanon and gives Lebanon the ability to resist Israeli ground invasion.

 

[500]

Muslims will never allow this, so France can stay and handle their Muslim population in Paris.

These Lebanese traitors should be dealt with by the government.

So u are a Pakistani living in US and its fine. But if Lebanese wants to join France its a treason. LOL.

If some Christian Arabs give up like this, most likely Hezbollah will become the next ruler of Lebanon. Just being realistic.

Hezbies ALREADY rule the Lebanon. Thats why Lebanon turned into a complete failure.

 

[Dalit]

So u are a Pakistani living in US and its fine. But if Lebanese wants to join France its a treason. LOL.


Hezbies ALREADY rule the Lebanon. Thats why Lebanon turned into a complete failure.

LOL a Zionist shedding crocodile tears for the Lebanese.

How about Israel return Palestinian land to its rightful owners? You are a European who has illegally occupied Palestinian land.

The real reason for Lebanese troubles is Zionist meddling.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Syrians and Lebanese are not much different looking from Pakistanis, Iranians, Turks, and other Arabs.

What brainwashing they have undergone makes them believe in fantasies. Even MB of Levant is guilty of this. I once heard one MB Syrian leader talk about commonality between Syrians and Greeks, to which I said, you mean that they both dress like Turks and consume Turkish cuisine.

I got a bunch of chuckles for that joke.



The West and Israel have kept Lebanon in this state, and Assad did his part also by killing Rafic Hariri. Lebanon was never able to get past the civil war, and it divided the country between the Shia majority population in the south, and the Christian population in Beirut and the north.

Then when it seems like Lebanon will emerge from this situation, Israel launches attacks and bombings, instigating more instability.



Hezbollah is necessary to ensure the representation of the Shia majority of Lebanon. Without it, they would be at the mercy of sectarian extremists in the north and Israeli agents amongst them.

I think we can all agree that Hezbollah is a stabilizing factor for Lebanon and gives Lebanon the ability to resist Israeli ground invasion.

EXACTLY.........In Pakistan, the Kalash and some Pathan clans have blue eyes and blonde hair, just like some Syrian and Lebanese ethnicities do too. This however does NOT make ANY of us have ANY racial or genetic links to the White European races..........

Most Syrians and Lebanese are even darker than I am. That does not however stop me from being a brown skinned/Olive skinned Muslim Pakistani.........

 

[Indos]

The petition is signed by Christian Lebanese.

 

[Mirzah]

So u are a Pakistani living in US and its fine. But if Lebanese wants to join France its a treason. LOL.


Hezbies ALREADY rule the Lebanon. Thats why Lebanon turned into a complete failure.

Both Syria and Lebanon have a common enemy and it is still illegally occupying Lebanese Shebaa farms and Syrian golan heights.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

EXACTLY.........In Pakistan, the Kalash and some Pathan clans have blue eyes and blonde hair, just like some Syrian and Lebanese ethnicities do too. This however does NOT make ANY of us have ANY racial or genetic links to the White European races..........

Most Syrians and Lebanese are even darker than I am. That does not however stop me from being a brown skinned/Olive skinned Muslim Pakistani.........

Half of Punjab is also light-skinned, and much of Balochistan too. People who haven't been to Pakistan judge by only snapshots, they don't know that Pakistan itself is amazingly diverse.

We can have someone who looks Japanese and another who looks like Nordic person in the same family, our genetics are very diverse. In my family, we have high percent of people with brown and red hair, and green eyes too. Also men tend to be very tall in my khandan.

 

[Mithridates]

The Assads brainwashed an entire two to three generations of Syrians with these lies.

then why Syrian army is called Syrian Arab Army SAA??

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

then why Syrian army is called Syrian Arab Army SAA??

I never said they totally abandoned their identity or language, but Assad brainwashed them to think they were superior to other Arabs due to Phoenician blood.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

I see Iranian blessings are evident in Lebanon as they are in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Iran itself.

 

[Mithridates]

I never said they totally abandoned their identity or language, but Assad brainwashed them to think they were superior to other Arabs due to Phoenician blood.

pal come on, "we are superior to Arabs but we are Arabs"...