27 million out of schools

[Jango]

Awesome!

did you get a chance to ask the farmer, the black-smith, a carpenter, the mechanic, the tailor, the carpet-weaver as to "what kind of young workers would you need next year and how should our education system make sure we provide you with top quality workers".



did you get to ask the apprentices working with the farmer, the black-smith, a carpenter, the mechanic, the tailor, the carpet-weaver,

as to what do they really need to become top quality farmers, or black-smith, or carpenter, or mechanic, or tailor, or carpet-weaver?


peace

I didn't ask them about what they would need for their business, just what they would want for themselves...their children, their family.

Almost none of them wanted their children to go into schools above matric. They were wanting to tow them down towards farming, electrician etc. Maybe it's just because they couldn't afford it. There is one school in our village which is uptil 10th. FSc school is farther away and not many people send their children to study.

But the culture is slowly changing...now a University of Gujrat bus comes into our village, there are a fair few people there who are studying there, my uncle (PhD in economics from Wuhan university, China) teaches there. Alot of other skilled worker is also present.

Then the people next door sent their 2 children to university, one is a teacher in the local school.

So trends are changing, slowly but surely. But alot more needs to be done still.

BTW< the folks in my village are mostly farmers, some are IT workers and some do other small stuff.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@RiazHaq mere yaar we are not competing in this matter.. 27 million is a worrying number.. Its the future of your country.. Do not bring d**k measuring contest here..

Yah Seiko,

Forget about Riaz bhai for a moment. please.


I have a question for you.


Can you help explain just one thing.

How come almost all of the indian posters on this thread are posting negative comments.

How come?


Off all the threads, indian posters should be extremely careful about posting on a thread about "education".


There will be 100s of silent Pakistanis watching you guys expressing your fine opinion about Pakistan.

And if

they all see that Indian education has produced mostly those who are negatively biased against Pakistan.

They will not take home a good impression about India or Indian education.

Is that the "real" intent of educated Indians.


Is that so?


Is it the result of INdian education that Pakistanis (the sons of soil in Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, and KP) will always reamin Maleechas in the eyes of majority Indians.

Is that so?

will we always be the "drunk druggi good for nothing cousin"?

Is there any hope for improvement of views and stereotypes?

As I said earlier, 27 mil kids are not out on the streets, hungry, and selling drugs. They are in some sort of training system. perhaps car-mechanic, perhaps tailoring, perhaps famer, perhaps carpentars. But most of the Indian posters refuse, utterly refuse to see the light. Why?

peace

 

[FaujHistorian]

I didn't ask them about what they would need for their business, just what they would want for themselves...their children, their family.

Almost none of them wanted their children to go into schools above matric. They were wanting to tow them down towards farming, electrician etc. Maybe it's just because they couldn't afford it. There is one school in our village which is uptil 10th. FSc school is farther away and not many people send their children to study.

But the culture is slowly changing...now a University of Gujrat bus comes into our village, there are a fair few people there who are studying there, my uncle (PhD in economics from Wuhan university, China) teaches there. Alot of other skilled worker is also present.

Then the people next door sent their 2 children to university, one is a teacher in the local school.

So trends are changing, slowly but surely. But alot more needs to be done still.

BTW< the folks in my village are mostly farmers, some are IT workers and some do other small stuff.

Thanks for sharing.

I didn't ask them about what they would need for their business, j.....f.

This is the most important question to ask.

Schooling for the sake of schooling is OK but it won't help our beautiful country to progress at a faster rate.



We must ask our cottage industry owners, our entrepreneurs, we must take them into confidence.

as to what are their needs. Then we ought to make sure we supply young workers who can "hit the ground running".


Learn from the bad experience in Karachi.

We produced too many baboos.


And now they all want peon and clerk jobs paid by the tax payers.


While all the technical jobs are being filled by untrained workers from the North.



Remember

Schooling for the sake of schooling is just waste of money and precious resources.


peace

 

[RiazHaq]

Yah Seiko,

Forget about Riaz bhai for a moment. please.


I have a question for you.


Can you help explain just one thing.

How come almost all of the indian posters on this thread are posting negative comments.

How come?


Off all the threads, indian posters should be extremely careful about posting on a thread about "education".


There will be 100s of silent Pakistanis watching you guys expressing your fine opinion about Pakistan.

And if

they all see that Indian education has produced mostly those who are negatively biased against Pakistan.


peace

India has the dubious distinction of being among the top ten on two very different lists: It ranks at the top of the nations of the world with its 270 million illiterate adults, the largest in the world, as detailed by a just released UNESCO report on education; India also shows up at number four in military spending in terms of purchasing power parity, behind United States, China and Russia.

Haq's Musings: India Tops in Illiteracy and Defense Spending

As to Pakistan's 27 million out-of-school children in the story, they are ALL pre-school kids age 3-5 years and most will enter school at the age of 5+ as shown by the graphic below:

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan

 

[MilSpec]

I think, education on all levels, primary secondary, high school and colleges run by the government should be made completely free in all developing countries. That will be a big help for the youth to be able to afford education.

 

[Bobby]

aby CH not all will be terrorists but i count 10% of them will be extremist . saaly school jaty nhi or mujhy sikhaty hain

CH ..what is CH

India has the dubious distinction of being among the top ten on two very different lists: It ranks at the top of the nations of the world with its 270 million illiterate adults, the largest in the world, as detailed by a just released UNESCO report on education; India also shows up at number four in military spending in terms of purchasing power parity, behind United States, China and Russia.

Haq's Musings: India Tops in Illiteracy and Defense Spending

As to Pakistan's 27 million out-of-school children in the story, they are ALL pre-school kids age 3-5 years and most will enter school at the age of 5+ as shown by the graphic below:

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan

I dont believe some Haq's 10 years old data....give some authentic data

 

[RiazHaq]

CH ..what is CH



I dont believe some Haq's 10 years old data....give some authentic data

So you think India has a massive adult education program that has educated most of the 270 million illiterate adults since 2004?

Just think about it!!

Please also note that the percentage of 3-5 yr old children expected to enter school is much higher in Pakistan than in India.

 

[INDIC]

So you think India has a massive adult education program that has educated most of the 270 million illiterate adults since 2004?

Just think about it!!

Please also note that the percentage of 3-5 yr old children expected to enter school is much higher in Pakistan than in India.

I noticed, you have no idea about it. Compare it with the population size of both countries- India and Pakistan, you know the dismal situation of education in Pakistan.

Children out of school - primary

Children out of School

Pakistan: 5.44 million 2011 (Population 180 million)
India : 2.28 million 2008(Population 1.21 Billion)

 

[Azazel]

India has the dubious distinction of being among the top ten on two very different lists: It ranks at the top of the nations of the world with its 270 million illiterate adults, the largest in the world, as detailed by a just released UNESCO report on education; India also shows up at number four in military spending in terms of purchasing power parity, behind United States, China and Russia.

Haq's Musings: India Tops in Illiteracy and Defense Spending

As to Pakistan's 27 million out-of-school children in the story, they are ALL pre-school kids age 3-5 years and most will enter school at the age of 5+ as shown by the graphic below:

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan

Lies Lies more lies,Here is a world bank data.India even in 2008 had a 92% enrollment rate.While Pakistan even in 2011 it was just 72%.

School enrollment, primary (% net) | Data | Table

Here is another link Unicef.India well over 90% while Pakistan around 70%

Primary school participation, Net enrolment ratio (%), 2007-2010*, male
97
Primary school participation, Net enrolment ratio (%), 2007-2010*, female
94

UNICEF - India - Statistics

Primary school participation, Net enrolment ratio (%), 2007-2010*, male
72
Primary school participation, Net enrolment ratio (%), 2007-2010*, female
60

UNICEF - Pakistan - Statistics

Your claims are nothing more than wish full thinking.

 

[Not Sure]

Quick answer is "yes"


However it will be naive to think that all of them are on the street busy "castrating dogs". Running around selling hash and weed.


Oh bhai logo!

Majority of these kids are getting trained in the "informal" cottage industry.

We just need to organize this informal sector and it will take very little money.

British style "Formal schooling" is good for producing baboos, peons, clerks, and high end professionals.

We should have mixed this style with German style "Apprenticeship schools" years ago. But we did not.


Why?

Many of our baboos, and intellecutals who were trained in British style system, CAN NOT think beyond baboo-ism, and clerky.

These "Brahmins from British style education" tend to look down at anyone who works with his own two hands.

Sort of a throw back to the good old Shudra class treatment for anyone who does the "low-class" jobs of being a car-mechanic, carpenter, black smith, etc.

While a boy trained as car-mechanic is all set to earn his own livelihood at 18.

the British style educated boy is begging for more money when he is 18.


And yet the "Brahmins from British style education" look down at car-mechanic as a lowly "untouchable"

even when he is a productive citizen of the society.

And the same "Brahmins from British style education" makes someone a hero if he scores high on A-levels.


We must view education from the POV of a farmer, a black-smith, a carpenter, a mechanic, a tailor, a carpet-weaver.

We must ask them, hey "what kind of young workers would you need next year and how should our education system make sure we provide you with top quality workers".


But we won't.




"Brahmins from British style education" will continue cut-pasting useless statistics
"Brahmins from British style education" will continue making false promises to our kids


But pathetically worse, these ullu "Brahmins from British style education" will continue ignore the needs of a black-smith, a carpenter, a mechanic, a tailor, a carpet-weaver. as they happen to be just the good old shudras.

Just the good old untouchables.


Sadly.

Do you run a car garage? Or mend worn out shoes? Or do you even know how to work out a crop rotation to accrue some real benefits? My guess is you don't. You just stick around online to waste your time on something that won't fetch your nation or society a thing.

Let me tell you about India. There are two institutions, one is ITI, another is IIT. Those who beg for more money at 18 go to IIT and become high end engineers and help the nations (not just India) take great leaps forward while those who want to be employed by 19-20, go to ITI and come out in hoards earning bare minimum as carpenters, farmers, and car mechanics. Some of those from ITI actually do go to the gulf to work under inhuman conditions to make a little bit more.

So dude, before you even begin to talk crap about higher education (of which I too am a student), just know that if it were not for those who beg for more money to study when they are 18, there won't be any cars and tools around and then your mechanics and farmers and carpenters can go home and jerk off together.

Have a good night.

P.S. If it were not for what you call ullu type Brahmin style British education that takes many years and beyond the age of 18 and costs a fortune, even you won't know that a thing like computers and internet existed. But thankless, you are - as expected.

 

[Jango]

Thanks for sharing.




This is the most important question to ask.

Schooling for the sake of schooling is OK but it won't help our beautiful country to progress at a faster rate.



We must ask our cottage industry owners, our entrepreneurs, we must take them into confidence.

as to what are their needs. Then we ought to make sure we supply young workers who can "hit the ground running".


Learn from the bad experience in Karachi.

We produced too many baboos.


And now they all want peon and clerk jobs paid by the tax payers.


While all the technical jobs are being filled by untrained workers from the North.



Remember

Schooling for the sake of schooling is just waste of money and precious resources.


peace

I completely agree...expanding on your idea, one thing we forget is the folks who fail. They aren't complete numbskulls, they arent dunces, instead they alao have some ability.

What happens in our education system is that it doesn't cater to the need of the student. We just put a student who gets above 80 percent in Science group, others get into Arts etc. This isn't the way to go. Getting 80 percent doesn't mean you are a master in all things. A student who is very bright mentally might not be able to fit in the rote learning system we employ, hence he gets low grades and is regarded as a failure and slowly within 3 years or so he flunks out of school and gets into drugs or something like that.

His life gets ruined.

What needs to be done is cater to their specialties. For example, I have seen alot of children who are complete failures in school, they couldn't do a ratta on chemistry formulas or Maths equations or anything, but they are top level in computer stuff. Students who do not achieve in class should be adjusted somewhere.

If a student doesn't achieve, then after getting his guardian's consent, put him in some other program e.g a child who doesn't get maths or physics should instead be taught farming so he can help his father. The tag of educated or skilled will attach him and he will do something he knows due to his father. It's a win win situation.

Similarly, the son of a plumber should be taught plumbing if he doesn't achieve in Maths or physics...he would have a diploma to carry, will be a skilled guy with some knowledge etc.

NOt everybody is a complete idiot, everybody has some speciality, and that speciality need not be of Maths or Physics or a sin formula.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I didn't ask them about what they would need for their business, just what they would want for themselves...their children, their family.

Almost none of them wanted their children to go into schools above matric. They were wanting to tow them down towards farming, electrician etc. Maybe it's just because they couldn't afford it. There is one school in our village which is uptil 10th. FSc school is farther away and not many people send their children to study.

But the culture is slowly changing...now a University of Gujrat bus comes into our village, there are a fair few people there who are studying there, my uncle (PhD in economics from Wuhan university, China) teaches there. Alot of other skilled worker is also present.

Then the people next door sent their 2 children to university, one is a teacher in the local school.

So trends are changing, slowly but surely. But alot more needs to be done still.

BTW< the folks in my village are mostly farmers, some are IT workers and some do other small stuff.

That's how a revolution starts. You should be very proud of your uncle, it's people like them who lead it, trust me, we know:

and this village laborer- he's beter than all of us put together (I have no problem acceptinf that)

 

[Roybot]

So you think India has a massive adult education program that has educated most of the 270 million illiterate adults since 2004?

Just think about it!!

No but a lot of those illiterate adults have died in the past ten years, and replaced by literate youth. How else do you think that India's literacy rate has gone up from 64% in 2001 to 74% in 2011 ?

 

[RiazHaq]

Look carefully at the data.

The 50-78% out of school figures are for children age 3-5 years, the pre-school kids.

These drop to 7% (urban) and 23% (rural) out of school in the age groups 6-16 years which is still low but it represents progress.

Talking about progress, please note Barro-Lee dataset which says Pakistan has been increasing enrollment of students in schools at a faster rate since 1990 than India. In 1990, there were 66.2% of Pakistanis vs 51.6% of Indians who had no schooling. In 2000, there were 60.2% Pakistanis vs 43% Indians with no schooling. In 2010, Pakistan reduced it to 38% vs India's 32.7%.

Also look at the following graphic showing kids expected to enter school at age 5+

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan

 

[Imran Khan]

Ah ha.....ye sahi hai , jab galti pakdi jaaye to bahana bana lo

mamoo we count in millions or mujh se ghalti nhi hoi thi