26 shots that sent Pakistan over the edge

[JonAsad]

can somebody tell me what happend to the other body guards of Taseer? they apparantly didnt nothing and watched the assassination of Taseer, they are equally responsible as Qadri.

There was a post by one think thank on this, it was about the security protocols in case of an sudden attack. i cant find it right now...

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

But in India they have people who supports Narender Modi and elect him again and again.. after he brutally murdered/massacred-- practically committed genocide of not one but thousands of Innocent Muslims, and India is the land of Billions of people.

Now tell me why should we blame the Whole Pakistani Nation?

i was about to say the same ........ you took my words

 

[Karachiite]

I think you're exaggerating. Pakistani music is very popular in India. I doubt its possible to ban music.

 

[jayron]

But in India they have people who supports Narender Modi and elect him again and again.. after he brutally murdered/massacred-- practically committed genocide of not one but thousands of Innocent Muslims, and India is the land of Billions of people.

Now tell me why should we blame the Whole Pakistani Nation?

Oh cut the cr@p already! Believe me, Congress the party in central government wouldn't want anything more than proving him guilty and branding BJP as Hindu terrorists. They haven't been able to prove a single case against him and he is winning one election after other including muslim constituencies!

Come up with something else.

 

[thinkingcap81]

The biggest problem Pakistan faces is the loss of confidence amongst its youth --- at least that is my view.

I've been visiting this forum for almost two years --- this time coincides with Pakistan seemingly sliding down, inexorably. things do not seem to be working right. This, i believe has taken a tremendous toll on the self-belief of the people of Pakistan.

We have trolls on both sides, or rather three sides since the Chinese members are on the rise. All trolls or those who are aggressive in a certain negative sense are abominable and serve only the raise the heckles of the saner members.

But there is something important underlying the behaviour of members of different nationalities of this forum --- and that is the sense of what destiny has in store for them.

The Chinese guys are pretty amazing. Trolls or otherwise, they truly believe that their time under the sun has come. No power on earth can stop them. Just a matter of time before they tower above all else --- a couple of decades at the most. Quite possible or rather almost true going by present trends.

The next in line are the Indians. We believe that the shackles have been finally broken and our country is certainly one to watch out for. As our honourable prime minister Dr. Manmonan Singh had once said in his previous avatar as our finance minister in the P. V. Narasimha Rao government --- "No power on Earth can stop an idea whose time has come". We certainly believe in that.

Nevertheless the confidence level shown by Indians is inferior to the Chinese. In fact i'd go to the extent of saying that the younger ones --- those between 15 - 20 years are far more confident than i and my friends were at that age --- that was 10 - 15 years back. I refuse to dismiss that as simply youthful fervour. These young guys had a large part of their formative years post 2000 when the world began to say that India will make it big and we seem to be on track to do so.

Contrast that with many Pakistanis. Please do not get me wrong --- but besides the bravado displayed by many of the members, there is deep resentment --- and anger towards many --- US, India, the politicians and even the army. The only positive attitude is towards China. China is seen as a beacon of hope --- more their own country. Even some moderators cling on the the idea of the 21st century China.

This is quite depressing. In fact i do get this feeling from quite a few of the previous generation of Indians when India was termed as the 'bread-basket', population problems, low economic growth, too much internal disturbances and so on. And neither was India very prosperous nor displayed hope.

Please, i mean no disrespect towards my elders for there are lots of pitfalls of present-day adoption of everything Western. But when i see these young Indians i am filled with hope --- India is in safe hands.

Notice the large number of depressing articles coming from the Pakistani news media. Negativity breeds negativity and sucks the life blood away. One ignores the impact of the present situation on young impressionable minds at their own risk. This is what the present powers that be in Pakistan need to realize. They cannot pursue their own dreams and ideas without understanding the consequences. Youth takes the country forward as these are the people who will set the agenda for 15 - 20 years when they join the workforce in whatever capacity.

Five more years of this kind of a besieged mentality will take its toll on Pakistan. All stakeholders need to realize this.

 

[deckingraj]

SMC this is pakistan's internal matter and that's why i chose not to get involved but your post made me feel a bit uncomfortable. Since i have been on this forum from quite some time i do know a bit about individual posters. I know in most of our discussions we have been on opposite side but i also know that you atleast try to express your opinions with some logic, they are not empty statements...Anyhow i am writing all this in length so that i can show you some glaring issues in what you have written...My advice do ponder our them and just don't ignore it thinking somone writing this from across the border out of sheer hatred

Here's my take on this issue. It will probably neither be popular both with the fundoos or the liberal, but I feel it's the best approach at this time.

You can't be more wrong on the boded part

I don't agree with blasphemy laws at all. I think they need to go.

Agreement....

The problem is that there's too much support for them right now, and there are more important problems we need to look at.

First part i totally agree but the second part is very disturbing. I will give you examples from India because any mention of Pakistan might arose patriotism defying logic and that will not deliver the message that i want to deliver.

I am sure you would have heard about terms called saffron terror in India. Such terms were unheard off a decade back. There was no such thing called saffron terror in India. However things just did not change one fine day. The process started gradually. Hooligans disrupting/banning celebrations of Valentines Day and other such things were criticized but not in the manner they should be. Vote bank politics never let the consecutive govt. deal with the issue with iron hand since they seemed to be very pity. This boldened certain organizations further and they appointed themselves as the guardian of Indian culture. Then comes a horrific incident when few ladies were forcibly dragged and thrown out of a bar in banglaore. This was shocking and thnakfully our media jumped in with all guns....The whole nation was unequivocal in condemning the mad act...Result even though state govt would not have liked to they had to act against them. Result : A clear message was given, don't do this BS again. Will this stop the such stupid actions forever, heck no..we too have enough nuts on our sides to keep on doing the usual BS...but will they be under even more pressure while doing anything like that - definitely yes.

Now let's talk about the bombings that are alleged to master mind of hindu terror. Who did the we still don't know but circumstancial evidence clearly puts fingers on so called saffron terror. Again our media and sheer luck helped India here. There were hundreds of debates where this issue was discussed and common man simply rejected the notion. They don't support the so called saffron brigade. Leaders of so-called groups appeared on TV and condemn the attacks(obviously they don't admit that they have dont it but condemn those attacks)....Moreover congress another major party find a great politial gain in cornering BJP on this issue. This is what i mean by sheer luck. In other words there is no reason for other political parties to leverage any support for so called saffron brigade. Even BJP is in catch 22 situation. Investigations are going on about who did the bombings and congress party will do whatever it takes to bring the culprits out. This will put BJP on back foot and help their cause.

You must be wondering why the hell i am feeding you stories. The key here is public support. The co-called notion of Saffron Terror is rejected in India. The point is not how many support it or how many reject it. The point is those who reject it are stronger that those who accept it. This is where i find a stark difference in Pakistan. I am pretty sure that there is a minority who support assassiantion of Taseer but unfortunately this minority is very strong. A weak central govt. who backed away from some key initiatives, which were important economically, just to save the govt. is more like to skirt the trouble than face it head on. Army who is already busy in tackling the menace will not like to increase the trouble by getting their hands dirty. what does that imply - Qadri who has already become a hero within this so-called minority will remain like this. Even that to me is not that big of a deal but what follows next definitely is. It will be a disaster if Qadri become a role-model and people try to emulate him. Fanatics will cash on this opportunity and that will be very bad news for more liberal Pakistan...

So my dear friend saying that we will deal with this issue in 10 years or something like that is wishful thinking. You got to deal it with iron hand or else it is going to be very very difficult for liberal Pakistan to voice their concerns. You never know a quadri sitting their to shoot you and believe me you don't want that situation to come...

It's not a 'now or never' situation by any means. What we need to do is solve our main issues right now which are more important right now than this, such as Terrorism, economic growth, etc. Maybe some years down the roads when we have less issues to look at, we can look at this one.

You are right that you have to solve your main issue but this is also one of them. Such incidents if go unpunished will boost the number of recruits for the same terrorist whom you want to wipe out...

We had this law for a few decades now, and we didn't become an Afghanistan (and are not any closer to it) and we didn't collapse either because of the law. So it's not like having it for 10 more years will destroy us.

How many such shooting incidents have taken place in the past??? This issues needs to be debated in the pubic forum and Pakistan need to condemn it unitedly. This will give a stern message to all those qadri's - "Your actions are not welcomed, in fact condemned to its fullest".

Btw, I don't see how having this law makes Pakistan intolerant but having holocaust denial laws makes several countries in the world tolerant. A world of hypocrisy from many people on that. Those countries are not going to dogs either with those laws.

Not sure what you mean...so no comments...

 

[JonAsad]

Oh cut the cr@p already! Believe me, Congress the party in central government wouldn't want anything more than proving him guilty and branding BJP as Hindu terrorists.

What congress wants and what its not getting is totally for her political gains. Nothing out of sympathy for the Dead Muslims.

They haven't been able to prove a single case against him and he is winning one election after other including muslim constituencies!

I know, a case against a hindu, specially some one who has done such a great job for the greater cause of Bharat by killing thousands of muslims can never be proved in court. Its totally another thing if some day Modi decides to himslef confess to his crimes like Swami Aseemanand aka Naba Kumar Sarkar did.

About winning the elections, we all know how it goes-- so dont act naive.

 

[mehru]

useless insignificant arguments.
situation in Pakistan can never be resolved, unless people figure out what exactly the real problem is.
unfortunately, even the most liberal ones are actually deluded and not able to identify the root of the evil.

No we are not deluded. We understand the problem. Conservatives are part of our society and it's a mindset. It takes time to change that. With more education and dialogue, people will change. The moment people develop tolerance for religious discussion that will be the victory for liberals.

Pakistan is already facing much problems so civil war will not solve the problem. So that's why liberals will not pick up guns and noone is thinking that way.

Another problem is the world doesn't understand that religion is the most sensitive issue for Pakistanis. In other words they go to the extremes to defend it and that includes moderates as well. So yes Pakistanis are extremists when it comes to religion but other than that we have tolerance for a lot of things. Tolerance for religion will develop with time. Pakistan is not strictly an Islamic state and religious parties have never fared well in elections and they never will. Reason is this that they are biggest hypocrites. Even an uneducated Pakistani knows that.

For once give it a rest and that includes the international media. There is no liberal movement going on in Pakistan. No turmoil political or religious. No doom and gloom in Pakistan after Taseer murder. People have moved on.

If Qadri supporters carried out protests so did anti Qadri supporters. Fact is that the terrorist is in jail. He has confessed his crime and he will be punished for sure.

 

[Rafi]

^^^^^^^
Agree 110% Mehru, bro - the vast majority of Pakistanis believe in Islam - and also visit Shrines, admire the female form, and also enjoy the occasional joint or tipple. There is no crisis, people are still listening to music and life is still going on.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Nothing else matters to India except Pakistani nukes. That's the supreme concern.

u do realize that if the Taliban take over (which they wont) then nukes or no nukes they are marching east probably north east.......through Kashmir straight to the heart of ''The worlds largest democracy'', Delhi after that its a matter of time till the choke India to the brink of civil war and UN cease fires wont work because the Taliban don't have much to lose and Uncle Sam wont help because it has its own problems after that ''Welcome back to the stone ages baby''.....India will be just an extension of the battle field.......
Both Pakistan and India should hope the Taliban don't take over.....

 

[rohailmalhi]

We are on the edge for last million year and there are gizzillion prediction of Pakistan becuming unstable and going in the hands of Non-Muslim terrorists (funded and trained by sum one who care much abt fideling in to Pakistan's matters). but Alas we are here , We are reality .We have sum tough time and we are passing through it with courage and inshaallah we will be sucessful.
and One thing assassination of a governer dont change a thing , so stop going over the edge to just keep predicting things abt Pakistan.

 

[Ignited Mind]

u do realize that if the Taliban take over (which they wont) then nukes or no nukes they are marching east probably north east.......through Kashmir straight to the heart of ''The worlds largest democracy'', Delhi after that its a matter of time till the choke India to the brink of civil war and UN cease fires wont work because the Taliban don't have much to lose and Uncle Sam wont help because it has its own problems after that ''Welcome back to the stone ages baby''.....India will be just an extension of the battle field.......
Both Pakistan and India should hope the Taliban don't take over.....

We are not going to show civility to the talibs the way US does.

So don't worry, we're gonna bomb pretty much everybody who turns towards us.

You have no idea how evil we can get.

 

[The HBS Guy]

u do realize that if the Taliban take over (which they wont) then nukes or no nukes they are marching east probably north east.......through Kashmir straight to the heart of ''The worlds largest democracy'', Delhi after that its a matter of time till the choke India to the brink of civil war and UN cease fires wont work because the Taliban don't have much to lose and Uncle Sam wont help because it has its own problems after that ''Welcome back to the stone ages baby''.....India will be just an extension of the battle field.......
Both Pakistan and India should hope the Taliban don't take over.....

Someone's been watching too much of Zaid Hamid.

 

[Night Raven]

u do realize that if the Taliban take over (which they wont) then nukes or no nukes they are marching east probably north east.......through Kashmir straight to the heart of ''The worlds largest democracy'', Delhi after that its a matter of time till the choke India to the brink of civil war and UN cease fires wont work because the Taliban don't have much to lose and Uncle Sam wont help because it has its own problems after that ''Welcome back to the stone ages baby''.....India will be just an extension of the battle field.......
Both Pakistan and India should hope the Taliban don't take over.....

Time to wake up from your wet dream

Moment one Taliban numbhead crosses the border to India, he would be sent packing straight to hell ( sorry no heaven visits with virgins ) , without any remorse !

 

[justanobserver]

^^^^^^^
Agree 110% Mehru, bro - the vast majority of Pakistanis believe in Islam - and also visit Shrines, admire the female form, and also enjoy the occasional joint or tipple. There is no crisis, people are still listening to music and life is still going on.

has about 10% of people who are very conservative, 10% of people who are very liberal, that leaves about 80% in the middle, ie they pray regularly - but also check out chicks and listen to music, and also chill out.

We are the 80% that is Pakistan.

PS: last time I posted this, I told by that there is nothing wrong with the above findings