1st Upgraded Indian Mirage 2000 Flies

[kaykay]

3.6 billion for a bomb truck ? how much ordinance does mirage carry ?

Not to forget only Mirages and Jaguars are meant to carry Nuclear bombs. So its imp for us.

 

[Mritunjaya]

Not to forget only Mirages and Jaguars are meant to carry Nuclear bombs. So its imp for us.

That is where our whole range of missiles come in. Su 30 MKI carry nukes too.

 

[Iggy]

3.6 billion for a bomb truck ? how much ordinance does mirage carry ?

Its not only about the Bomb delivery, it also have sensors and other systems which will be vital for pilots incase of being under attack..

 

[rockstarIN]

So the deadly mica gonna arrive south asia soon...good news.... hope these platforms wil serve us 20 more years

 

[araz]

Since France has closed the production lines of Mirage2000, why can't we buy out the tech and manufacture the jet here with our own upgradations? It will be very good as a potent second line medium class multi-role fighter and will help us maintain our numbers at much lower costs. This machine is very reliable also.

Good thought. The French have about 59 M2K5s mothballed and they should be available in the short term while you iron out the Rafale deal. However for manufacturing the engine of the M2Ks is pretty old and theg are expensive to maintain. From the tech point of view as well it won't give you more than what your adversary has. It sould seem more logical to buy newer MKIs for about the same cost with better cost to capability outcome for you.
Araz

 

[rockstarIN]

Good thought. The French have about 59 M2K5s mothballed and they should be available in the short term while you iron out the Rafale deal. However for manufacturing the engine of the M2Ks is pretty old and theg are expensive to maintain. From the tech point of view as well it won't give you more than what your adversary has. It sould seem more logical to buy newer MKIs for about the same cost with better cost to capability outcome for you.
Araz

Yes, even this upgrade deal is an interim period for 15-20 years+ they do not want to waste the years of experience with this jet.

 

[MKI 30]

No doubt the upgrades are expensive. But do not forget the valuable experience our pilots have on the Mirage and this is one factor which made the IAF to go ahead with the upgrades.

Experience on the existing machine does count and and even the Air Chief said this is something he is not willing to giveaway.

 

[karan.1970]

No doubt the upgrades are expensive. But do not forget the valuable experience our pilots have on the Mirage and this is one factor which made the IAF to go ahead with the upgrades.

Experience on the existing machine does count and and even the Air Chief said this is something he is not willing to giveaway.

Do not forget the billions of dollars spent on Mirage 2000 infrastructure of IAF. By extending the life and capability of M2Ks IAF has increase the utilization of that infrastructure as well saving millions of dollars for IAF in the process. Not even counting the cost of thousands of hours of retraining of the pilots and ground crews if IAF would have retired M2K and replaced them with another plane..

 

[MKI 30]

Do not forget the billions of dollars spent on Mirage 2000 infrastructure of IAF. By extending the life and capability of M2Ks IAF has increase the utilization of that infrastructure as well saving millions of dollars for IAF in the process. Not even counting the cost of thousands of hours of retraining of the pilots and ground crews if IAF would have retired M2K and replaced them with another plane..

Exactly and its not as if the life being extended is for a short period. 20 years is by no means a short period and as you pointed out so much time and money has been invested in setting up infrastructure and training therefore it was the right decision to go forth with the deal. And also it played a crucial role for IAF in Kargil. And with these upgrades its only going to become more lethal at what it does best.

 

[Ayush]

welcome news

 

[Killswitch]

Im starting to think that India should have bought the Mirage line, built them here, and upgraded them with Israeli help. the MMRCA is taking FOREVER and Dassaults upgrades are a rip off.

 

[janon]

Since France has closed the production lines of Mirage2000, why can't we buy out the tech and manufacture the jet here with our own upgradations? It will be very good as a potent second line medium class multi-role fighter and will help us maintain our numbers at much lower costs. This machine is very reliable also.

That ship sailed long ago. When the MRCA requirement was first floated, Dassault offered to move the mirage production line lock, stock and barrel to India. This was in 2001. The MoD/IAF in all their wisdom, chose to go for a multi vendor selection process, as a consequence of which we still haven't inked the contract. Mirage production line was about to close, and the IAF was told that without firm, committed orders, it would have to be shut down forever. And that is precisely what happened.

If we had simply gone for mirage-2000-5s, we could have absorbed the technology easily, and finished production by now, retired all the mig-21s, and spent quite a lot more money on LCAs and additional MKIs. This would have meant a much more fighting fit IAF from 2008-2020, when 5th gen aircrafts begin to trickle in. We would also have cut down on the cost of new training and maintenance facilities and the time and money to train with a new fighter type. And we could have upgraded the 59 older mirages in house, thereby saving another couple of billion dollars.

 

[Dash]

That ship sailed long ago. When the MRCA requirement was first floated, Dassault offered to move the mirage production line lock, stock and barrel to India. This was in 2001. The MoD/IAF in all their wisdom, chose to go for a multi vendor selection process, as a consequence of which we still haven't inked the contract. Mirage production line was about to close, and the IAF was told that without firm, committed orders, it would have to be shut down forever. And that is precisely what happened.

If we had simply gone for mirage-2000-5s, we could have absorbed the technology easily, and finished production by now, retired all the mig-21s, and spent quite a lot more money on LCAs and additional MKIs. This would have meant a much more fighting fit IAF from 2008-2020, when 5th gen aircrafts begin to trickle in. We would also have cut down on the cost of new training and maintenance facilities and the time and money to train with a new fighter type. And we could have upgraded the 59 older mirages in house, thereby saving another couple of billion dollars.

Reproduction of Mirage in India offer was cancelled because the IAF wanted a diversified fighter with many enhancement that the Mirage was not able to provide. Like the AESA radar, an Eco friendly engine, supercruise and many other 4+ fighter requirements as you know was not available with Mirage.

If Mirage was able to provide everything then why did the French went for a new fighter development? buying Mirage would have helped the numbers and thats not what IAF wanted.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Reproduction of Mirage in India offer was cancelled because the IAF wanted a diversified fighter with many enhancement that the Mirage was not able to provide. Like the AESA radar, an Eco friendly engine, supercruise and many other 4+ fighter requirements as you know was not available with Mirage.

If Mirage was able to provide everything then why did the French went for a new fighter development? buying Mirage would have helped the numbers and thats not what IAF wanted.

so the numbers were not on IAF mind i guess it had to do more with kick backs than anything else and thats why IAF is dragging its feet on LCA by constantli changing the goal post for LCA but is happy to use aging MIG21/Flying coffins as a gap filler

 

[Dash]

so the numbers were not on IAF mind i guess it had to do more with kick backs than anything else and thats why IAF is dragging its feet on LCA by constantli changing the goal post for LCA but is happy to use aging MIG21/Flying coffins as a gap filler

In way yes. The depleting squadron is not the 'primary' concern for IAF as it comes second to capability. IAF believes more on quality of a machine than having many machines of low quality. And to be honest IAF has always has been respected for its quality over quantity strategy, be it fighters or fighter pilots.

However quantity is also important and we can unequivocally say that its high time IAF goes for numbers too. today our only hope is LCA which would be able to bridge that gap and it eventually will do so. But dont only blame IAF for its delay, there are other parties who are equally responsible for the mismanagement.
If you check on couple of tests that were conducted on LCA in recent past, you will easily get an idea that these tests are coming late for a fighter which took off to the sky a decade back. So you get a feeling that either the fighter was not upto the mark to make these tests on it or they simply delayed the tests for nothing...I would hold ADA accountable for these aided by IAFs requirement changes.