17 Militants Killed In PAF Strikes

[Argus Panoptes]

Because it was a militant hideout rather than a civilian settlement. If civilians are helping TTP in their hideouts then they should also be ready for consequences.

So I take it that you have no problem with such "collateral damage"?

Because the Pakistan Army is very.....very conscious of collateral damage & doesn't bomb anything till their eyes on the ground have cleared the area of any Civilian presence or so I'm told by our more 'in the loop' PDFefers !

I'm sure @Icarus & @Xeric can shed more light on this !

I will wait for them to provide more details on this incident.

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I find it hard to believe that our aerial targeting is any more accurate than those done by drones or that the Taliban have stopped using civilians as shields to hide behind all of a sudden. If we raise a hue and cry over innocent civilian deaths when USA pushes the button, we should be equally aware of any possible deaths caused by our own forces.

 

[Pandora]

So I take it that you have no problem with such "collateral damage"?

I am all up for protecting the innocent. The question is why would a hideout be located in a civilian area where they can easily be exposed. Most of the hideout are in caves and mountain and i cant think of any reason for civilians to be there. Protecting terrorists is also an act of terrorism.

 

[American Pakistani]

The question about building a fence also comes up from time to time. This is what Richard Hoagland, Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad, said last year: “Pakistan is a neighbor and a brother of Afghanistan. There is no way, ever, to separate the two. You cannot build a fence along the entire border and say no one will ever cross it. I have no doubt that Pakistan wants a stable, friendly and eventually prosperous Afghanistan. And I know from what officials have said, whether it is military … or civilian … that is where Pakistan is looking for the future.”

Ali Khan
DET, United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

Sir, The border will not separate two brothers but it will help Pakistani forces to hunt down terrorists on it's side with ease. Rite now if Pakistani forces launch any operation the terrorists fled to Afghanistan & then Pak Forces had no other option but to start shelling which causes some innocent civilians death also. I think the US should help Pakistan in this matter & use its influence on Afghan govt to start building a wall/or fencing the border.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I am all up for protecting the innocent. The question is why would a hideout be located in a civilian area where they can easily be exposed. Most of the hideout are in caves and mountain and i cant think of any reason for civilians to be there. Protecting terrorists is also an act of terrorism.

So if Taliban use civilians as shields by hiding among them, then you think that civilian casualties are okay?

 

[Windjammer]

So if Taliban use civilians as shields by hiding among them, then you think that civilian casualties are okay?

Under dedicated aerial bombing the only shield one could hope for is some hardened shelter or deep bunkers.
Civilian shield thus doesn't come into equation.

 

[Pandora]

So if Taliban use civilians as shields by hiding among them, then you think that civilian casualties are okay?

How would you react in the line of fire? Do you have any way out of it ? How can you even differentiate between an civilian and a TTP terrorist as they not a regular armed force. At the end of the day there are just so many people you can save.

 

[k!ng_0f_(~)3@rt$]

nothing will happen until the Pak-Afghan border is sealed. It is much needed i don't know why every govt just doesn't wanna do it.

Agree with you. pak-Afghan Border should seal and there should be proper posts along with complete border line. (Although it would be expensive bcz Pak Army will need to post more than 70K troops for this purpose)

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Under dedicated aerial bombing the only shield one could hope for is some hardened shelter or deep bunkers.
Civilian shield thus doesn't come into equation.

How would you react in the line of fire? Do you have any way out of it ? How can you even differentiate between an civilian and a TTP terrorist as they not a regular armed force. At the end of the day there are just so many people you can save.

So please explain to me how is what we are doing in FATA with aerial bombing any different than what USA is doing with their drone attacks?

 

[Pandora]

So please explain to me how is what we are doing in FATA with aerial bombing any different than what USA is doing with their drone attacks?

How do you know that actions taken by our armed forces are the same as US bombing. Our forces are fighting on the ground and are in need of aerial support from time to time. Can't believe that you are comparing operations carried out by our forces to drone attacks by US.

 

[Windjammer]

So please explain to me how is what we are doing in FATA with aerial bombing any different than what USA is doing with their drone attacks?

Unlike the Americans, PAF, doesn't have the resources for it's aircraft to loiter around for hours in the air for search and destroy missions. Only after a target or targets are confirmed by the ground observers/ field intelligence that a strike is called in.
Just to get an idea how PAF conducts it's missions against militants, the following article should give you a fair idea.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/236765-paf-prowess.html

 

[Argus Panoptes]

How do you know that actions taken by our armed forces are the same as US bombing. Our forces are fighting on the ground and are in need of aerial support from time to time. Can't believe that you are comparing operations carried out by our forces to drone attacks by US.

What is more unbelievable is the silence at this attack, without questioning the names, location, any other details, assuming that all were militants simply because we are being told so.

If we do not question the killing of our own people in our own land by our own armed forces, then who will?

We need these details for this and every other attack with mass casualties to make sure no innocents are being killed.

To remain silent would be criminal.

Unlike the Americans, PAF, doesn't have the resources for it's aircraft to loiter around for hours in the air for search and destroy missions. Only after a target or targets are confirmed by the ground observers/ field intelligence that a strike is called in.
Just to get an idea how PAF conducts it's missions against militants, the following article should give you a fair idea.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/236765-paf-prowess.html

That is a "feel good" story with very little bearing on the present incident. Are we to believe that every attack, and this one as well, by the PAF has zero chance of killing innocent civilians when we know that the Taliban are hiding among them?


Details are needed: just who were these 17 who were killed?


@Awesome @Icarus @Xeric @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @muse @ajpirzada @niaz Why the silence?

 

[Pandora]

What is more unbelievable is the silence at this attack, without questioning the names, location, any other details, assuming that all were militants simply because we are being told so.

If we do not question the killing of our own people in our own land by our own armed forces, then who will?

We need these details for this and every other attack with mass casualties to make sure no innocents are being killed.

To remain silent would be criminal.



That is a "feel good" story with very little bearing on the present incident. Are we to believe that every attack, and this one as well, by the PAF has zero chance of killing innocent civilians when we know that the Taliban are hiding among them?


Details are needed: just who were these 17 who were killed?


@Awesome @Icarus @Xeric @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @muse @ajpirzada @niaz Why the silence?

People should also be concerned with the silence over the deaths of civilians and armed forces by terrorists but people nowadays are more concerned with dead terrorists rather than their own people. If our armed forces started second guessing themselves while fighting a war then we already lost. A moment of hesitation on ground can be the death of a jawan.

 

[Xeric]

How are we sure that all 17 were indeed militants and that we did not kill any innocents as "collateral damage"?

And why do you doubt that those killed were not militants?

It's a stypud question. But then for the sake of it, i must tell you;

These are not drone attacks on a foreign territory, rather a bomb run on Pakistani (our own land).

The area where we operate is cleared of, either by announcements or by warnings. In either case, instead of taking the militants by surprise, we prefer to sacrifice it in favor on limiting collateral damage, which in turn makes it more difficult foe us and increase our casualties. We deliberately let go of the surprise factor by indirectly announcing about an operation e.g. all of the operation that we have done were discussed on news channels, newspapers, social media 3-6 months before they commenced. So everybody knew that we are going to torch the area very soon, so buckle up! Why? primarily because the locals can leave the area, whereby, any one still having the balls ti stay their probably has an issue with the Army and thus will face its wrath.

Collateral damage is the single most thing that can damage the repo, trust and efficiency of any force, and hence we re very touchy about it.

Lastly, the local leaders / jirgas are always taken into confidence before an operation is launched.

 

[Xeric]

What is more unbelievable is the silence at this attack, without questioning the names, location, any other details, assuming that all were militants simply because we are being told so.

If we do not question the killing of our own people in our own land by our own armed forces, then who will?

We need these details for this and every other attack with mass casualties to make sure no innocents are being killed.

To remain silent would be criminal.



That is a "feel good" story with very little bearing on the present incident. Are we to believe that every attack, and this one as well, by the PAF has zero chance of killing innocent civilians when we know that the Taliban are hiding among them?


Details are needed: just who were these 17 who were killed?


@Awesome @Icarus @Xeric @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @muse @ajpirzada @niaz Why the silence?

If the thickhead militants like BLA has the common sense and the capability to portray hardcore terrorist as college students and blame gaibana abduction ob the LEAs, these processional terrorists of the North are way ahead of them when it comes to propaganda. If you have any doubts, just visit YT.

Just a few days back i was surprised to see when i saw a video by Talibans where they were portraying themselves as heroes and angles by telling the viewers with so called video proof that see, we are not animals and we also are humane because we only target the ISAF and not ordinary civilians and we have even aborted attacks on convoys when we saw that civilians might we effected by the attack/blast. They even show clips where they tried to prove this. Now just see their propaganda machinery at work, and you think they would let go if civilians were killed in this attack?!

After all, you are not so bright , i guess.

 

[ajpirzada]

What is more unbelievable is the silence at this attack, without questioning the names, location, any other details, assuming that all were militants simply because we are being told so.

If we do not question the killing of our own people in our own land by our own armed forces, then who will?

We need these details for this and every other attack with mass casualties to make sure no innocents are being killed.

To remain silent would be criminal.



That is a "feel good" story with very little bearing on the present incident. Are we to believe that every attack, and this one as well, by the PAF has zero chance of killing innocent civilians when we know that the Taliban are hiding among them?


Details are needed: just who were these 17 who were killed?


@Awesome @Icarus @Xeric @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @muse @ajpirzada @niaz Why the silence?

that silence is bec of the ownership of the strikes. we expect our army to be more conscious when it comes to avoiding civilian causality. having seen the swat operation, im confident that the military is well equipped with regards to targeted strikes. this is not to say that the possibility of what you suggest does not exist.